Cockburn Street, Edinburgh, Scotland Superthread

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At MQ, markers only get paid if an essay is over 1,000 words in length. The Ancient History department has taken to putting assessments out in multiple parts of <1000 words in order to avoid paying tutors (because of the amount of students taking their subjects.)

So, if I were an Ancient History tutor, instead of marking twenty 2,500 word essays, I'd be marking sixty 800 word Part As for an assessment, my colleague would mark sixty Part Bs, etc etc.

Holy shit, how can that even happen. So if I'm reading you correctly, you could mark eighty 500 word assignments, and not get paid a cent for it? I did that once, got paid ten hours on the basis of 4,000 words an hour, and still found it a ripoff - took me much longer than ten hours once writing meaningful feedback was factored in, let me tell you.

Also, I'm very leery of the conflation of learning per se, and university. You don't have to go and spend $50,000 to read books on something that interests you. I realise that is a separate issue to a career in something, just saying.

I suppose I'm biased being part of the system, but I tend to think university is the ideal place to go if you wish to learn about something in serious depth - as long as you do the right courses at the right place. At the right university, you have institutional support, access to resources, leading experts in the field, and a community of likeminded people (mainly at postgrad) that you just can't replicate; at the wrong uni, you may as well have stayed at home and used your Internet connection to learn shit-tonnes more.

In fairness to your history students, they're probably just forced to take certain units, right? As part of the larger degree they are ostensibly there for? I mean I did well in politics/history related subjects because it really interested me, but I barely stumbled through Human Resources/ Org Behaviour type subjects because I did not care about, and in fact actively despised them and everything about them. Accounting, the less said the better. The people who marked me, and (just) passed me, probably saw an apathetic student, and they were correct.

Well this is the thing - in History at the moment, we have no compulsory subjects except the third-year capstone, which is the same here as what Liam described. When I was in undergrad, that meant a considerable range of choice, and the capstone hadn't yet been introduced either so everything was an elective and you just had to do enough subjects to achieve the requisite points for a major (there was one subject that, if you did Honours, you either had to do in third year as Honours prep or during the Honours year itself, but that was the closest we came to a mandatory course). Now, with a series of budget squeezes, the range of courses has become much more limited - the Honours offerings are almost absurd right now, with all courses in theory elective but you need to do five courses and only six are offered.

I'm currently teaching in second year and that has probably the broadest offerings, so in theory all my students are there because they want to be there. It's fashionable among my colleagues to blame all the non-History students doing our subjects as breadth for dragging down the quality, but I actually find them to often be better students. They don't know History requirements, so they go out of their way to pay attention to my instructions, to read the essay guidelines, etc. Too many of the mediocre History students think they know what they're doing and hand in essays I can only describe as disappointing.

I liked the idea of university as a way of transitioning from living with my parents to living on my own. But, in the end, I also attended grad school, basically because I still didn't quite know what to do with myself.

I suppose your situation is rather different to the kind of people I'm frustrated by - people from fairly wealthy, comfortable families who still live at home, who have gone on to postgrad because they have good grades but little drive or direction and are doing degrees where career options are painfully limited even for those with greatest ambition and talent (e.g. creative writing, history, sociology). Now their degrees are close to done and what are they going to do? Keep living at home off mummy and daddy? A couple of the people I'm thinking of will probably be fine because they are really talented individuals, even if they lack direction right now, and will find - or fall into - something that uses their skills. But some others, I don't even...
 
Holy shit, how can that even happen. So if I'm reading you correctly, you could mark eighty 500 word assignments, and not get paid a cent for it? I did that once, got paid ten hours on the basis of 4,000 words an hour, and still found it a ripoff - took me much longer than ten hours once writing meaningful feedback was factored in, let me tell you.

You could mark eight HUNDRED 500 word essays and not get paid a cent. It happens because of the massive competition regarding academic positions, as we previously discussed - people will do masses of unpaid work in order to prove their worth to a department.
 
I suppose your situation is rather different to the kind of people I'm frustrated by - people from fairly wealthy, comfortable families who still live at home, who have gone on to postgrad because they have good grades but little drive or direction and are doing degrees where career options are painfully limited even for those with greatest ambition and talent (e.g. creative writing, history, sociology). Now their degrees are close to done and what are they going to do? Keep living at home off mummy and daddy? A couple of the people I'm thinking of will probably be fine because they are really talented individuals, even if they lack direction right now, and will find - or fall into - something that uses their skills. But some others, I don't even...

Yeah, here, a lot of times, if you go to university, you live on campus. Not always, but often.

I went to grad school because my career had completely stalled out once I graduated, and the job I had paid for a good portion of my out-of-pocket expense because what I was doing was vaguely related to my position with the company.

But almost as soon as I graduated with my M.S., I moved out to California to pursue my dreams, etc., and of course, now I'm afraid that I went and over-educated myself out of the job I want.
 
Wow that's obscene, Liam.

Especially since here tutoring/marking is seen as having little value to your career prospects. I've been told by numerous academics that as long as you've done it once and got it on your CV, you really only need to keep doing it if you want the money.

It troubles me how devalued this sort of thing is. Tutors/markers are at the front line of student engagement, seeing the average student far more than any staff member, yet subsist on shitty pay deals and completely insecure casual contracts. I don't know about up there, but most tutors don't even know if they've got any tutoring until just before the start of semester. I even know people who got their tutoring jobs during the first week of semester.
 
Yeah, here, a lot of times, if you go to university, you live on campus. Not always, but often.

I went to grad school because my career had completely stalled out once I graduated, and the job I had paid for a good portion of my out-of-pocket expense because what I was doing was vaguely related to my position with the company.

But almost as soon as I graduated with my M.S., I moved out to California to pursue my dreams, etc., and of course, now I'm afraid that I went and over-educated myself out of the job I want.

Right, yeah, we don't have this culture of moving across country to attend a university, or of moving on campus even if you live locally. I was quite unusual in relocating to Melbourne to study (and that was for reasons not just related to studying; if I hadn't had the desire to leave Queensland or to live in Melbourne I would've stayed at the University of Queensland). The University of Melbourne has over 40,000 students, and I think the amount who live in the colleges is around 3,000. Of course regional kids have to relocate since our universities are clustered in the major centres (Victoria has, I think, nine universities, and the main campuses for all but one are in Melbourne), and they comprise a large proportion of the college population - but many choose to live off campus.

And see, the people I'm talking about never even had a career after undergrad that could stall. They did their BA and then went straight on to Honours/Masters. Never worked in anything more serious than staffing the checkout at a supermarket over summer.

As for being overqualified, could you downplay your qualifications on your CV...?
 
As for being overqualified, could you downplay your qualifications on your CV...?

That's what everyone always tells me, but the thought of leaving my master's off, and then getting a job, only to find out that I have it later seemed strange to me. I don't know, I just don't like the thought of going into a job like that, but I should probably try it, just to see what happens.
 
I suppose I'm biased being part of the system, but I tend to think university is the ideal place to go if you wish to learn about something in serious depth - as long as you do the right courses at the right place. At the right university, you have institutional support, access to resources, leading experts in the field, and a community of likeminded people (mainly at postgrad) that you just can't replicate; at the wrong uni, you may as well have stayed at home and used your Internet connection to learn shit-tonnes more.

That's fair enough, and i suppose it depends on what one means by 'serious depth'. I'm probably broader than I am deep, by and large, though not hopelessly shallow.

Obviously even us lay readers (the mythical 'educated layperson') are enjoying the benefits of the work and insight of (by and large) tenured or at least career academics. So in no way am I pooh-poohing any of that, in itself.


Well this is the thing - in History at the moment, we have no compulsory subjects except the third-year capstone, which is the same here as what Liam described. When I was in undergrad, that meant a considerable range of choice, and the capstone hadn't yet been introduced either so everything was an elective and you just had to do enough subjects to achieve the requisite points for a major (there was one subject that, if you did Honours, you either had to do in third year as Honours prep or during the Honours year itself, but that was the closest we came to a mandatory course). Now, with a series of budget squeezes, the range of courses has become much more limited - the Honours offerings are almost absurd right now, with all courses in theory elective but you need to do five courses and only six are offered.

Well if there's, by and large, no compulsory subjects in the area you cover, that changes the picture somewhat.
 
Ugh, jobs :(
i hear you :(

i just found out the job i have ends on december 3rd, not the 15th like my contract said. kinda gonna miss that extra paycheque i would've gotten.

plus i'm graduating like a week after that, i've got grad school applications to do, gre, and of course the final papers due in all my classes. tbh i just want to fast forward to this time next month when it's all done.
 
I've been up early to write about U2 in Berlin and tonight I'll be out late for a gig and I'm already expecting to be yawning by about 9pm. I've become an old man.
 
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