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Old 05-14-2005, 09:49 PM   #61
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Originally posted by ImOuttaControl


I see your point of view, but I think we should wait till X&Y is released to see if they've gotten any more uptempo or not. If they could make some real rockers, they'd be unstoppable. Word is that most of the album is downtempo though, which disappoints me in a way. In any case it's still very very early to judge them--they have tons of potential and are releasing only their 3rd album. Basically in terms of years they are at the same point U2 was at in 1985, so they still have a lot of time to grow as a band.
I agree with the points you are making, but here is my main question/skeptisism with Coldplay...I like their music, it's well-written and it's nice to listen to, but it's not challenging. It's not challenging because there is little expirimentation. U2, at their core, have always been an expirimental band - like Bono has said, songs like SBS, NYD, Bad, WOWY, TUF, Streets, Still Haven't Found, MW(to not even mention Zooropa and Pop) sound normal now because they're staples, but they were unusual when they were released - and through 'Pop' and arguabley further than that, they have let their music evolve on every record and have made 'new sounds' on every record. That, to me, is one of the marks that any really great band makes. Beatles did it, Led Zep did it, Doors did it, Radiohead are doing it, etc etc etc. Now, Coldplay have are only just releasing their third record, and I will reserve full judgement until after I have heard X&Y, but I just have a gut feeling that Coldplay are not the type of band to take risks, to go exploring for that 'new sound' every record. I will say that that is partially because, like Bono said at the RARHOF, today's record industry would end Coldplay if it made a 'new sound' and it didn't sell well, but the point still stands. I need to hear evolution and restlessness and yearning and the band's inability to be content in the music if I am to think a band is great, and so far I haven't heard that in Coldplay yet. Perhaps X&Y will change my mind, time will tell. But I'm not holding my breath.
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Old 05-14-2005, 10:01 PM   #62
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Originally posted by namkcuR


I agree with the points you are making, but here is my main question/skeptisism with Coldplay...I like their music, it's well-written and it's nice to listen to, but it's not challenging. It's not challenging because there is little expirimentation. U2, at their core, have always been an expirimental band - like Bono has said, songs like SBS, NYD, Bad, WOWY, TUF, Streets, Still Haven't Found, MW(to not even mention Zooropa and Pop) sound normal now because they're staples, but they were unusual when they were released - and through 'Pop' and arguabley further than that, they have let their music evolve on every record and have made 'new sounds' on every record. That, to me, is one of the marks that any really great band makes. Beatles did it, Led Zep did it, Doors did it, Radiohead are doing it, etc etc etc. Now, Coldplay have are only just releasing their third record, and I will reserve full judgement until after I have heard X&Y, but I just have a gut feeling that Coldplay are not the type of band to take risks, to go exploring for that 'new sound' every record. I will say that that is partially because, like Bono said at the RARHOF, today's record industry would end Coldplay if it made a 'new sound' and it didn't sell well, but the point still stands. I need to hear evolution and restlessness and yearning and the band's inability to be content in the music if I am to think a band is great, and so far I haven't heard that in Coldplay yet. Perhaps X&Y will change my mind, time will tell. But I'm not holding my breath.
Good post. I agree with much of what you say. The thing I think Coldplay is most known for is for "bringing back the paino" into rock/pop music. I also read that X&Y was intended to be much more experimental, but Chris Martin backed away, saying something like "it's not time to re-invent our wheel yet." I think the key is to give them time to grow as a band. U2 didn't change a whole lot soundwise between Boy/October/War---and it seems coldplay take the pages out of U2's playbook at every chance. Maybe they also are believers in the album "trilogy" idea that U2 has used.

If Coldplay release 6 albums that sound like AROBTTH, then I'll agree that they lack vision or whatever, but it's important to keep in mind that U2 didn't change their sound overnight either. It took 17 years to go from "Boy" to "Pop." Every album was a gradual change up until achtung baby. I hear some growth between Parachutes and AROBTTH, and apparently Chris Martin has "fallen in love with electric guitar" on x&y. Maybe in a few albums if they keep progressing they'll make their own Achtung Baby or Joshua Tree--only time will tell.
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Old 05-14-2005, 10:16 PM   #63
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Reread my posts-- I don't think you were really able to grasp the points I was making. This is the type of defensiveness we were talking about, because you read what you wanted to and missed my points. U2 is my favorite band by far with Coldplay at a distant second, so I'm not saying this like Coldplay is my favorite band, just as someone who's not defensive about U2 inevitably having to pass the torch someday.

1. Never said Coldplay was bigger than U2.

2. At their respective points in their first 5 years of thier careers, U2 had 4 big hits with I Will Follow, Pride, Sunday Bloody Sunday and New Years Day. (although I would argue that IWF wasn't a huge hit at the time, maybe only in the UK)
Coldplay has had 6 with Yellow, Trouble, Clocks, The Scientist, In My Place and Speed of Sound, all of which have been huge hits. That's even before the release of their 3rd album.

3. I'd say that Coldplay has pretty much conquered America, considering "Speed of Sound" made its debut at #8 on the U.S. charts--the first British band to accomplish this feat since The Beatles released "Hey Jude" in 1968.

4. Again, read what I wrote. Sex appeal has a lot to do with youth--U2 aren't exactly spring chickens anymore. They simply don't appeal to the under 20 crowd like they used to. Coldplay does.

5. Your last point is totally subjective. Songs like Politik, Yellow and Clocks pack a ton of emotion IMO. Why does music have to be proactive to be good? One, The Fly, Gone, With Or Without You, Vertigo, Sometimes, Until The End of the World, Stay...ect are among U2's best songs, yet they don't really inspire me to get off my ass and "do something good."


I COMPLETELY AGREE! Of course I am defensive, it kind of shits you when someone comes on here and starts crapping on about how some new album is going to be putting Coldplay on the same pedistall as U2.
There is alot of Heresy going on about X&Y before it's even released. And as you said it's suppose to be down tempo and if that's the case it's gonna be dissapointing for me.

WARNING!!!
The below quote may offend some!

"""""3. I'd say that Coldplay has pretty much conquered America, considering "Speed of Sound" made its debut at #8 on the U.S. charts--the first British band to accomplish this feat since The Beatles released "Hey Jude" in 1968.""""""

What I meant by conquering America was not chart singles, I mean as in a whole, they had the albums the tours they were also controversial. In 1985 U2 had about 5 tours by that stage. Your measurement techniques put other bands other than Coldplay in the same league as U2.. ie: Matchbox 20 and No Doubt. U2 had also done Live Aid, Red Rocks and had a huge cult following, which is owed to there touring.

I also never stated that Coldplay's songs have to be pro-active to have to be good, I like there songs the way they are and I think they are beautiful. I also never stated Colplays were crap because it's not pro-active. What I am saying is because they lack that big huge rock sound and aggresiveness that makes you want to get up and want to do something about this fucked up workd. Coldplay songs so far are Melon Colies, alot of them are downer songs, not fighter songs!
One and The Fly are extremely pro-active songs, One is about a gay guy telling his dad for the first time he is gay and it's a conversation between the two! I agree it's not the most jumpy song. But.. where are coldplays pro-active songs? Whats going to make them be remembered, what is their legacy?
and about The FLY??? That song has a framework like no other(lyrically). It's about the media and it has a sound which completely makes you want to jump around.
Songs like Sunday Bloody Sunday, New Years Day, Pride, Where The Streets Have No Name, Even Better Than The Real Thing, Elevation, Beautiful Day, Mysterious Ways. Plus all those others which were never released as singles..

Out of all the songs that you listed which were hits with Coldplay I would have only mentioned Clocks and Yellow as big hits and they lack that focus and energy I mentioned. I love The Scientist and In My Place, but are they going to be played on the radio in 5 years...

Your right about not saying they are as huge as U2 were at this point, I am sorry that I stated such. But you did say they were at the same point, which I feel is unfounded.



Cheers Mate
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Old 05-14-2005, 10:18 PM   #64
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Quote:
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Good post. I agree with much of what you say. The thing I think Coldplay is most known for is for "bringing back the paino" into rock/pop music. I also read that X&Y was intended to be much more experimental, but Chris Martin backed away, saying something like "it's not time to re-invent our wheel yet." I think the key is to give them time to grow as a band. U2 didn't change a whole lot soundwise between Boy/October/War---and it seems coldplay take the pages out of U2's playbook at every chance. Maybe they also are believers in the album "trilogy" idea that U2 has used.

If Coldplay release 6 albums that sound like AROBTTH, then I'll agree that they lack vision or whatever, but it's important to keep in mind that U2 didn't change their sound overnight either. It took 17 years to go from "Boy" to "Pop." Every album was a gradual change up until achtung baby. I hear some growth between Parachutes and AROBTTH, and apparently Chris Martin has "fallen in love with electric guitar" on x&y. Maybe in a few albums if they keep progressing they'll make their own Achtung Baby or Joshua Tree--only time will tell.
Maybe, but judging soley by 'Speed Of Sound', I'm not getting my hopes up. But hey, I could be wrong. But right now, Keane's record is exciting me more than the prospect of Coldplay's new one. 'Somewhere Only We Know' is just a great great song.
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Old 05-14-2005, 10:52 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by namkcuR


I agree with the points you are making, but here is my main question/skeptisism with Coldplay...I like their music, it's well-written and it's nice to listen to, but it's not challenging. It's not challenging because there is little expirimentation. U2, at their core, have always been an expirimental band - like Bono has said, songs like SBS, NYD, Bad, WOWY, TUF, Streets, Still Haven't Found, MW(to not even mention Zooropa and Pop) sound normal now because they're staples, but they were unusual when they were released - and through 'Pop' and arguabley further than that, they have let their music evolve on every record and have made 'new sounds' on every record. That, to me, is one of the marks that any really great band makes. Beatles did it, Led Zep did it, Doors did it, Radiohead are doing it, etc etc etc. Now, Coldplay have are only just releasing their third record, and I will reserve full judgement until after I have heard X&Y, but I just have a gut feeling that Coldplay are not the type of band to take risks, to go exploring for that 'new sound' every record. I will say that that is partially because, like Bono said at the RARHOF, today's record industry would end Coldplay if it made a 'new sound' and it didn't sell well, but the point still stands. I need to hear evolution and restlessness and yearning and the band's inability to be content in the music if I am to think a band is great, and so far I haven't heard that in Coldplay yet. Perhaps X&Y will change my mind, time will tell. But I'm not holding my breath.

I like your post too, it's exactly how I feel. I am pathetic with my expression skills and wish I had some better ones
I always feel bad when new bands like Colplay come up for this exact reason, I am one of the first to jump on the bandwagon when saying they will never be as big as U2, mainly because of the point you just made Namkur.
Thats being said I think the music Coldplay makes is just awesome. But what I love about U2 is the experimentation and the risk. I think what Bono said at the RARHOF has it's truth's for sure, but U2 didn't really do anything radical til they had set in stone that they were something special already.


over!
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Old 05-15-2005, 03:44 AM   #66
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Can't judge an album from one song.

In My Place was the first single from ROBTTH, and it's nowhere near the best track on the album. Clocks, ROBTTH, Amsterdam, Politik and Warning Sign are a lot better.

Speed of Sound is indeed typical Coldplay and rather unchallenging, but at least it sounds good.

I actually think Coldplay are qualified to not embark on a PoP or Achtung Baby or Unforgettable Fire experiment yet. They can keep on doing what they are doing for another album. Then, if they are gonna be remembered and be considered as rock and roll legends, they will need to try and do something different.

Who knows though, maybe X&Y will have an Elvis Presley in America or a Mofo on it?
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Old 05-15-2005, 03:51 AM   #67
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I quite like Coldplay but Speed of Sound is mediocre IMO.
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Old 05-15-2005, 04:57 AM   #68
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Firstly, the word is "melancholy". Fuckin' Smashing Pumpkins!

Now we can please stop with the Stalinist revisionism? U2 were NOT a mega band in 1985, despite their big turn at Live Aid etc. They did not have a No 1 till New Years Day (Jan 1983) in the UK and didn't get mega till 1987.

At the time of their third album (War in 1983 for those who have forgotten) they were getting flack for releasing the same old, same old stuff, Edge with his "predictable guitar sound", Bono's white flag waving "cliche", and they were getting mightily slagged off for Bono's speaker stack climbing. Now those of us on the inside knew what he was trying to do with the white flag and climbing the stacks, but from the outside.....Also it should be remembered that U2 were with a very understanding record company, who continued to nurture them for SEVEN years before they actually made Island any real, proper money. This is unfortunately completely unheard of today with the 4 mega commercial record companies.

I sometimes think we get too myopic here looking at U2 and forget to pull back sometimes and see how U2 looks from afar. They weren't always big, and they aren't always perfect.
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Old 05-15-2005, 05:07 AM   #69
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I sometimes think we get too myopic here looking at U2 and forget to pull back sometimes and see how U2 looks from afar. They weren't always big, and they aren't always perfect.

We never said U2 were always big, but they were bigger after 5 years than what Coldplay is now. And we certainly never said U2 was perfect. U2 will be the first to admit that
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Old 05-15-2005, 05:18 AM   #70
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I actually take issue with the statement that U2 were bigger in 1985 than Coldplay is now, but I can't be arsed to look up figures. Look I love U2, we all do, but I don't really care if Coldplay, Christina or Weird Al Yankovic sell more records and are more respected.

I liked U2 way back when, when none of my friends knew who they were, and I like them now, when nearly all of my friends think they're over-rated.

I like Coldplay a lot, for the record.
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Old 05-15-2005, 09:24 AM   #71
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Coldplay X&Y: Best U2 record U2 never made, I miss U2

I have no idea how a fan group comprised 100% of U2 die hards (most normal fans wouldn't joint a fan group) can't like coldplay's newest single???? It is U2 sounding at its best! Speed of Sound is not at all manufactured, it acutally has a bridge and a pre-chorus! Crazy eh? Everything else on the radio is just verse chorus verse and that's it. Coldplays music is more involved just like U2's and that's what makes it great. It grows on you as you begin to appreciate the subtelties in the music . . .just like U2's. If we were comparing U2 with Megadeth then I could see how no one would like them, but come on guys, get a clue, Coldplay is U2 20 years ago!
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Old 05-15-2005, 09:38 AM   #72
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Originally posted by LuvandPeace1980



We never said U2 were always big, but they were bigger after 5 years than what Coldplay is now. And we certainly never said U2 was perfect. U2 will be the first to admit that
I think you're wrong there. U2's first 4 studio albums (keep in mind this is 20+ years after their release. I would guess the sales figures at the time were about half of what is shown here).

Boy: 3 Million
October: 3 Million
War: 8 Million
TUF: 8 Million

So, U2's first 4 albums sold about 22 million albums to date. In 1985, it was probably more like 14 million. Millions of people have bought U2's back catalogue in the last 20 years--especially after the release of the Joshua Tree. I dont have the figures to compare Red Rocks to the Coldplay Live DVD (I don't even know if that would be a fair comparison), so I'll leave it at studio albums.

Between their first 2 albums Parachutes and A Rush Of Blood To The Head, Coldplay has already sold 16 Million albums. I have no doubt that X&Y will break the 10 million mark, especially for how much it's being hyped. That will bring Coldplays 5 year total to around 26 million albums. If X&Y does hit the 10 million mark as is expected, Coldplay will have sold many more albums in their first 5 years than U2 did---even with a 20 year jump on selling their back catalogue, Coldplay will sell more in their first 3 albums than U2 did in their first 4. This doesn't make Coldplay better or anything, so don't bother with that line of thinking, but it refutes the statement that "U2 was bigger after 5 years than Coldplay is now."
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Old 05-15-2005, 10:03 AM   #73
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Re: Coldplay X&Y: Best U2 record U2 never made, I miss U2

Quote:
Originally posted by mhowells
I have no idea how a fan group comprised 100% of U2 die hards (most normal fans wouldn't joint a fan group) can't like coldplay's newest single???? It is U2 sounding at its best!
Do me a favour.

It took U2 over twenty years before they started to revist their own sound. The fact that Coldplay are (at this early stage) doing the same is rather sad and pathetic.
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Old 05-15-2005, 10:04 AM   #74
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Its all the media driven hype that will get all these people out to buy the album from the so called next U2...and about 3 albums from now Coldplay themselves will be smashed by the media so they will know what U2 goes through on a regular basis these days.

Coldplay hasnt done anything they didnt do on the previous 2 albums with either Speed Of Sound or Talk....yes they sound good but they are certainly very convensional and predictable Coldplay...but maybe thats what they want them to be.

As for Coldplay live they cant even kiss the feet of U2 at this point in time and I doubt they ever will be able to...Im looking forward to the new Coldplay album but it certainly wont be anything that im not expecting.
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Old 05-15-2005, 10:10 AM   #75
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they have let their music evolve on every record and have made 'new sounds' on every record. That, to me, is one of the marks that any really great band makes. Radiohead are doing it,



like Bono said at the RARHOF, today's record industry would end Coldplay if it made a 'new sound' and it didn't sell well, but the point still stands.

those 2 statements are contradictory. if radiohead can do it, coldplay can too.
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