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Old 12-25-2006, 08:21 PM   #16
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After all this may be said , European clubs have the best players , coz they are the richest of the world , but still in 2 years in a role , European teams lost for 2 brazilians ......

Specially shocking was this year All Mighty Barca losing for Ronaldinho's arc rival city team
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Old 12-26-2006, 01:51 AM   #17
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That's a great list, jim! How did you come up with the sliding scale (weight, etc), and what was the measurement? The husband is very curious. He likes it, though, with Liverpool no. 7!
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Old 12-26-2006, 02:12 AM   #18
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Old 12-26-2006, 04:33 AM   #19
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Angela Harlem
That's a great list, jim! How did you come up with the sliding scale (weight, etc), and what was the measurement? The husband is very curious. He likes it, though, with Liverpool no. 7! [/QUOTE

Points for success in European competition was exactly the same for teams from all countries, as was the amount deducted for failure to qualify, & failure to progress upto the 1/4 finals, reaching the 1/4 finals & beyond gained more points as each team progressed in each competition, although more points were awarded for progress, & success in the Euro Cup/Champions League, than the Fairs Cup/UEFA Cup, & Cup Winners Cup, domestically English, German, Italian, & Spanish clubs were awarded more points for success than teams from any other country, firstly, because these nations have proved to be far more successful in Europe than all others, and secondly, despite domination from teams such as Real Madrid, & Barca in Spain, Juve,& AC Milan In Italy, Bayern in Germany,& Liverpool, Arse, & Man Utd in England, these countries Championships, especially England's, & Germany's have proved more competitive than any others, in terms of amount of DIFFERENT clubs who've won those domestic Leagues, 28 in Germany, & 23 in England, compare that to say Portugal, or Holland, 2 nations whose clubs have great Euro traditions, but in Portugal of 85 title races, 3 clubs have shared 77 between them, Holland from 108 titles, 4 clubs have shared 70 titles, so, as most " experts" believe the four strongest nations in Europe, Eng, It., Spain, & Germ, earn more points for domestic success than others, then nations such as Portugal, Holland, etc, fewer points, down to nations such as Sweden, Turkey etc. nations with Euro success, but least amount of different teams succeeding in Euro. ie, if only one team from any nation has proved to be successful in Europe, it could be fair to say they might not struggle to succeed domestically, as, say Real, or Barca in Spain, Bayern in Germany, etc, ah I hear you say, they are the most successful teams in their respective countries though, yes they are, and because they are in more compettive leagues so they gain more points for success!
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Old 01-06-2007, 09:00 AM   #20
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Just a little update of the European competitions:


EUROPEAN SUCCESS BY EACH NATION, UP TO & INCLUDING 2005/06

THE INTER CITY FAIRS CUP/UEFA CUP


CUPS AMOUNT
OF CLUBS
1. ENGLAND 10 6
2. ITALY 10 5
3. SPAIN 10 5
4. GERMANY 6 5
5. HOLLAND 4 3
6. SWEDEN 2 1
7. BELGIUM 1 1
7. HUNGARY 1 1
7. POR'GAL 1 1
7. TURKEY 1 1
7. YUGOSLAVIA 1 1
7. RUSSIA 1 1


THE EUROPEAN CUP WINNERS CUP

1. ENGLAND 8 7
2. ITALY 7 6
3. SPAIN 7 4
4. GERMANY 5 5
5. BELGIUM 3 2
5. SOVIET UNION 3 2
7. SCOTLAND 2 2
8. CZECHOSLOVAKIA 1 1
8. FRANCE 1 1
8. HOLLAND 1 1
8. PORTUGAL 1 1


THE EUROPEAN CUP/ CHAMPIONS LEAGUE

1. SPAIN 11 2
2. ENGLAND 10 4
3. ITALY 10 3
4. GERMANY 6 3
4.. HOLLAND 6 3
6. PORTUGAL 4 2
7. FRANCE 1 1
7. ROMANIA 1 1
7. SCOTLAND 1 1
7. YUGOSLAVIA 1 1

OVERALL EUROPEAN SUCCESS, TOTAL BY EACH NATION UP TO 2003/04.



TOTAL
CUPS CLUBS
1. ENGLAND 28 13
2. SPAIN 28 6
3. ITALY 27 9
4. GERMANY 17 9
5. HOLLAND 11 3
6. PORTUGAL 6 3
7. BELGIUM 4 2
8. SCOTLAND 3 3
8. SOVIET UNION 3 2
10. FRANCE 2 2
10. SWEDEN 2 1
11. ROMANIA 1 1
12. CZECHOSLOVAKIA 1 1
12. HUNGARY 1 1
12. TURKEY 1 1


The overall success table, makes Platini's view that France are as deserving of as many places in the C/L as England look a bit shoddy, and not well researched on his behalf!
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Old 01-06-2007, 09:02 AM   #21
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[

OVERALL EUROPEAN SUCCESS, TOTAL BY EACH NATION UP TO 2003/04.



[/B][/QUOTE]

Should read 2005/06
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Old 01-06-2007, 10:15 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by jimmmm


The overall success table, makes Platini's view that France are as deserving of as many places in the C/L as England look a bit shoddy, and not well researched on his behalf!
Is that what he says? Although i do agree with his policy that there should be less than four places up for grabs in england, spain and italy. 2-3 maybe but 4 is stupid. Thre could be a gap of 20-30 points between the champions of that certain league and the 4th place finisher and that is too big to warrant a champions league place IMO.
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Old 01-06-2007, 12:17 PM   #23
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I saw an interview with him on Euronews, few weeks back, the inference was 4 clubs from any country was too much, but unless the interpreter changed his words, England was the only country he mentioned by name, sometimes its hard to follow when people are talking in their native tongue, & an interpreter is voicing over, but I heard Platini mention Angleterre, my French isn't the best in the world, but I'm sure thats French for England.
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Old 01-07-2007, 01:32 PM   #24
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Champions League should only be for the top place team ONLY. Otherwise the term "Champions" League is useless. It's just a competition to keep all the big boys happy.

... I will of course change my tune should my rabble nick fourth place this season!
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Old 01-07-2007, 07:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by jimmmm
The overall success table, makes Platini's view that France are as deserving of as many places in the C/L as England look a bit shoddy, and not well researched on his behalf!
The purpose is to give more tickets for the CL to clubs from nations like Georgia, Slovenia, etc, not to oppress the poor persecuted England.
4 clubs by nation is too much.
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Old 01-20-2007, 01:54 PM   #26
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So, you, like Platini think the competition would be enhanced with more clubs from those countries in at the expense of some of the best clubs from Eng, Spain, Italy, & Germany then, strange considering the champs from those 2 countries failed miserably to get beyond the 2nd Qual. round, Sioni Bolnisi where demolished 4-0, & ND Gorica went 1 better by getting trounced 5-0 at the same stage, it would be embarrassing watching some of the mis-matches that would occur if more of those clubs were allowed in, at the expense of clubs like Arse, Liverpool, Valencia, Inter, Schalke, Bremen,etc.etc.
Whether you like it or not the big clubs generate money from & for the sponsors, but more importantly they generate REAL interest & excitement in the competition.
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Old 01-20-2007, 06:41 PM   #27
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Yeah, they should make a Spanish.Italian/English league so you'll have Barca/Manchester, Arsenal/Real every week then.

Football was great because it was open to the entire Europe, i miss teams like Partizan, Red Star, Sparta Praha, Dinamo Kiev, etc. I loved the crap games played in Cyprus or Feroe Islands, it was charming, it was the true European Cup.

Now, Platini is clever, he is running elections :
Italy + England + Spain = 3 votes
Serbia + Poland + Slovenia + Georgia + etc = victory

You know what i mean ?
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Old 01-21-2007, 03:51 AM   #28
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You seem to be missing something, those nations clubs ARE in the competition, its just that by & large they're SO crap they don't make it to the group stage, so what on EARTH would be the point of reducing the # of Eng,Spa, Ita, & Ger, clubs to permit even worse teams from those nations to embarrass themselves even more, only the top 2 from the strongest nations go straight into the group stage, the 3rd & 4th teams both have to qualify, so whats the problem, You know, like I do, Platini can't stand to see more ENGLISH clubs in the competition than french!
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Old 01-21-2007, 06:40 AM   #29
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They are not really in the competition, they have to kill each others before having the honour for a couple of them to be invited to the final round.
If you like this system, good for you. And good for the sponsors.
But it's not good for poorer federations. And these federations get poorer and poorer every year. The CL is killing football in Northern, Central and Eastern Europe. If you exclude them a little bit more every year, Football will be like Rugby, an elite sport with 3/4 nations and nothing around them.

Don't be paranoid, Platini can't stand to see 4 clubs per nation.
He wants to suppress the "+" in "England has 2 + 2 clubs in CL" as well as in "France has 2 + 1 clubs in CL".
In his system, the top nations have 3 direct spots, the supression of the 4th spot gives more room to nations with a smaller UEFA ranking
Top nations will always have 1 or 2 more clubs than average nations, not 3 or 4.
Which means that France would have 2 clubs and England 3 clubs because of the UEFA ranking right now.
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Old 01-21-2007, 01:41 PM   #30
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Well, yeah actually I do like this system, so lets just agree to disagree.
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