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Old 06-04-2008, 12:50 AM   #16
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What did they do that was so wrong ? They scored the most goals. They allowed the fewest. They won the best game of the cup (semi vs. Germany) and didn't head butt anyone.

they won't this though. 2nd round maybe, that's about it. It helps that Cannavarro is gone though, he has been horrible since the world cup.

COBL = Australian

For that reason, Italy have done a lot wrong (or not so much Italy, but that wretched Ref).
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Old 06-04-2008, 12:53 AM   #17
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Did you ever see a Cruyff or Pele in their prime ? He's not even the best French player of all time.
Cruyff was incredible, though I've only seen clips and replays of classic Dutch matches.

The whole obsession with Pele is more about the legend than the player himself. Not doubting his quality, but the praise mounted upon him seems to be a little over the top considering from what I've seen of other Brazilian guns (Garrincha, Socrates, Ronaldinho).

Zidane > Platini

Maradona, Cruyff, Zidane > Pele

IMHO
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Old 06-04-2008, 03:36 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by toscano View Post
What did they do that was so wrong ? They scored the most goals. They allowed the fewest. They won the best game of the cup (semi vs. Germany) and didn't head butt anyone.

they won't this though. 2nd round maybe, that's about it. It helps that Cannavarro is gone though, he has been horrible since the world cup.
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COBL = Australian

For that reason, Italy have done a lot wrong (or not so much Italy, but that wretched Ref).
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:52 AM   #19
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COBL = Australian

For that reason, Italy have done a lot wrong (or not so much Italy, but that wretched Ref).
Starting with the bogus sending off...........
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:03 AM   #20
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Cruyff was incredible, though I've only seen clips and replays of classic Dutch matches.

The whole obsession with Pele is more about the legend than the player himself.
Did you see him play in his prime ? I did. Yes, unfortunately I'm that old. It was his latter top flight years (i.e, way before New York cosmos) but still he brought genius to the game which IMHO is surpassed only by Cruyff.

Socrates was excellent for a short while, Ronaldinho too, but nothing like the sustained level of excellence of the 15 years or so of Pele at the top of his game.



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Zidane > Platini.
No way, again, did you see Platini in his prime ?

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Maradona, Cruyff, Zidane > Pele
I'll only give you Cruyff on that one. Maradona was never consistent enough imho to warrant inclusion up there, but his 1986 goal against England I could watch forever and never tire of.

You can't judge these guys unless you've seen them play IMHO, and Idon't mean occasional clips, I mean entire tournaments, seasons over the years.

My Dad insists any "top 5" should include Puskas and Eusebio, but since I haven't actually seen much of them other than old TV clips I don't think i'm qualified to say.
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:12 AM   #21
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You can't judge these guys unless you've seen them play IMHO, and Idon't mean occasional clips, I mean entire tournaments, seasons over the years.

My Dad insists any "top 5" should include Puskas and Eusebio, but since I haven't actually seen much of them other than old TV clips I don't think i'm qualified to say.
Well, the best player for me is Zidane, no question about that. Clips I agree aren't enough to judge, and I'm Gen Y, so how am I supposed to say Pele is ahead of Zidane...

Puskas was supposed to be amazing, as was Russian keeper Lev Yashin, greatest of all time supposedly.
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Old 06-04-2008, 04:58 PM   #22
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Footie

When my bf told me Cannavaro would be out and Buffoon would be the new captain I said "Oh! Another diving Italian I suppose?" and he's like "er, I hope so"
(then I remembered who Buffoon was )

I, too, am gutted England is out but perhaps it's better that way to save them the embarrassment.

I'm rooting for France

Is Zidane still coaching some lower-league team in France?
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Old 06-05-2008, 09:41 AM   #23
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I'm rooting for France

yeah, I made that decision today too! -since people don't stop asking me
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Old 06-05-2008, 11:29 AM   #24
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Did you ever see a Cruyff or Pele in their prime ? He's not even the best French player of all time.

Never saw Pele in his prime, but saw Cruyff, & he was great as was Pele, Best, Maradona, Platini, Van Basten, & Gullitt, IMO, Zidane sits comfortably being compared to any of those.
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Old 06-05-2008, 11:31 AM   #25
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^ Anyway, WTF am I doing on this thread!!!!!
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Old 06-05-2008, 01:39 PM   #26
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well i'm 22 and Zidane is almost certainly the best player i've seen since i started watching football. Perhaps Ronaldo (Brazilian), Maldini and Schmeichel run him close but i think Zidane is a true all time great. I won't comment on older players like Cruyff and Pele because at my age i'm not qualified to.

anyway come on Holland! although sadly i'm worried they won't even make it out of their own group, let alone win the damn tournament...
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Old 06-05-2008, 03:09 PM   #27
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yeah, I made that decision today too! -since people don't stop asking me
Did you say you're supporting France? Aren't you German?
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Old 06-05-2008, 03:18 PM   #28
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Did you say you're supporting France? Aren't you German?
um, yes you're right but I just can't stand losing
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Old 06-05-2008, 03:19 PM   #29
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um, yes you're right but I just can't stand losing
How is the German team this time? I was hoping to support them, my all-time favorite!
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Old 06-05-2008, 03:37 PM   #30
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^mhh, I don't think that it changed that much from the world cup team. But actually there are new players, like two or three I think! & we have an easy group to play...if they start good, they can go far ( like they did in 2006)! Ballack seems to be in a very good condition, what means he can drang along the younger players! I think semifinal is quite possible!
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