Even More Things Australian

[Vlad n U 2]

 

[cobl04]

TT ran a retraction after Media Watch. It went for THIRTY-FIVE seconds.

 

[cobl04]

Brilliant article on the lack of bilingual language teaching in the Northern Territory, by one of my journalism tutors.

Learning in both worlds | Inside Story

 

[Axver]

That's a great article.

I remember when I moved to Australia, I was stunned that there was no instruction in "Aboriginal". I had grown up in New Zealand, literally from my first week of primary school, with regular instruction in Maori - language, culture, mythology, local iwi history, all of it. And not in some urbane, sophisticated school, but just a regular little primary school in a semi-rural seaside town.

So when I was ten and arrived for my first day of school in Queensland, I was quite excited about learning "Aboriginal", not realising that there is a fantastic wealth of Aboriginal languages, rather than just one indigenous language as in New Zealand. I was baffled that there were no language lessons AT ALL, and that we wouldn't start on learning a second language (Japanese) until the next year in grade six. I never bought the excuse from some people that with such a range of Aboriginal languages, it was impossible to have a statewide curriculum - just teach the local language! Stop letting them be forgotten. Maori is fairly mainstream in New Zealand; the only time you see Aboriginal languages in Australia is in placenames that people poke fun at.

I regret not being able to continue with learning Maori. Now, most New Zealanders only speak English but they know snatches of Maori, and the country isn't as profoundly monolingual as Australia.

 

[Alisaura]

Does anyone know if any Australian taxes go towards the maintenance of the royal family?

Agree with most of what you folks are saying, but it's a process. Yes, any number of governments and/or monarchies and/or huge corporations could/should enact drastic sweeping changes, but none of them will. Not saying that makes it right.

(Not sure if anyone answered Cobbler's question about her husband not being King - she inherited the title, so he's stuck with being Prince consort or whatever.)

Curious - is Whitlam's dismissal by the GG considered a good or a bad thing in terms of the fix the government was in at the time? Yes, it was a horrible miscarraige of democracy, but would the same thing have happened, or should it have happened, if the head of state (which presumably would have such powers in any case) had been elected/appointed by the government/public?

 

[The Sad Punk]

I too would love to see local languages taught in more schools, but unfortunately it's easier said than done to get a fluent speaker available to teach, especially when so many languages are either extinct or were at least formally so. I have heard that some schools in Yorke Peninsula have started teaching Narangga/Atjadurah however, so if my old stomping backwater can do that, I think anywhere else sure as hell can.

 

[Axver]

Does anyone know if any Australian taxes go towards the maintenance of the royal family?

Bloody hope not.

Curious - is Whitlam's dismissal by the GG considered a good or a bad thing in terms of the fix the government was in at the time? Yes, it was a horrible miscarraige of democracy, but would the same thing have happened, or should it have happened, if the head of state (which presumably would have such powers in any case) had been elected/appointed by the government/public?

This is the thing, the Whitlam dismissal is so complex and controversial that it's really hard to say. I would suggest that Governor-General Kerr acted improperly and too soon. Would a President? The stakes would have been much higher for any elected head of state, as they would have been answerable to the electorate for the dismissal. Though that would've been the very same electorate that, in the ensuing December 1975 elections, resoundingly returned Malcolm Fraser.

 

[Axver]

I was going to start a Qantas lockout thread in FYM but maybe it'd be better discussed here. Alan Joyce has gone absolutely, completely mental. You have to wonder what the ulterior motive is, because this is going to kill Qantas's share price and customer base far more than the industrial action did. As somebody travelling soon - on Qantas! - I was a bit unhappy with the possibility of union strikes disrupting my plans, but that pales in comparison to Alan Joyce shutting the whole thing down. Better believe I'm backing the unions against him.

In any case, on what planet does Alan Joyce deserve to earn millions of dollars a year more than the pilots and mechanics who have the lives of thousands of people in their hands daily? My sympathy for the Occupy folks grows.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

My sympathy for the Occupy folks grows.

Is the Melbourne movement still going strong? I haven't heard about it in a few days.

(inb4 Cobbler with they are lazy hipsters who don't have jobs and are too lazy to get them)

 

[Axver]

They re-grouped at Treasury Gardens yesterday, then moved to some lane on RMIT's city campus. RMIT's aiming to evict them.

I reckon they should go and occupy Qantas's Melbourne offices.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

That'd be excellent.

 

[Alisaura]

I was going to start a Qantas lockout thread in FYM but maybe it'd be better discussed here. Alan Joyce has gone absolutely, completely mental. You have to wonder what the ulterior motive is, because this is going to kill Qantas's share price and customer base far more than the industrial action did. As somebody travelling soon - on Qantas! - I was a bit unhappy with the possibility of union strikes disrupting my plans, but that pales in comparison to Alan Joyce shutting the whole thing down. Better believe I'm backing the unions against him.

In any case, on what planet does Alan Joyce deserve to earn millions of dollars a year more than the pilots and mechanics who have the lives of thousands of people in their hands daily? My sympathy for the Occupy folks grows.

What the hell? I just saw the news about the grounding... is he playing chicken with the whole company as the stakes?!

There's another article on The Age site about how the pilots are saying he's gone mad too. I can't see him sticking around long whichever way this falls out.

 

[Axver]

Seriously, this is now just a childish game of who-blinks-first. I'm troubled by the calibre - or lack thereof - of some of the people who run our most powerful companies.

I think my forthcoming flight is run by Jetconnect, who aren't affected, so I should be in the clear. Bloody hope so. I almost booked with Virgin too!

 

[Alisaura]

Seriously, this is now just a childish game of who-blinks-first. I'm troubled by the calibre - or lack thereof - of some of the people who run our most powerful companies.

I think my forthcoming flight is run by Jetconnect, who aren't affected, so I should be in the clear. Bloody hope so. I almost booked with Virgin too!

I was going to ask if you guys were flying with Qantas! My housemates are flying in a few weeks too, not sure if they're with Qantas or not.

And I saw this on the Age site about Mr Joyce: "He said the easiest thing for him to do would have been to give in to union demands but that would not be in the long-term interests of the company."

Oh, cos he's not harming the short, medium, or long-term interests by doing this?!

Also, I hate how that Age page refreshes every 90 seconds and punts me back to the top of the screen. Grr.

 

[Axver]

Qantas has a vehemently anti-union leadership, so it doesn't surprise me that they aren't willing to compromise.

Amazing that they've gone and done this right now with all the traffic volume associated with Melbourne Cup. Just completely sprung it on the public. Tiger being grounded earlier this year hurt them hard, but at least they could present a public face that the inconvenience was never their intention. This? Public trust in Qantas is going to be shot to pieces.

 

[Alisaura]

Qantas has a vehemently anti-union leadership, so it doesn't surprise me that they aren't willing to compromise.

Amazing that they've gone and done this right now with all the traffic volume associated with Melbourne Cup. Just completely sprung it on the public. Tiger being grounded earlier this year hurt them hard, but at least they could present a public face that the inconvenience was never their intention. This? Public trust in Qantas is going to be shot to pieces.

It just seems like the dirtiest of dirty tactics, doing it this weekend especially.

The fact that Abbott's loving it only makes things worse. The Gillard government didn't need this at all.

I didn't know Tiger was associated with Qantas?


ETA: There's an ad for a getaway package to Uluru at the bottom of one of these Age articles... I wonder if the flights are with Qantas.

 

[Axver]

Tiger isn't associated with Qantas - I was comparing their ability to recover from being grounded to Qantas's.

If this has consequences for Gillard, that'll be pretty stupid because it's not as if the sitting government could've done much to stop this.

Incidentally, I reckon there should be a law requiring Alan Joyce and the rest of Qantas management to have to do duty on the desks at the airport and on the phones at call centres. It's unfair some poor sods at the bottom of the Qantas food chain have to cop all the shit as a result of senior management's decisions. At least the pilots had enough balls to state their case to passengers, which is something.

 

[Alisaura]

Ah right... I'm wondering how close Qantas is to following Ansett's footsteps, if their international service is supposedly losing $200 million a year. Can the domestic side really be taking in enough revenue to make up for it?

I agree it would be completely stupid, but that's the angle Abbott's going for and sadly a lot of people will probably buy it.

Sort of like compulsory Undercover Boss? I like it.

 

[Axver]

Charlotte says today's Hun seems pretty angry at Alan Joyce from the little she's seen, so that's interesting. The Age, of course, is covering practically nothing else.

The more I think about this, the more I find Joyce's behaviour reprehensible. The domestic pilots aren't involved in the ongoing industrial dispute, yet he's grounded the entire fleet. There are no exceptions - look at passengers trying to escape the risk of flooding in Bangkok, who surely have a case for the lockout being eased to fly them home. And think of all the other businesses affected. I don't just mean tourism either, though that's a big part of it. The economic ramifications are going to be huge if this drags on.

 

[Alisaura]

She didn't expect the Hun to take the part of downtrodden workers and angry passengers?

I really am wondering about Joyce's mental health, all jokes aside... or ulterior motives, as you say. Has he bought a load of Virgin Blue shares lately? Is this an attempt to have Qantas move out of Australia entirely? It just doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, there's all the catering and fuel and god knows what else that's ground to a halt. It sounds like the poor sods in the call centres are the only ones still assured of being needed.

 

[Axver]

I'd expect the Hun to be praising Joyce for standing up to "union thuggery" rather than showing any anger towards him!

There's a conspiracy theory that Joyce is intentionally trashing Qantas so that more of the business can be operated offshore and subsumed by Jetstar. I wouldn't know enough to comment on whether that's just fearmongering or might have a basis in fact. Where's Ian when you need him?

Apparently Qantas staff at the airports have been given a whole $10 meal voucher by Qantas as thanks for coping with the extra demand and putting in more hours. HOW GENEROUS.

And it looks like some world leaders have been caught up in this too, stranded in Perth after CHOGM! Woops. Shame the Queen doesn't fly Qantas.

 

[Alisaura]

I guess if the union had staged a massive strike rather than Joyce grounding the fleet, the Hun's ire would be directed the other way... I suppose a lot of their readers are among the stranded passengers.

I saw something about that too, probably from the Pilots' Association... it's hard to think of another (semi-logical) reason for making such an idiotic move.

$10 would hardly buy you a sweaty hot dog at most airports! That's pathetic. Qantas isn't doing much to convince staff that they give a rat's arse about them.

Oh dear... I'm a little surprised that these world leaders were flying a commercial airline and don't all have private jets... maybe they'll be buying some after this!

And maybe the Queen should have given some of them a lift in her plane... *L*

 

[Axver]

Seriously, if I were copping thousands of irate customers, I'd bloody well want more than just a $10 meal voucher as a sign of Qantas's gratitude. I'd probably just up and leave. It's good enough for senior management!

They haven't named the leaders, though rumour is one of them is the PM of the Solomon Islands. Stands to reason that the stranded dignitaries are those of poorer countries who can't afford a presidential or prime ministerial aircraft.

Apparently Gillard ousted her personal entourage from her private jet so that it could accommodate other government ministers who needed to get back to Canberra and had been booked on Qantas.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

The international arm of Qantas is properly in the shits and it's future is really grim. On paper, I'm with Qantas Corporate on this - the unions are in the wrong. But in reality, they're behaving terribly and this grounding is mad. As a chess move vs the unions it might be brilliant, but it's a PR disaster that they will take a long, long time to recover from, if ever.

I'm just thankful for the existence of code sharing. I'm flying to Bangkok in a couple of days, was booked via Qantas, but luckily it just happens to be a BA flight. I'm sure they'll be back in the air by then (tomorrow, probably) but I bet it's all a shitfight for a few days, delays and getting bumped and whatnot.

 

[Axver]

Given the pay rise requested by the regular workers - who have thousands of lives in their hands daily - is a pittance compared to the salary and recent raise of Alan Joyce - who has nobody's life in his hands ever - I really can't go for Qantas Corporate even if the international arm is up shit creek. Now if Alan Joyce was willing to show that he values the people on the front lines who keep his airline operational and safe, then I might not be inclined to think he's a complete lunatic.

On a different note, but to pick up a common theme of this thread, you know Aussie media's fucked when even Ray Martin is lamenting things: TV is making me angry, says 60 Minutes journalist Ray Martin | News.com.au

 

[intedomine]

It might be more a conditions-related dispute as opposed to a pay-dispute. Maybe, given the pay/conditions of employees working for other airlines, Qantas employees are possibly working under too much duress/stress comparative to their pay. If employees of Qantas are expected to work to this level, they feel they should be compensated by wage increases. To just say, "union thuggery" cripples tourism in Australia, as I anticipate the Murdoch Media to do so, they'll just focus on the want of a pay rise (given that Qantas are apparently already paid more than Virgin employees) as opposed to the conditions of work.

And why were Channel Seven blaming Julia Gillard for the dispute?

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Yeah, I definitely disagree with the way they (Qantas) have gone about it, in every way. But in regards to what the airline does need to do to survive (or at least, survive as an international carrier), they need to go off-shore. Sure that sucks, both for the company and for the workers, but it's their reality.

 

[cobl04]

Gotta side with Occupy on this one. Read his pay rise was 71% compared to 4% for other workers. Unbelievable. Agreed on him having to work the phones or check-ins.

I'm also surprised to read ax and inte think the Hun would side with Qantas... have you not seen how they've covered every airport grounding ever? They always go to the people. It might clash with their opinion on Occupy but they'd never side with Joyce.

(Not sure if anyone answered Cobbler's question about her husband not being King - she inherited the title, so he's stuck with being Prince consort or whatever.)

Does this mean there can never be a king and a queen at the same time?

 

[Axver]

I'm also surprised to read ax and inte think the Hun would side with Qantas... have you not seen how they've covered every airport grounding ever? They always go to the people. It might clash with their opinion on Occupy but they'd never side with Joyce.

Because they're big business shills who hate the unions? Any chance to slag off the unions, they usually take.

 

[cobl04]

However the fiasco almost prevented Kings of Leon from touring. If they'd had to cancel I think Joyce would deserve another pay rise.