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Old 08-17-2001, 12:24 PM   #1
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EXPLAIN TO ME WHY!!!!!

I can't understand why Ontario teachers would object to taking courses to upgrade their skills and ensure that their knowledge is up-to-date and to see to it that they have the proper skills to provide children with a solid education.

take a look at this article i just found;

TORONTO (CP) - Another Ontario teacher's union believes its members should ignore the province's new mandatory teacher-testing plan, despite government warnings refusal to comply could result in dismissal.
Earl Manners, head of the Ontario Secondary School Teachers Federation, said Thursday the province's 50,000 high school teachers should do nothing but wait for the controversial initiative to be scrapped.

"I think the teachers should just ignore it, do what's best in the classroom and carry on," he said in an interview.

"This too shall pass, like every other bad initiative of this government."

In June, Phyllis Benedict, head of the Elementary Teachers' Federation of Ontario, said her members would refuse to take the courses mandated under the controversial new program.

Ontario's teachers will soon be required to complete 14 professional learning courses - including a final test - over five-year cycles in order to maintain their certificates. It is believed to be the first mandatory teacher-testing program in Canada.

About 40,000 teachers will be randomly selected to begin the program this fall.

Manners said the five-year cycle means teachers can just wait it out until the end of the current government mandate. The provincial Tories will have to call an election within the next three years.

On Monday, Education Minister Janet Ecker said elementary teachers who did not take part in the recertification process would lose their certificates, and face dismissal.

Asked again on Thursday what would happen if all Ontario teachers refused to recertify, Ecker said she refused to believe that would happen.

"I would be very surprised if teachers . . . are going to stop doing things they know work for them," she told reporters at an event designed to showcase the benefits of professional development for teachers.

She added that teachers already consider professional development essential to their jobs. Making it mandatory would ensure the training is regular and consistent, she said.

The Ontario English Catholic Teachers Federation, which represents 34,000 teachers, said Thursday it is adopting a wait-and-see attitude.

Pointing out that the details of the plan have not been made clear to teachers, union president Kathy McVean said she is advising members to do nothing.

"At this time we're telling (teachers) not to take any more action on it," she said.

"Until we know what the rules of this game are, we won't respond."

With only weeks before Ontario's students return to school, Ecker tried Thursday to counter the negative reaction by teachers to her recertification plan by posing before the cameras with teachers who voluntarily upgrade their skills.

Teachers in the quiet library of St. Francis Xavier clapped as several colleagues posed critical questions to the minister, one even challenging Ecker to visit her classroom to see what dealing with dozens of four- and five-year-olds is like.

Heather Bonner, 23, who will be teaching her first kindergarten class in the fall said later she was unsure whether she would follow her union's instructions not to recertify.

"I think it's easy for (unions) to say (ignore it)," she said. "They're not in our position, they won't be losing a job or anything like that."

Bonner supports the idea of professional development and spent $160 to participate in the voluntary summer session.

She is critical of any plan that would take time from her students.

"I want to focus on my teaching in the classroom and providing the best education that I can for my students. I don't want to be doing courses on the side."

The Ontario government has not yet made it clear whether the courses will be made available during the school year and who will pay for them.
http://home-news.excite.ca/news/cp/0...er-union-wants

if someone can explain to me why its such a bad thing other than they do'nt want to write a test, which is total b.s. becuase , well why would they give out as many tests and idiot assignments as they do????????(that arn't part of the goverments new standers)

AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!MY EDUCATION DOWN THE DRAIN, last year I had 4/8 student teachers that DIDN't have a teaching degree!!! how many unqualified "teachers" will be showing me the path to life this year!!!!
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Old 08-17-2001, 02:08 PM   #2
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Ok, I'll offer some explanation.

1. Who is paying for this "voluntary" training? Are the teachers once again required to spend their own money upgrading their skills when they may or may not get paid for their new skills?
2. Lots of other jobs and professions pay more salary for more training. Will these teachers see an increase in their salary? Probably not.
3. The teachers are going to be "randomly selected" for this!? That means that the teachers have no say in whether or not they want or need the training. Would doctorsor other professionals stand for being randomly selected for additional training they may not need? Would you?
4. Will this training take place during the school year? Teachers work many hours after and before school, unpaid, to meet our professional responsibilities. Will these teachers need to attend class in the evenings, on their own time? Or will they be pulled from their classrooms, and then blamed for the poor performance of their students?

BLOCK, I don't have a problem with teachers being trained and certified to teach. I have a problem with poorly thought out programs dreamed up by idiot legislators who don't know the first thing about teaching and what a teacher's life is really like. I also have a problem with people who complain about teachers and teaching who believe what they read in the papers and don't bother to find out what's really going on. It sounds as if you have a problem with teachers because you don't like the assignments they give you. Fine, you're entitled to your opinion. It would be nice if you knew what the hell you were talking about.

Yes, I take it personally. I teach and I work my ass off for my students, whether they and their parents appreciate it or not.

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Old 08-17-2001, 04:47 PM   #3
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Thats all cool and everything but let me just go through what you said (the numbers...then the paragraph)

1-2. i think your rite, the teachers SHOULDNT pay for this crap, it's not what they want to do, and yes they should get a slight increase in pay after all they haven't (in ontario at least) received one in a while
3.from my understanding the "random" selection is just for the first "testing" period, and if i am mistaken then i disagree with the "random" selection of the program
4. alot of things arn't worked out yet, i don't think that the training should take place during the year(school year) and if the teachers have to give up some of their summer i believe that they SHOULD recieve some short of "bonus" or somehting for attending these becaue its taking up there time.


and in your responce that i don't know what time talking about, and the only reason i posted this was to bitch about getting work at school. Sorry, as much as you would like to believe that. It's not true. I'm fine with the work that i recieve at school, that has somehting to do with the subject that im learning! by stupid assignments i mean having to draw a freaking bristle board for math! or watching some dumbass movie and having to right a report on it in business(the movie had nothing to do with the course)


and finally, just becuase i do believe teachers have to be extraordinary people to be in that locked room with 30 or more students who want nothing to do with the material at hand. I do care about the stresses that you go though, and i agree that this proposal isn't well thoguht up...it has many holes in it, but, atleast to me. It makes sence to keep track of qualified teachers(trust me, you may be an amazying teacher but i've had some pretty waked out teachers before!!!!)
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Old 08-17-2001, 04:50 PM   #4
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p.s. sorry that i offended you, i feel bad about it. please accept my apology
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Old 08-17-2001, 04:56 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by BLOCK:
p.s. sorry that i offended you, i feel bad about it. please accept my apology
Apology accepted, BLOCK. You hit a nerve this morning. I apologize for getting nasty.

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Old 08-17-2001, 05:06 PM   #6
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no worries
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Old 08-17-2001, 10:48 PM   #7
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Well I couldn't agree with you more block, and I also believe that teachers should pass the tests. I have had many ignorant teachers that did such a poor job teaching me the material that I had done all of the learning on my own time. I believe most teachers, in Ontario (the only ones I have had experiance with) have lost the drive to actually help students. I believe that this could be attributed to the whole ideas Mike Harris brought into play, regardless I find it rediculous that teachers wont even consider taking the test.

I am also sick and tired of teachers actually thinking that they are superior to their pupils. I have been told by teachers such things as "you shouldn't be allowed to breed" now I dont know what you consider abuse martha, but in my book that is not healthy to a student's mental well-being. Most teachers dont even care for the students overall success, both in shcool and in life.

Now I'm not saying that there are no good teachers out there, but they are too few and far between to make an inpact on students. The whole education system in Ontario is going downhill, but it is not because of the changes imposed by Mike Harris, but because of the teachers inability to see past their own bloated ego, and to realise that teaching is not some sort of holy job. It is a job that like all others should be well done, and should like most other jobs have criteria that employees must meet. Take the tests, because after all if you know the material there should be nothing to worry about.

And please martha dont flame me for this... I am by no means saying you are a poor teacher, but the majority of teachers simply dont care any more
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Old 08-19-2001, 07:27 PM   #8
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Thank You Gcat for showing that I am not an isolated cast, infact you've just reminded me of a teacher that I had for my computer studies last year who called me TRASH because i disagreed with what she was saying. I guess she got so frustrated that i was right(which i was) that she just exploded, THen when she procceded to send me down to the office(like i was in 3rd grade or something) and i agreed and said i was sure the administration would be very interested in her choice of words she chased after me and tried to be my "friend", obvoulsy to save her own ass.

this is the kind of thing that myself and gcat go through everyday martha, and this is why we think that this new proposal is a good thing.
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