Die, Drôme Superthread

[Alisaura]

If the next album is just Edge reciting Pi, Bono reading the phone book, Adam giving a lecture on spoonology, and Larry repeatedly mumbling "fuck off and die", U2 could still play arenas in the US and stadiums in Europe.

Also, trying to appeal to EVERYBODY will fuck you up.

 

[Alisaura]

U2 never ever needs to worry about pulling a live crowd. Sure, a few shit albums and they would probably have to tone things down to arenas, but they could still tour very profitably to very enthusiastic audiences.

I need to grill Bono about the exact provisions of this so-called "two crap albums" rule.

 

[Axver]

Also, trying to appeal to EVERYBODY will fuck you up.

Yep. I think it's kind of ridiculous to try to consciously work to be the biggest band anyway. Look at JT. U2 wouldn't have expected that to suddenly make them the biggest band in the world. WOWY was at the time a very unconventional choice for lead single. Some albums just capture the public imagination and you can't manufacture that sort of thing.

 

[Axver]

I need to grill Bono about the exact provisions of this so-called "two crap albums" rule.

Given the fact they're currently about to release a new album, I think it must have just been meaningless hyperbole.

 

[bono_212]

Yep. I think it's kind of ridiculous to try to consciously work to be the biggest band anyway. Look at JT. U2 wouldn't have expected that to suddenly make them the biggest band in the world. WOWY was at the time a very unconventional choice for lead single. Some albums just capture the public imagination and you can't manufacture that sort of thing.

Maybe I'm just tired but that kinda made me go like this

 

[Alisaura]

i do thta and drink too much, smoke, do weed and drive too fast. and i drink hot chocolate with 2 sugars and 2 marshmallows.

im bankin on 2 years to live.

Sugar AND marshmallows?! You reckless fool!!

 

[Alisaura]

Yep. I think it's kind of ridiculous to try to consciously work to be the biggest band anyway. Look at JT. U2 wouldn't have expected that to suddenly make them the biggest band in the world. WOWY was at the time a very unconventional choice for lead single. Some albums just capture the public imagination and you can't manufacture that sort of thing.

The Fly was an unconventional choice. Numb was, too. Pop was ALL unconventional (for U2, at least). I dunno the order of their other singles releases (well, I'm guessing Pride was first off UF), but either something changed towards unconventional first singles, and/or it changed back again in the '00s.



Oh yeah. Getting niiiice and cynical about the new album again.

 

[bono_212]

Sugar AND marshmallows?! You reckless fool!!

! Oh God

 

[bono_212]

The Fly was an unconventional choice. Numb was, too. Pop was ALL unconventional (for U2, at least). I dunno the order of their other singles releases (well, I'm guessing Pride was first off UF), but either something changed towards unconventional first singles, and/or it changed back again in the '00s.



Oh yeah. Getting niiiice and cynical about the new album again.

Can someone please explain to me what was unconventional about Pop?

 

[Axver]

The Fly was an unconventional choice. Numb was, too. Pop was ALL unconventional (for U2, at least). I dunno the order of their other singles releases (well, I'm guessing Pride was first off UF), but either something changed towards unconventional first singles, and/or it changed back again in the '00s.



Oh yeah. Getting niiiice and cynical about the new album again.

OK, time to show off my nerdiness. U2's lead singles:

Boy: A Day Without Me
October: Gloria
War: New Year's Day
UF: Pride
JT: WOWY
RAH: Desire
AB: The Fly
Zooropa: Numb (Stay being the only "true" single except in Australia, where Lemon also got a CD release)
Pop: Discotheque
ATYCLB: Beautiful Day
HTDAAB: Vertigo

It seems to me that in the eighties, the selections were based on what they expected to do well on radio, except WOWY. The nineties was about pushing limits, though given The Fly hit #1 in the UK, it can't have been THAT out there in the context of the time. Then we've gone not just to those that will do well on radio, but those that pack the most catchiness into the shortest time.

 

[Alisaura]

Given the fact they're currently about to release a new album, I think it must have just been meaningless hyperbole.

It must have been, whether or not you think they've already released two crap albums. I still want to pin him down and ask him exactly how they're going to judge whether an album is crap. If they think it's crap while they're making it, one would hope they wouldn't release it. And every album they have released is their best so far, if you listen to Bono. What are they going to go by, album sales? It's going to go platinum no matter what. Even if it gets shit reviews, people will buy it out of curiosity. (Well, maybe they'd download it out of curiosity, I dunno.) But shitloads of people will buy it, no matter what the reviews say.

Presumably, they don't mean albums that they consider crap in retrospect, or they would have quit by now.

It means nothing!! Damn you, Bono, and your hyperbole.

(Incidentally, I thought that word was pronounce "hyper-bowl" until a few years ago. Whoops.)

 

[Axver]

It must have been, whether or not you think they've already released two crap albums. I still want to pin him down and ask him exactly how they're going to judge whether an album is crap. If they think it's crap while they're making it, one would hope they wouldn't release it. And every album they have released is their best so far, if you listen to Bono. What are they going to go by, album sales? It's going to go platinum no matter what. Even if it gets shit reviews, people will buy it out of curiosity. (Well, maybe they'd download it out of curiosity, I dunno.) But shitloads of people will buy it, no matter what the reviews say.

Presumably, they don't mean albums that they consider crap in retrospect, or they would have quit by now.

It means nothing!! Damn you, Bono, and your hyperbole.

BONO'S HYPERBOLE = OWNED.

But yeah, it seems the only way you can read it is "two albums that do badly on the charts", since they'd not release an album they don't like in the first place. And if that's their mentality, then that's nothing short of pathetic, hyper-commercialised bollocks.

(Incidentally, I thought that word was pronounce "hyper-bowl" until a few years ago. Whoops.)

Ha, I don't think I was corrected on that until last year.

 

[bono_212]

It must have been, whether or not you think they've already released two crap albums. I still want to pin him down and ask him exactly how they're going to judge whether an album is crap. If they think it's crap while they're making it, one would hope they wouldn't release it.

well we've already lost a few good songs that way though, that somehow found their way into the public's hands anyway, the band for inexplicable reasons finding them to be crap, the public, enjoying them quite a bit.

 

[bono_212]

Ha, I don't think I was corrected on that until last year.

I used to pronounced it hyper - BOWL- e

 

[Alisaura]

Can someone please explain to me what was unconventional about Pop?

....

*thinks*

I guess it was outside U2's perceived genre, with the drum machines and electronic dancey kinda stuff. And that Village People thing...

It was DIFFERENT, I suppose. And I'm not the best one to ask, since I wasn't a fan when it came out, so I have no idea what the general reaction was.

It doesn't sound unconventional to me now, but I don't know if that's just because I've listened to it so much, or because it would fit if they released it now. I've been thinking of calling TripleJ's request show (Australian "youth" radio station, they play a lot of indy/new/alternative music... they dropped U2 off their playlist like hot potatoes after BD came out, but you still hear some mainstream/widely successful acts like RHCP and Radiohead and even Coldplay), and asking them to play a track off Pop and see if anyone notices that it's a) U2, and b) ten years old.

 

[Alisaura]

Zooropa: Numb (Stay being the only "true" single except in Australia, where Lemon also got a CD release)

I remember my friend (who was trying unsuccessfully to convert me at the time) getting the Lemon single and playing it to me. I, sunk deep in John Farnham fandom, found it incomprehensible why anyone would make a single with seven versions of the SAME SONG on it, and why anyone else would buy it.

It seems to me that in the eighties, the selections were based on what they expected to do well on radio, except WOWY. The nineties was about pushing limits, though given The Fly hit #1 in the UK, it can't have been THAT out there in the context of the time. Then we've gone not just to those that will do well on radio, but those that pack the most catchiness into the shortest time.

Granted about The Fly probably not being way out there in terms of what else was around... but in terms of what people were used to hearing from U2, it was a bold choice. If they'd wanted a guaranteed #1 single right off the bat, they'd have put One out first.

 

[Axver]

well we've already lost a few good songs that way though, that somehow found their way into the public's hands anyway, the band for inexplicable reasons finding them to be crap, the public, enjoying them quite a bit.

Yeah, U2've had some really questionable judgement at times. The Dream Is Over left off the Another Day single? 11 O'clock Tick Tock left off Boy? The Three Sunrises, Bass Trap, and Love Comes Tumbling left off UF? Spanish Eyes and Love Comes Tumbling left off JT? Wild Irish Rose and She's A Mystery To Me consigned to oblivion? And regardless of what I may think about it, Mercy's done damn well here.

 

[bono_212]

Yeah, U2've had some really questionable judgement at times. The Dream Is Over left off the Another Day single? 11 O'clock Tick Tock left off Boy? The Three Sunrises, Bass Trap, and Love Comes Tumbling left off UF? Spanish Eyes and Love Comes Tumbling left off JT? Wild Irish Rose and She's A Mystery To Me consigned to oblivion? And regardless of what I may think about it, Mercy's done damn well here.

Ax, I forgot to save it, I need to try out your TUF tracklisting.

 

[Axver]

As for Pop, although it was a bit out there by U2's standards, I've seen some people on EYKIW actually accuse the band of trend-jumping there. "Oh, the kids like more dancey, electronic music? Let's put bleeps and boops on our album!" Not being somebody who's ever paid attention to the kind of music drunken young adults dance to, I've no idea if that's much of an accurate assessment, though.

 

[bono_212]

Yeah, U2've had some really questionable judgement at times. The Dream Is Over left off the Another Day single? 11 O'clock Tick Tock left off Boy? The Three Sunrises, Bass Trap, and Love Comes Tumbling left off UF? Spanish Eyes and Love Comes Tumbling left off JT? Wild Irish Rose and She's A Mystery To Me consigned to oblivion? And regardless of what I may think about it, Mercy's done damn well here.

I would like Mercy if that stupid first half didn't exist....

 

[Axver]

Ax, I forgot to save it, I need to try out your TUF tracklisting.

The one with Promenade twice and designed to loop back on itself?

1. A Sort Of Homecoming
2. Pride (In The Name Of Love)
3. Wire
4. Indian Summer Sky
5. Boomerang I
6. Boomerang II
7. Love Comes Tumbling
8. Sixty Seconds In Kingdom Come
9. Elvis Presley And America
10. Bass Trap
11. Promenade
12. The Unforgettable Fire
13. Promenade
14. 4th Of July
15. Bad
16. MLK
17. The Three Sunrises

 

[Screwtape2]

Yeah, U2've had some really questionable judgement at times. The Dream Is Over left off the Another Day single? 11 O'clock Tick Tock left off Boy? The Three Sunrises, Bass Trap, and Love Comes Tumbling left off UF? Spanish Eyes and Love Comes Tumbling left off JT? Wild Irish Rose and She's A Mystery To Me consigned to oblivion? And regardless of what I may think about it, Mercy's done damn well here.

Agreed. I love the band but damn they can make some questionable judgements at times. I also don't think Lillywhite, Lanois or Eno help the cause.

By the way, you said LCT should have been on TJT. I think you mean Walk To The Water.

 

[bono_212]

Agreed. I love the band but damn they can make some questionable judgements at times. I also don't think Lillywhite, Lanois or Eno help the cause.

By the way, you said LCT should have been on TJT. I think you mean Luminous Times.

Fixed

 

[Alisaura]

well we've already lost a few good songs that way though, that somehow found their way into the public's hands anyway, the band for inexplicable reasons finding them to be crap, the public, enjoying them quite a bit.

I was actually going to elaborate on that very point, but I figured I was crapping on enough as it was.

Two ways of looking at this:

1) In terms of their own personal integrity, I'd like to think they wouldn't release/make money off something that they honestly thought was not good. Yes, some unreleased gems have been discovered... but for every Smile or whatever else, there might be hundreds of piles of real, actual, horrifying crap.

2) Taste in music is highly subjective. The case can be argued that U2 are perhaps not the best judges of their own work, and their standards may be too high, or just configured very differently from ours. And I'm sure that tastes differ greatly within the band, as well as between the band and various groups of the general public. Each fan may find their tastes coincide more with one band member or another, but the end result of every U2 release is a compromise between (at least!) four different people. Sometimes compromises don't make anyone happy, and we, sadly, just have to suck it up, since they're the ones making the music.



I dunno if that made any sense. Getting on for bed time, methinks!

 

[Axver]

I remember my friend (who was trying unsuccessfully to convert me at the time) getting the Lemon single and playing it to me. I, sunk deep in John Farnham fandom, found it incomprehensible why anyone would make a single with seven versions of the SAME SONG on it, and why anyone else would buy it.

I still find it incomprehensible why anyone would make a single with seven versions of the same song. U2's singles since the end of the eighties have had such a nasty tendency of being totally pointless.

Granted about The Fly probably not being way out there in terms of what else was around... but in terms of what people were used to hearing from U2, it was a bold choice. If they'd wanted a guaranteed #1 single right off the bat, they'd have put One out first.

Yeah, exactly. You can see The Fly's unconventionality cost it in the US, where it only made #61. The second single, MW, hit #10, and the third single, One, hit #9. The Fly, however, remained the most successful single from Achtung in the UK. Goes to show Britons have better taste.

 

[Screwtape2]

Fixed

With all the great material left off The Joshua Tree, Rattle & Hum has to be the band's biggest blunder/missed opportunity before the horror that was the 2000's.

 

[bono_212]

It made sense, and I realize it's true.

But that doesn't make it any less likely that one day I'm just going to grab Bono by the shoulders, give him a good shake, nod, and walk away.

 

[bono_212]

With all the great material left off The Joshua Tree, Rattle & Hum has to be the band's biggest blunder/missed opportunity before the horror that was the 2000's.

Oh God, don't even start on Rattle and Hum

 

[Axver]

Fixed

Well done.

How did I write Love Comes Tumbling for Luminous Times?

I'm very, very fond of this version of JT I made:

1. Where The Streets Have No Name
2. I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For
3. With Or Without You
4. Luminous Times (Hold On To Love)
5. Spanish Eyes
6. In God's Country
7. Bullet The Blue Sky
8. Running To Stand Still
9. Red Hill Mining Town
10. One Tree Hill
11. Exit
12. Mothers Of The Disappeared

I'd personally probably ditch ISHFWILF too. Sure, it's popular and you'd keep it on there if you were actually marketing the album, but I could live without it.

 

[Screwtape2]

I still find it incomprehensible why anyone would make a single with seven versions of the same song. U2's singles since the end of the eighties have had such a nasty tendency of being totally pointless.

Well...I think having a single of different versions can be really good sometimes like Lemon or Professional Widow by Tori Amos. An artist just has to use it in moderation.