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Old 03-11-2004, 02:30 AM   #46
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Originally posted by DaveC


I don't want to say I told you so but...

Anyways, that doesn't matter anymore. I'm past that now, and it's pretty irrelevant anyways.
I *never* said the information was wrong. I simply questioned why, if it was correct, it hadn't been released to more media organizations, especially given the wide concern over Moore's condition. I still believe they didn't release anything official because they still didn't have a definite diagnosis because the swelling hadn't gone down.

Since we are discussing fact versus rumor, I should point out that the article I posted had inaccuracies, as the Avalanche have since reported he didn't suffer any spinal nerve damage, as reported earlier by the AP. See, skepticism is a good thing.

I am just glad he is going to make a full recovery.
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Old 03-11-2004, 05:11 AM   #47
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1. I'm guessing 20-25 games. Simply because of pressure from the press, and various other groups who don't watch hockey beyond the disney vernacular. A more recent blind-siding was Domi on Niedermayer, and that cost Tie the remainder of the playoff year, as well as a few in the following season.

2. There's a difference between violence and controlled contact. Don't banner all checking and on-ice interaction as being detrimental to the game. It's optimistic to assume that removing the physical aspect of hockey would decrease events of this magnitude... in actual fact it would inevitably propagate malicious acts. Just look at the implementation of the instigator penalty (and retaliatory rules), and the increase in stickwork and targetting of players. Minor plays of the like only escalate situations, especially when they are not regulated by the referees. The injury to Moore occurred in a similar sequence of events. If the hockey community expects accountability out of its players, then it should set back the officiating mandate... not impose further restriction because of rising interest and pressure from a reactionary group with fleeting attention spans.

3. Historically the NHL has had incidents like these, even in the days of Terrible Ted and the Gordie Howe Hat trick... but changes in equipment and television exposure has decreased respect and increased awareness. Things like this will always happen, but to limit the frequency of occurence, the answer is through precedent and consistent resolve. Said more succintly, don't make things worse.

4. Did someone actually use Pardon the Interruption as a source for hockey information?

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Old 03-11-2004, 07:43 AM   #48
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Plain and simple...when Moore is able to play NHL hockey again, then Bertuzzi should be allowed to as well.
If this were to cost Moore his career, then it should cost Bertuzzi his as well.
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Old 03-11-2004, 07:49 AM   #49
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i have to say, after bertuzzi's apology, i'm satisfied, and have a little more respect for the man now. that's all that i was really looking for, was for todd to admit that what he did was wrong, to step up and take responsibility, and also to acknowledge the ramifications that those actions had. i think he still deserves whatever punnishment he gets, but i realize that i am in no position to decide this punnishment, and the people working in the league office are there for a reason, and will make a reasonable judgement.

i am also glad to hear that steve moore is okay! a neck injury is always scary, but (knock on wood) this will hopefully be no worse than a "broken arm."

and pinball, i did reference PTI, but not for "hockey information" as such. i thought that wilbon had a decent opinion regarding the length of bertuzzi's suspension. i know that almost no one on espn is too knowledgable in regards to hockey matters, especially outside of the national hockey night, and nhl 2night crews (linda cohn, i'm talking to you).
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Old 03-11-2004, 09:53 AM   #50
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Rest of the season, including playoffs.
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Old 03-11-2004, 11:49 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by LarryMullen's_POPAngel
Rest of the season, including playoffs.
Can I call em, or what?




Now, hockey is a violent game, and I stand by my previous statements on legality, and about the fact that this sort of thing has been happening as long as hockey has been played professionally. MSN, in all its hit-and-miss glory, pulled up a nice gem today.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/columns/top...lowlights.html


Most vicious (often retaliatory) attacks in NHL history. Interestingly enough, some of the ones I was referencing arent even on this list. Like it or leave it, this is the way the game has always been played, and people playing the game know it to be true.

Incidentally, I have chronic knee pain from playing hockey, can't even play hockey anymore, and Im only 19. So, tell me that knee-on-knee hits arent as severe, important, or devestating. However, its part of the game, theres a reason that all these dirty hits have penalties and suspensions that go along with them. Ending someones career, with a stick to the head, or a knee to a knee, is still ending someones career - and, I reiterate, if you involve the law, you cannot discern the differences between two nearly-identical types of assault. From there, it all goes downhill. If hockey is too violent for you, watch european hockey; otherwise, what's to say that changing the very core of the game is the right thing to do? We are a violent society, and anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. You don't have to like it, but its not going to change a few thousand years of Western history.
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Old 03-11-2004, 12:47 PM   #52
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I haven't read the decision bit I heard it on the radio this morning. I'm not satisfied. I don't think it went far enough and I don't like the fact that it is open ended for further review. It sounds to me like the league wanted to give him a bigger suspension but were afraid to do it. This review process leaves the door open if they get too much negative press after their initial decision.

It was great to hear that Steve Moore is going to recover.

I watched Todd Bertuzzi's apology on tv last night and feel that he is truly sorry for what happened. It was nice that he apologized, so many times terrible things happen and the 'bad guy' doesn't apologize.
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Old 03-11-2004, 03:47 PM   #53
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I am glad to see that the team was also fined $250,000.00. The coach is also accountable. Bertuzzi was not alone in this.
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Old 03-12-2004, 10:19 AM   #54
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I think the punishment fits the crime!

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Old 03-12-2004, 10:24 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by fah
I haven't read the decision bit I heard it on the radio this morning. I'm not satisfied. I don't think it went far enough and I don't like the fact that it is open ended for further review. It sounds to me like the league wanted to give him a bigger suspension but were afraid to do it. This review process leaves the door open if they get too much negative press after their initial decision.
I think the open ended part of the suspension, Bertuzzi needing to apply for re-instatement is a wise move. My guess is the leagu will see what Moore's recovery is, and if he is able to play at the beginning of next season (if there is one), then Bertuzzi will also be cleared to play. And if Moore's injuries end up being more serious than currently suspected, Bertuzzi serves longer, hopefully a death penalty to his playing days if Moore is unable to lace 'em up again.
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Old 03-12-2004, 11:27 AM   #56
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This guy blames Canada-

Bertuzzi a part of Hockey's Culture
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Old 03-12-2004, 01:13 PM   #57
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a guy in the boston globe things the nhl should ban fighting
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Old 03-12-2004, 01:24 PM   #58
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Originally posted by IWasBored
a guy in the boston globe things the nhl should ban fighting
i hate uninformed columnists who say things like this. they fail to realize that fighting is an integral part of hockey, and has its own time honored traditions and customs. some have gone so far as to say that the only reason fighting is around, is for the commercial benefit (playing to the wwf culture, or some bs like that).

fighting is a necessary part of hockey, and even has five pages devoted to it in the rulebook. it will never go away.

that being said, other violence in hockey needs to be corrected. incidents like the one in vancouver on monday have nothing to do with fighting. they are simply examples of the fact that some players simply have no respect for the well being of their peers. they operate outside of the rules, and deserve punnishment for their actions
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Old 03-12-2004, 02:24 PM   #59
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A few things:

Read the quote below concerning the whole Bertuzzi incident.

Quote:
Originally said by NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman
The message we're sending is that this is not part of our game, it has no place in our game and it will not be tolerated in our game.
I think a few others in this thread said that actions like what Bertuzzi did was part of the norm in the NHL....something that should be "expected" when you get on the ice. Seems like there is a bit confusion on your part...according to the head of the NHL...this is NOT part of hockey. Doesn't matter HOW MANY years you have played.

second:


Quote:
Originally said by Bertuzzi
These comments are for Steve. I had no intention of hurting you. I feel awful for what transpired.
He is an outright LIAR. No one aims for a playing like bertuzzi did without intent to injure. AND< I doubt he would feel "awful" if he didn't injure Moore as bad as he did.

I hope he doesn't get reinstated.

THIRD:

ALL the talk in EVERY paper I pick up today is about hockey and fighting. Even Paul Martin has made a statement.

Quote:
[i]Originally said by Canadian PM Paul Martin
I think that Canadians feel that there is a problem with hockey, there's a problem with violence in sports and that it should be dealt with. I'd certainly say (to professional hockey), "lean up your act.''.
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Old 03-12-2004, 02:44 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by zoney!

He is an outright LIAR. No one aims for a playing like bertuzzi did without intent to injure. AND< I doubt he would feel "awful" if he didn't injure Moore as bad as he did.

I must agree 100% here...to say he had no intent to hurt Moore is absolute bullsh*t. He was pissed Moore wouldn't drop the gloves, which he already had earlier in the game with someone more his size, which should have squared the incident, and he not only sucker punched him, but then pounced on him (and from replays it was clear Moore was unconscious befor hitting the ice) and attempted to pound on him some more, how can he say he didn't mean to hurt him.
I think if Bertuzzi never set foot on an NHL sheet of ice again, forfeiting millions in salary, it might get the mesage across to some others.
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