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Old 07-16-2002, 04:24 PM   #31
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Originally posted by ~unforgettableFOXfire~
I was going to type a big response to this but relationships are just so frustrating, I quit trying for a reason, screw happiness, I cant deal with all the bullshit.

Honestly, women, you arent perfect either, before you go on bitching about how guys are complete assholes, figure out what precisely it is that you want, and dont try to manipulate us, cuz some people dont take it very well and will reciprocate by treating you in a similarly shitty fashion. Now Im not accusing anyone here of being like that, Im just saying, youre not so perfect yourselves, so before you group every single guy into one generic category of 'assholes' just think that maybe we're not 100% of your problem and there might be personal issues you have to deal with. Nobody is perfect, you cant expect the stars of us because you WILL be dissapppointed. Not all guys are assholes, and you all know it, but its very difficult to be in a position as a guy wherein you see the same thing from everyone you know --> Girl meets guy, girl doesnt take time to understand guy, girl misinterprets guy, girl breaks up with 'asshole', girl comes back whining about how there are no good guys out there, as a good guy you are forced to listen and help, they say thanks for being a friend, they go off and find someone else, process repeats, and all the while you sit there and help --> now then, I scorn any and all of you women out there who say guys are assholes but have at least 1 really close guy friend. Dont be so blind. Honestly, how do you think he feels? Hes not just there because he likes listening to you bitch about every little fucking thing under the sun. Trust me.
Wow...pretty harsh. You have an awful lot of bitterness towards women at the age of 17. What the hell has happened to you to make you feel this way?

What was it about peaseblossom's post that set you off this way? She was just wondering out loud why someone led her on...I don't think she was putting down the entire male population.

Yes, there are women out there who expect too much and don't know what they really want but there are a hell of a lot of men who are great at the mind-fuck game and don't care what damage they cause.

Luckily for most us, there are also some really great, honest, sincere people out there and some of us have been lucky enough to have found one but you can't be bitter because you haven't found what you're looking for (sorry about the play on words) just yet.

Peaseblossom...I doubt you did anything wrong...consider yourself lucky that you didn't get any more involved.
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Old 07-16-2002, 04:25 PM   #32
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Pease...I wish I had something really helpful to offer, but having been in too many similar situations as the one you desribe, the best I can offer is that there's just no figuring out that behavior. You can analyze it until the cows come home and you'll never really figure it out. At least I haven't. People have intimacy issues, they get scared, they run off. They think they know what they want, but they change their minds, they run off in the most cravenly ways. I've seen as many women do this as men.

What I always try to ask myself is this: what was my role in it? No matter how obvious it seems to my mind that 'this guy did this thing to me,' if I reach down into a new level of personal honesty, I can usually see my part in it. Usually it's something subconscious rather than any overt behavior... it's usually very old stuff, old fears, old wounds, those things that mysteriously act as magnets to bring around these annoying 'lessons' to help me grow and all that bullshit, which isn't really bullshit at all of course but sometimes it seems like it is.

Anyway, try not to spend too much time focusing on him--in the end, it's always about you, as hard as that is to confront sometimes. Sorry if I'm psychobabbling, but like I said, I've had this happen to me so many times that I finally realized it can't be just them, it has to be me--and I don't mean that in a self-deprecating way, but more like "I must be subconsciously putting out a particular cause that I am unaware of that is creating this effect." Sorry if that's too metaphysical or new agey or whatever, but I think it's really true.
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Old 07-16-2002, 04:27 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by zonelistener


Look for a nice guy who is also nice looking, not just nice looking.
I do damnit! and you know what? They are all married or in a serious relationship...i can't win..
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Old 07-16-2002, 04:29 PM   #34
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~unforgettableFOXfire~, you are 18. You are too young to be so bitter.
I know you apologised for your attack, but you really missed the mark. Peaseblossom just wanted to get feedback on this guy's behaviour and I am sorry, but the behaviour she described is something I have experienced time and again. So yes, you may very well be a super nice guy, but there are tons out there that go about things in a very strange and rude way. NO girls of course are not perfect either, that I agree with.

I suppose my problem is, the more I experience guys like the one mentioned in Pease's initial post, the more I find it hard to believe that guys can actually love women, and that's sad. I do have a close guy friend and I'll tell you, while he's a nice guy and all, he's still a pig. Always ready to throw the rude and lude comments. Just seems the more I get to know the male gender the more I am convinced they are just out there to bang the opposite sex. You can be enraged by that comment, but from my own personal experiences and observations this is what I can conclude. I hope to be proved wrong one of these days.
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Old 07-16-2002, 04:32 PM   #35
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Big Grin my two pence

Joyful -

Most often, I think it has NOTHING to do with you - and it is truly them. They have the issue, not you. And if they have this issue, there is a good chance you do not want to be with them. I have learned that.

I internalize EVERYTHING. I feel everything that is bad is somehow caused by me - and it is rarely the case. You can't control everything, I am learning. It's frustrating, and painful - but life happens. And most of the time in relationships, you can't put the blame for the end of an relationship or acquantance (Sp?) on yourself.
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Old 07-16-2002, 04:41 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angel

I suppose my problem is, the more I experience guys like the one mentioned in Pease's initial post, the more I find it hard to believe that guys can actually love women, and that's sad. I do have a close guy friend and I'll tell you, while he's a nice guy and all, he's still a pig. Always ready to throw the rude and lude comments. Just seems the more I get to know the male gender the more I am convinced they are just out there to bang the opposite sex.
I think you are off a bit on this one Angel. I do not think I need to go into further detail here. But there are guys who are the complete opposite of what you described and do not lower themselves to this type of behavior and way thinking.
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Old 07-16-2002, 04:46 PM   #37
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Re: my two pence

Quote:
Originally posted by zonelistener
Joyful -

Most often, I think it has NOTHING to do with you - and it is truly them. They have the issue, not you. And if they have this issue, there is a good chance you do not want to be with them. I have learned that.

I internalize EVERYTHING. I feel everything that is bad is somehow caused by me - and it is rarely the case. You can't control everything, I am learning. It's frustrating, and painful - but life happens. And most of the time in relationships, you can't put the blame for the end of an relationship or acquantance (Sp?) on yourself.
Again, I'm talking about subconscious stuff. Maybe one says "I want a relationship! I want a relationship!" but then why does every relationship turn sour? On some deep level that is sometimes difficult to access, I think one really either does not want one, does not trust relationships, feels they are unworthy, has intimacy issues, daddy was mean to me, blah blah blah, so they draw people to them who mirror that back to them in order to bring this subconscious thing to the surface to be addressed. I didn't make this up...it's in all the psych textbooks.

[edit] also, it's important to mention that I'm talking about patterns here--I agree with you that "it's them" in the case of the random date gone sour, but when there are patterns or like when the beautiful, nice woman or man 'just never meets anyone' and 'there just isn't anyone to date'--you gotta look deeper. If it's a pattern, it's probably you. And believe me, I'm talking about myself here.

I guess there is a balance here between being too quick to blame the other person, and being too quick to blame yourself.
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Old 07-16-2002, 04:46 PM   #38
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Well...where should I start...Pease, you know my stance on this, but I guess I'll reply to as much as I can anyway.

First off, I definitely seem to fall into this "too nice" category, which quite honestly pisses me off. Since when is being too nice a bad trait to have?? Oh that's right, it's only a bad trait if you want to date the guy. Can't have someone actually treat you with too much respect or thoughtfulness, noooo, that's just not exciting enough. It's a great trait for friendship, however. And I know, maybe you think that someone who is "too nice" to you is just a yes man and doesn't see you for who you really are, but I think more often than not they DO see you for who you really are and treat you accordingly.

Another thing, would someone tell me why it seems that once you get labeled as "too nice," whatever you say about the girl just seems to be taken for granted because you're "too nice" or just a friend? Why is it so hard to believe that you are worth more than what your luck in dating has shown you so far? I don't say things just for the sake of flattery, and yet it seems my word carries little weight in a lot of cases. Wouldn't you think your friend's words would mean more since he knows you better than these other people? It honestly baffles me that once you get to be really close friends with someone, whenever you say something nice about them or cheer them up by pointing out their good traits, it carries little if any weight.

[theory]Maybe one of the reasons that a lot of these dating guys seem to fall through is that they aren't too nice. They've got that little bit of bad boy in them that most women seem to fall for, the kind of guy who's nice but has some mystery about him women want to figure out, or at least try to. But unfortunately that bad boy is also the part of them that doesn't call back when they say they will, or makes the big romantic gesture and then doesn't care to follow through. Too nice isn't such a bad thing if they at least stick around and follow through on their starts, don't you think?[/theory]

Anyway, you know I'm always there for you if you need a shoulder to lean on, but it's very frustrating to see you beat yourself up because this guy didn't call back or that guy didn't follow through. It's frustrating because I know that you've got so much to offer but are selling yourself short because of these little failures in dating. ***Caution, too nice talk coming...just toss it aside...***You're an incredible person, Pease - you're kind, honest, caring, adventurous, sexy, sweet, talented...and if that's not enough for these guys, then fuck em. That's not me being sweet, or just trying to make you feel better, that's the truth. I know it probably doesn't mean much to you anymore, but there it is anyway. Don't let these fools who let you go without a second thought determine what you are and what you're worth. You're worth far beyond what they can give.

Oh...and Pease, you only fell in love once, eh? Interesting....
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Old 07-16-2002, 04:47 PM   #39
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Big Grin I even use the nice guiy smilie

Quote:
Originally posted by MissVelvetDress_75


I do damnit! and you know what? They are all married or in a serious relationship...i can't win..
Yeah, I have that same problem! But obviously, your statement could not possibly be true, because Digi, Basstrap and I are all single nice guys - and are not involved in relationships.

P.S. - Digi, thanks for taking on Angel's issue, I was about to hit that one too. To ad though - I often wonder how some of my guy friends are total pigs and married, and there is me on the sideline going like this at them - and I am single and have a tough time finding a decent woman to date. I need to stop looking.
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Old 07-16-2002, 05:04 PM   #40
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Re: Re: my two pence

Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl


Again, I'm talking about subconscious stuff. Maybe one says "I want a relationship! I want a relationship!" but then why does every relationship turn sour? On some deep level that is sometimes difficult to access, I think one really either does not want one, does not trust relationships, feels they are unworthy, have intimacy issues, daddy was mean to me, blah blah blah, so they draw people to them who mirror that back to them in order to bring this subconscious thing to the surface to be addressed. I didn't make this up...it's in all the psych textbooks.

[edit] also, it's important to mention that I'm talking about patterns here--I agree with you that 'it's them" in the case of the random date gone sour, but when there are patterns or the beautiful, nice woman or man who 'just never meets anyone'--you gotta look deeper. If it's a pattern, it's probably you.
Much agreed - I understand better now!

Often, good communications is key to a succesful relationship/friendship!
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Old 07-16-2002, 05:04 PM   #41
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Ramble on...

Just in response to Peases orginal post....

In my experience of dating - I have been in this situation many many times before. Eventually... I just got to the point where I stopped waiting around and did what I needed to do. Generally... if a guy didnt call me by when he said he would - I would put it out of my mind and tell myself that it wasnt worth it. Or- I would call him and just ask him what the deal was and ask him to be honest with me - if he didnt want to date me again, tell me now and let me just go on with things. It could be very stressful and sometimes a little hurtful going through with this, but in the long run I was very glad I'd done this. Because when youthink about it... why do you want to waster your time thinking about/pining for someone who doesnt want to be with you? It's better to find out than to sit around wondering.

And in defense of all the girls saying that there are too many guys out there that are "too nice" etc... too willing, too accomodating, too doting, etc... while these things are very nice ina relationship, sometimes you want to know what he wants to do- what he likes, etc... it's not just about what you want to do etc... I hope that makes sense.

All I can say is it took me a loooooooooooong time to find someone that I really truly love and care about. I hope and pray everyday that I dont have to go back to the singles pool again. It took me literally several months to realize that my current boyfriend is a genuine "nice guy" and not out to screw me over like the last several guys I dated. I went through the whole dating thing for the longest time and I was convinced that there was no relief in site - and then when I least expected it - there he was. Just be open to things that you werent always before. Go out with someone who may not be "your type" etc... you may surprise yourself. Just hang in there and most importantly of all do NOT settle.
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Old 07-16-2002, 05:14 PM   #42
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About this nice guy thing...

I always fall for the guys I'm convinced are the nice guy type and NOT the bad boys of my youth. Then the behavior turns out to be the same as the bad boys. The wolf in sheep's clothing syndrome. Which leads me back to my patterns theory...
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Old 07-16-2002, 05:23 PM   #43
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Normal

I developed a new "key to relationships" in my last one.

Everyone has issues - I think you just need to find someone whose issues work well with your issues. For three months, I found that person - then, somehow, she created new issues. Ack.
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Old 07-16-2002, 05:28 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by zonelistener
I developed a new "key to relationships" in my last one.

Everyone has issues - I think you just need to find someone whose issues work well with your issues. For three months, I found that person - then, somehow, she created new issues. Ack.
I feel your pain on this one.... I just had that done to me. Although I think my thing was a timing thing with an ex and her being undecided, but maybe i am wrong. I guess if things are meant to be they will work out in the end.
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Old 07-16-2002, 05:30 PM   #45
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D- Somehow I feel that that "too nice"response was directed toward me. . . So let me react to that first....

"And I know, maybe you think that someone who is "too nice" to you is just a yes man and doesn't see you for who you really are"

I never ever said anything like that and you know that I don't believe that. I like guys that are "too nice." I like 'em a lot. I might even say that I love one... (and the reason I said fell in love just once is because I've always loved you, I loved you before we were dating, I still love you now and I always will- there was no falling in or out- it just is. Kind of like the sky being blue or the weather in Oak Park being beautiful.).' but along with that, I have to agree with She Is Raging (You're very wise, S.I.R., by the way) "And in defense of all the girls saying that there are too many guys out there that are "too nice" etc... too willing, too accomodating, too doting, etc... while these things are very nice ina relationship, sometimes you want to know what he wants to do- what he likes, etc... it's not just about what you want to do etc...".

"Why is it so hard to believe that you are worth more than what your luck in dating has shown you so far?"

You opinion carries a lot of weight with me. The fact that you still say nice things to me at all means more to me than I can tell you. You are one of the major reasons I have any self-confidence at all. I've never been good at taking compliments. you know that, but when it comes to getting your heart broken the bad stuff is easier to believe. When you're left with no answers, even after just a couple of dates, the only reasons you can find are the ones you see when you look at yourself: I'm not pretty enough, I'm not skinny enough, I'm not funny enough, I try to hard..... And when you're the one-date wonder like I am, you have plenty of time to think about that stuff. And to quote joyfulgirl, "but when there are patterns or the beautiful, nice woman or man who 'just never meets anyone'--you gotta look deeper. If it's a pattern, it's probably you. "

Bono's American Wife and Sicy- gee, thanks. I needed those hugs.

All I've really been trying to do is figure out the thought process that gets a guy to be this insensitive (:attn: disclaimer: I am not talking about every guy. I like guys- a lot. I have no problem against males as a species, just the sub-species that is emotionally ignorant.).

Watch, after all this, he'll probably call tonight (well, a girl can dream can't she).
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