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Old 03-12-2004, 05:57 PM   #61
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Yikes, where do I start?

I'm a Canadian and I love watching hockey. I do not enjoy watching fights of any kind whether it be on an ice rink or a boxing ring or a street corner. I feel for Gary Bettman because I think he wants to ban fighting entirely from hockey but is meeting resistance from within (owners, management and players). Why the resistance, it probably all comes down to money but what do I know, I'm just a fan.
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Old 03-12-2004, 11:56 PM   #62
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Hmmm, some serious rumors floating around Colorado regarding Moore.

A friend of our family, who is a nurse and an advisor for insurance companies on patients who have serious medical problems--usually paralysis--has heard stuff regarding his transfer to Craig Hospital and the doctor who will be caring for him. She says he has suffered serious neurological damage or spinal injury and will likely never play again.

The Avalanche half-admitted during the game today there was some spinal bruising.

Obviously, I hope this is just rumor and that Moore will prove them all wrong.

I cannot believe Brian Burke has now done a complete turnaround and is now complaining about how Bertuzzi and the Canucks have been treated--claiming Moore can be on the ice in four weeks?! Honestly.
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Old 03-12-2004, 11:58 PM   #63
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I loved that article on ESPN... I mean, it is now clear as day to me that Canada is a violent culture unfit for its place in North America. Goodness no, we might corrupt the poor impressionable youth of the US and Mexico into being violent sociopaths with our merciless ways! Won't someone please think of the children?!


The NHL has always condoned this sort of thing by allowing it to happen. While I still think that the neck injury was still part accident, and its quite clear that I cannot persuade anyone otherwise, while Bertuzzi is to blame for acting; part of the fault clearly goes to the Canucks - Injury aside, if they wanted revenge, they would have had Brad May execute it, and if something went wrong, they wouldnt have lost someone integral to the success of the remainder of the season and the playoffs. However, the fact is, the staff of the Canucks and parts of the team wanted this to happen, and it would have happened regardless - so while Bertuzzi is responsible for his physical act; the team is clearly responsible for the motivation to act, and the fact that it would have happened anyway (though, hopefully, not in this grizzly manner). That being said, the NHL only ever acts when things are taken to extremes; so the NHL needs to take the majority of the responsibility and start doing things to prevent this kind of behaviour instead of reacting to it.


I still disagree that Bertuzzi leapt from the ice; I mean, lets define 'pounced' or 'jumped' or 'leapt' ... I watched the replay again last night just to make sure, and what I saw was no jump. Ive had to jump on skates, and from the position he was in, there is no way he could manage it, nor does it look like one to me. Be that as it may, I've still not offered any argument that there wasnt intent to injure, but I certainly don't think that he intended for what happened to happen. The intent was there, but I think the extent to which circumstances played out was far worse then he or anyone else could have forseen. Again, I point out Kevin Stevens; he needed 3 reconstructive surgeries to restore his face after he was knocked out and landed face first on the ice - and in that case, noone had 'driven' him into the ice. Theres no doubt in my mind, that if Bertuzzi (who's what, 6'5, 260lbs?) wanted to really drive Moore's face into the ice as is so alleged, that Moore would be dead right now. If things proceeded as alleged, Bertuzzi would have had his hands on Moores head, and would have tried to land with his weight on his hands instead of landing on his chest (which happened to be on Moores back). If the real intent to severely maim Moore was there, this would have been far, far worse. Don't make the mistake of thinking that the human body is indestructable - just look at that NBA incident from about 15-20 years ago: One punch shattered the man's skull and almost killed him. We have that sort of power over one another, and we can kill each other with our bare hands if we're so inclined. I'm still really not convinced by all this media hooplah about Bertuzzi flying through the air with purpose to drive Moore's skull into the ice and break his neck.



Edit:

And having read that last post that was made while I was writing mine... Yeah. The administration of the teams, of the league, and of the players are all quite terrible; Its unfortunate that something like this had to happen to spur them into a situation of actually enforcing accountability. However, theyre doing what all good administrations do (government, education systems, corporations, the CIA, etc): vacillate on the issue until they come up with something that the public can accept - even if it contradicts stuff that they said earlier. And yes, it is irritating. I really can't help anyone on that one, I mean, the NHL and the owners/managers/ NHLPA really need to step up once and a while.
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Old 03-13-2004, 11:57 PM   #64
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Greetings from New Delhi...

Excellent post, ~unforgettableFoxfire~. I agree with pretty much everything you said.

All I have to say is:

1. It was a sad day for hockey.
2. It was a sad day for Todd Bertuzzi
3. It was a very sad day for Steve Moore (and his friends and family)

No one, including Bertuzzi, could have foreseen the consequences, but I believe Bertuzzi got what he deserved, not to mention the guilt and life-changing ramifications that come with such an act. His life will never be the same. Neither will Moore's. Let's all pray he recovers.
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Old 03-14-2004, 12:48 AM   #65
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Hey griffey.

It's interesting to see all the unilateral conservative rhetoric being delivered on this issue. A lot of material in the media has said vigilante justice, or eye-for-an-eye targetting, is ridiculous and has no part in sport.

Obviously. I always enjoy passive affirmation.

But the reaction has been outlandish and unprofessional in many circumstances... hypocritically asking for a balanced reciprocated punishment from the NHL's review board. Fundamentally how is this improving the state of the sport, or the methods of the governing body? The punishment fits the crime for sure, but has the intent behind this decision departed much from Bertuzzi's retaliation?

I have no problem with the suspension, and the indefinite term is quite appropriate. My malcontentery is with the ignorance used to influence the decision... lobbyists in the form of vultures, collecting political capital for their own gain, and to reinforce their neurotically compromised positions.

Then again, maybe I like viewing the words I type.
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Old 03-14-2004, 01:05 AM   #66
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I knew MG would chime in from the bowels of India I can just picture him hunched over a computer in 900 degree heat with 3 million people waiting in line behind him waiting to use the computer. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE MG !

BTW they lost tonight to Ottawa but won yesterday against the Oilers in an awesome overtime game.
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Old 03-14-2004, 02:13 AM   #67
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The game tonight was pretty good, I thought... its a shame they lost though...

Im just happy Toronto has lost to both Pittsburgh and Montreal in the past 3 days
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Old 03-14-2004, 06:02 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by ~unforgettableFOXfire~
The game tonight was pretty good, I thought... its a shame they lost though...
yup, they could have easily made into overtime against Ottawa and won it but it just wasn't in the cards for them. Without Bertuzzi they're power play is just not functioning like it was but i'm sure they'll get it together in time for the Playoffs.
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Old 03-15-2004, 01:19 AM   #69
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Haha, E-Monkey! It is very hot here...but there are surprisingly few people in this particular cyber cafe at the moment.

Tell me how the Canucks' two new players look. Can you give me the new line combinations? Is Morrison still playing with Naslund? I would imagine Sanderson is playing with Naslund and Morrison, correct?

Okay, I just wanted to say one thing about Vancouver people, as some on here have given them a bad rap. Vancouver is a great, beautiful city, with many great and beautiful people. How cheesy that sounds, I know...but the truth is, it is chocked full of very smart, open, active and exciting people, who have a zest for life. Like any place, you'll find some immature twits, no question - especially at a hockey game! But when Moore was taken away by stretcher, people clapped for him. The few boneheads at the game would be found in any hockey rink in N. America. Anyway, just my 2 cents about Vancouver.

Bye for now!
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Old 03-15-2004, 03:29 AM   #70
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Rucinsky has taken point on the number one line. It bodes well for me and my hockey pool team.

As for Vancouverites projecting a beautiful image and such, for the most part I'd agree. Except for when they leave the majestic bounty of the pacific coast and venture off to new lands. Often when I talk with expatriated vannies (not meant to sound derogatory) they have a very supreme and condescending attitude... not a flattering trait in the least. Of course this isn't true in all cases, but I've found conversations always lead to municipal comparisons... inevitably ranking the inadequacies and shortcomings of other cities. Places that defiantly make it their mission to tarnish the world rankings of such a diverse and elegant port town. But then again, I've always called Vancouver by the maligned name of Toronto West.

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Old 03-15-2004, 08:53 AM   #71
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I think the "clean" image of Vancouverians was tarnished this weekend when 300-500 of them gathered for a "Free Bert" rally. Yes, they are selling shirts that say "Free Bert" by the droves. They say it is to show support for Bertuzzi - and not his actions. I personally think the shirts just fan the flames further.

Cujo2 - good view on the situation (Politicos jumping the bandwagon against hockey violence AND your over-woridness)! Summarise in common-speak, please (after all, this is a hockey thread)!
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Old 03-16-2004, 01:12 AM   #72
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Basically, a lot of roundtable discussion forums, and even early morning talkshows, found a place to reprimand hockey in their opening dialogues. I was commenting on how inappropriate the context of conversation is on these shows, and in the broad media, when the panel consists of impatient and hockey-ignorant reactionaries. Those individuals with so little sense, yet so many answers... and it's an election year (for both Canada and the US), so violence and collective "immorality" is condensed, packaged, and sold to the lobbyist with the least valid cheque. Then it engulfs the public domain for displaced ridicule. Disheartening to even hear comments from the Prime Minister... filtered as they were.

Amazing.
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Old 03-16-2004, 01:00 PM   #73
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I took it you were talking about the Prime Minister.
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Old 03-16-2004, 06:09 PM   #74
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Originally posted by Michael Griffiths
Haha, E-Monkey! It is very hot here...but there are surprisingly few people in this particular cyber cafe at the moment.

Tell me how the Canucks' two new players look. Can you give me the new line combinations? Is Morrison still playing with Naslund? I would imagine Sanderson is playing with Naslund and Morrison, correct?

Okay, I just wanted to say one thing about Vancouver people, as some on here have given them a bad rap. Vancouver is a great, beautiful city, with many great and beautiful people. How cheesy that sounds, I know...but the truth is, it is chocked full of very smart, open, active and exciting people, who have a zest for life. Like any place, you'll find some immature twits, no question - especially at a hockey game! But when Moore was taken away by stretcher, people clapped for him. The few boneheads at the game would be found in any hockey rink in N. America. Anyway, just my 2 cents about Vancouver.

Bye for now!
Hey I hope your having a good time ! in all honesty I haven't watched that much Canucks for the past month since school (BCIT) is getting crazy with projects and tests. I can say that from what I've seen Sanderson, Rucinsky are really good and actually very impressive and will be an important part of our playoffs I think. They both were even named in the 3 stars after the game they won with Sanderson getting 1st star I think and Rucinsky getting 3rd. They're playing tonight at 7pm and i'm gonna watch that game if it's on tv and i'll keep you posted. The only problem they're having without Bertuzzi is how he can go in front of the net and cause problems and give Naslund an opening, so now they have to re strategize which is causing them problems because it makes it hard for them to keep the puck in the offensive zone without getting as many good shotsand without losing the puck, but i know they will adapt. They have 10 games left and I think they'll win at least 5 of them which is good enough to get in the playoffs so it's all good right now. Hey have a Samosa for the interference gang !
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Old 03-16-2004, 11:06 PM   #75
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Did anyone see the Toronto/Buffalo game? How about that Niewendyke, pulling off Chris Drury's helmet, pushing him over his downed goaltender, then pulling him up off the ice and slamming his head down against it? Drury left the game with a mild concussion and did not return. No penalty on the play, no suspension, no review, no legal drama; not premeditated, but clearly intentional when he tumbles the guy to the ice, picks him up and pushes him down to whack his helmetless head to the ice. But it was let slide, and nobody's spoken a word about it.

Would it be a bigger deal if, instead of a mild concussion, he had been knocked out instead? Even though, for anyone who's not had as many concussions as I have (5), the difference between the two is blurry at best, and theyre not necessarily any less dangerous to your life-long health. I just like how Bertuzzi is supposedly a criminal, but when it happens to buffalo (after all, noone's a buffalo fan) noone really cares; okay, thats too flippant, I like how injury is insubstantial grounds for socio-political hubbub but serious injury is (as if any head injury is not a serious injury). One is assault, the other is not; though many people would argue neither are part of the game.
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