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Old 03-02-2008, 07:33 AM   #391
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Quote:
Originally posted by No spoken words


Wow, you really do not know me at all.

Do I seem like that big of a dork, that I'd be out playing Magic: The Gathering?? I've never played that in my life. Duh. That's not how someone like me rolls on a Saturday night.

I was playing Dungeons and Dragons, fool.



If you must know, I was just at dinner with a few friends. Now I'm back.

actually you don't seem like the magic type, but when someone asked it was the first thing that popped into my head
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:33 AM   #392
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Quote:
Originally posted by Axver


I'd be interested in reading that essay. The Old Testament has been a source of vehement criticism for me. I'm a pacifist (actually, from my brief religious flirtation, the whole "do unto others" thing) and I find myself completely unable to accept the sanctified genocides and whatnot throughout the Old Testament. So much of the Mosaic law just reeks of cultural norms being imposed and justified too. Part of the reason why I gave Christianity the shaft is that I could not reconcile the two Testaments. Plus I think Paul was a bit of a dick, and the Gospels don't meet acceptable standards of scholarly reliability.
I don't actually like Paul. But I can't just pick and choose what books I accept and what books I don't, so I read it all regardless.

The genocides I struggle with too. WHY wipe out everyone? WHY THE HELL IS SAMSON A HERO? A lot of the time, it reeks of Israel using God to cover up for their crimes.

The problem with the Gospels is that they were around in oral tradition for ages before being written down, which screws with historical dating.
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:35 AM   #393
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Hey unico!
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:35 AM   #394
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Hey unico!
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:36 AM   #395
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Originally posted by phillyfan26


You and NSW are literally the only two.

PHAIL!!
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:36 AM   #396
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mornin fellas how goes it?

15'd
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:37 AM   #397
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Originally posted by unico
mornin fellas how goes it?

15'd


Pickachu!, smack that ass!
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:39 AM   #398
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Ax: I was wrong, it wasn't an entire essay unfortunately, but here's the important bit:

Quote:
Socio-Economic and Political Analysis

If it is presumed that the edicts in Deuteronomy were indeed written around the time of King Josiah, they are able to offer an excellent insight into the socio-economic and political status of Israel at the time they were written, as they reflect the various changes that were happening in the land at the time of Josiah’s reform.

Firstly, a reading of the story in 2 Kings suggests that the laws in Deuteronomy were put into effect all around the nation, with Josiah personally heading the movement to eradicate all traces of Israel’s previous idolatry and evil ways. Such a reform could only happen under dire circumstances – it suggests that Israel (or at least Judah) was facing a severe threat, and a consolidation of the king’s power was needed in order to allow him to unify and rule the kingdom. It suggests that the “discovery” of the book of law was in fact used to give Josiah divine backing in his quest to reform Israel – a purely political concern. However, the book does also reflect the economics of the land.

The commands in Deuteronomy 15.1-11 are that Israelites should drop all debts owed to them by other Israelites every seven years, and to be generous towards the poor and to help in eradicating poverty – “there should be no poor in the land”. This suggests that the kingdom was experiencing a time of economic success, so much so that it was able to focus on social justice rather than financial management. However, it does also suggest a degree of suspicion towards foreigners, for their debts are not required to be cancelled. The law also elicits a feeling of solidarity between Israelites – by having to drop one another’s debts, they are in a sense sharing their property with one another and so are one fellowship, one nation of brothers and sisters, rather than just compatriots.

All in all, the laws of Deuteronomy suggest that Israel, although experiencing a relative wealth and prosperity, was faced with significant threats from both inside and outside its borders and so needed to consolidate its power and unite its people under a single banner – that of Yahweh and, by association, King Josiah. In order to do this, reform was required, and so Josiah, who “before him there was no king like him... nor did any like him arise after him”, was the agent of the reform.

I can tell you, I wasn't a very popular person with a couple of the more evangelical spiritual types after reading that out loud in a study...
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:40 AM   #399
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so when is screwtape's birthday? i think we could all put some money together to get him the perfect present.

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/540076210.html
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:40 AM   #400
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Quote:
Originally posted by major_panic
I don't actually like Paul. But I can't just pick and choose what books I accept and what books I don't, so I read it all regardless.

The genocides I struggle with too. WHY wipe out everyone? WHY THE HELL IS SAMSON A HERO? A lot of the time, it reeks of Israel using God to cover up for their crimes.

The problem with the Gospels is that they were around in oral tradition for ages before being written down, which screws with historical dating.
Part of the reason why I finally quit Christianity is that I found I was carefully cobbling together just the bits I liked, to keep a veneer of Christianity in front of people I liked who I feared would disapprove of my reversion to disbelief. What was the point? There was none. I already thought the concept of a God was ridiculous and simply had the moral teachings, which I had always carefully legitimated with secular as well as religious arguments. So I ditched the theism.

Also, the problem you mention with regards to the Gospels is another one of my main arguments against Christianity. Now, I recognise different cultures have different burdens of proof, and that 21st century scholarly standards cannot be found even three centuries ago. Not to mention the fact they are Western-centric. However, I believe that any deity worthy of the attribute of omnipotence would be capable of delivering their canon inerrant in a manner that it speaks not only to the culture that receives it, but to all cultures and is capable of fulfilling all burdens of proof, any time. The Gospels violate every norm of 21st century scholarship, thus I am willing to discard their validity.

(Naturally, this is a grossly abbreviated stance of my position. And what on earth are we doing to this thread! )
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 03-02-2008, 07:41 AM   #401
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Quote:
Originally posted by bono_man2002




Pickachu!, smack that ass!

lol. hello to you too!
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:41 AM   #402
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Quote:
Originally posted by unico
so when is screwtape's birthday? i think we could all put some money together to get him the perfect present.

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/540076210.html
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:42 AM   #403
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Quote:
Originally posted by unico
mornin fellas how goes it?

15'd
G'day! We're now dragging this thread into intellectual territory.
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 03-02-2008, 07:43 AM   #404
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Quote:
Originally posted by unico
so when is screwtape's birthday? i think we could all put some money together to get him the perfect present.

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/540076210.html


LET'S DO IT.

Unfortunately, his birthday's in December.
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"Mediocrity is never so dangerous as when it is dressed up as sincerity." - Søren Kierkegaard

Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 03-02-2008, 07:43 AM   #405
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Originally posted by Axver

Also, the problem you mention with regards to the Gospels is another one of my main arguments against Christianity. Now, I recognise different cultures have different burdens of proof, and that 21st century scholarly standards cannot be found even three centuries ago. Not to mention the fact they are Western-centric. However, I believe that any deity worthy of the attribute of omnipotence would be capable of delivering their canon inerrant in a manner that it speaks not only to the culture that receives it, but to all cultures and is capable of fulfilling all burdens of proof, any time. The Gospels violate every norm of 21st century scholarship, thus I am willing to discard their validity.

(Naturally, this is a grossly abbreviated stance of my position. And what on earth are we doing to this thread! )
Fair enough. I would argue that you can apply a lot of the New Testament to contemporary life though, as long as you interpret correctly and within context - hence, "the Living Word".

And, let's be honest, this is pulling the thread up out of its depths. Also if this was posted in FYM, we'd just be flamed by redneck southern extremist Bible-bashers.
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