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Old 05-15-2006, 10:06 AM   #91
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Just be a little bit more objective, please.

Yeah, right, Garrincha...
garrincha was unbelievable. easily better than maradona.

in what way do you need me to be more objective??
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Old 05-15-2006, 10:40 AM   #92
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garrincha was unbelievable. easily better than maradona.

in what way do you need me to be more objective??
Well, I understand that it is hard. Given that you are English and it will be hard for you to admit Maradona in the Halls of Greatness...
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Old 05-15-2006, 10:50 AM   #93
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garrincha was unbelievable. easily better than maradona.

You may be a villa fan, which is great news, but garrincha was never better than maradona.

i saw that Brazil documentry too last night. Garrincha and Pele were amazing together but i still don't think maradona's level of talent has ever been reached or surpassed by anyone.
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Old 05-15-2006, 01:35 PM   #94
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But you can just have immagination, you can't think nothing concrete actually. Who knows if he would have worked in Europe? Maybe he would have been caught by saudade and he would have failed, who knows? It's a big hole in Pelé's career to have not play in Europe, there's surely a piece missing.
1960 Real Madrid
1961 Peñarol
1962 Santos
1963 Santos
1964 Inter Milan
1965 Inter Milan
1966 Peñarol
1967 Racing Club
1968 Estudiantes La Plata
1969 AC Milan
1970 Feyenoord

1958 Brazil
1962 Brazil
1966 England
1970 Brazil

Europe had nothing to teach to Pelé.
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Old 05-16-2006, 08:53 AM   #95
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Originally posted by 1stepcloser


You may be a villa fan, which is great news, but garrincha was never better than maradona.

i saw that Brazil documentry too last night. Garrincha and Pele were amazing together but i still don't think maradona's level of talent has ever been reached or surpassed by anyone.
oh sod it - as a villa fan what the hell do I know about football!

The pro's obviously know what they are talking about and for them to pick Pele top is probably the closest we will ever get to settling the debate!

Cant beleive Garrincha isnt on the list though - he was amazing and that you must admit.

Better than Maradona?..........................probably
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Old 05-16-2006, 09:37 AM   #96
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1960 Real Madrid
1961 Peñarol
1962 Santos
1963 Santos
1964 Inter Milan
1965 Inter Milan
1966 Peñarol
1967 Racing Club
1968 Estudiantes La Plata
1969 AC Milan
1970 Feyenoord

1958 Brazil
1962 Brazil
1966 England
1970 Brazil

Europe had nothing to teach to Pelé.


This means nothing, these are different kind of games. To play constantly in a championship for 34 to 38 games is pretty different. Playing in Europe would have increased his level in my opinion, you cannot compare the brazilian championship with the strongest european leagues. Not today, nor at that time
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Old 05-16-2006, 12:26 PM   #97
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This means nothing, these are different kind of games. To play constantly in a championship for 34 to 38 games is pretty different. Playing in Europe would have increased his level in my opinion, you cannot compare the brazilian championship with the strongest european leagues. Not today, nor at that time
I agree. Also i don't like to bring stereotypes into it but Brazilian football is very, very attack-based. Almost every player on the pitch likes to attack or get forward. In Europe the game is more restrained and more emphasis is placed on defence. Most of the worlds top defenders play in Europe and i think would have been interesting to see how Pele would have got on against Europe's finest defenders on a club level week in, week out instead of once every 4 years for a few games.
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Old 05-16-2006, 12:37 PM   #98
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Adding to that what you said, 1stepcloser, brazilian defenders learn in Europe how to defend. Brazil's football is amusing right because it is full attack, but under a defence-tactics point of view Brazil must thank that many of their defenders play in Europe. But in the same time European learn from Brazilians forward players
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Old 05-16-2006, 02:42 PM   #99
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Di Stefano, Sivori, Didi, Vava, Altafini, Schiaffino, etc. They are all big stars and legends in Europe, i doubt that Pelé was inferior to them, give me a break, people played football outside Europe.
If all the South American players decided to leave European leagues and came back to their original clubs, European leagues would collapse.
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Old 05-16-2006, 07:00 PM   #100
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Originally posted by guill

If all the South American players decided to leave European leagues and came back to their original clubs, European leagues would collapse.
Yep 'cos there's so many big name south americans that play in the English Premiership
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Old 05-16-2006, 11:06 PM   #101
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Dude england is a exception , its the only major euro league which doesnt happen this , check out the others.
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Old 05-17-2006, 08:41 AM   #102
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I told you you'd be back J_NP,
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Old 05-17-2006, 08:44 AM   #103
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If all the South American players decided to leave European leagues and came back to their original clubs, European leagues would collapse.



They would never take the same money they take in europe!
Anyway, I doubt european leagues would collapse, at the contrary, many young guys would get their chances to affirm themselves. Don't forget that many talents are obscured by southamericans players (obviously because they're already affirmed).European football has got so many schools. Look at Ajax for example, they got bunches of new young dutch players every year, they bring them up, and then they sell them making lots of money. In Italy we got Atalanta for example, they got the brightest football school. Maybe, if all the southamericans would go away, like you have supposed, the level of many european kids would increase, and even the nationalteams would become stronger
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Old 05-17-2006, 11:25 AM   #104
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I told you you'd be back J_NP,
Nah this doesn't counts mate , coz this was an off-topic besides I posted this , thinking this was like the Footy thread , got a bit confused , but see If I get back to the real discussion of this topic......
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Old 05-17-2006, 01:11 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by guill
Di Stefano, Sivori, Didi, Vava, Altafini, Schiaffino, etc. They are all big stars and legends in Europe, i doubt that Pelé was inferior to them, give me a break, people played football outside Europe.
If all the South American players decided to leave European leagues and came back to their original clubs, European leagues would collapse.
Then where would all the south american players, playing in south america now, play, if all the south american players playing in Europe now decided to leave the European leagues, to go back to their original clubs?
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