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Old 02-12-2002, 02:14 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:
But yeah, the ice-dance judging... I can't wait. *sarcasm*
Me neither. And imagine the excitement of those athletes, the pain, the training, their time away from home, all for one chance to be screwed by block judging. How appetizing.

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Old 02-12-2002, 02:16 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram:
Me neither. And imagine the excitement of those athletes, the pain, the training, their time away from home, all for one chance to be screwed by block judging. How appetizing.

Anyone remember the ice-dancing at Lillehammer? If I recall correctly, the pair who won broke a TON of iron-clad laws ie. apart for longer than allowed, illegal lifts, etc. and still won the damn thing. And here I thought those rules led to automatic deductions regardless of the nationality of the competitors. blah.
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Old 02-12-2002, 02:34 PM   #33
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Examples of Block Judging:
1992 - Albertville
Isabelle Brasseur and Llyod Eisler of Canada receive bronze. As this is all from memory, I can't remember the exact reason why they were upset, but there was something...I believe it had to do with unfair marking (they deserved silver).
1994 - Lillehammer
-Oksana Baiul(Ukraine) wins over Nancy Kerrigan by the narrowest of margins--a tenth of a point
-Alexsei Urmanov (Russia)wins over Elvis Stojko. Elvis receives 5.5 from the Russian judge for Artisitc Presentation.
-Oksana Gritschuk and Evgeny Platov(Russia) win over Jane Torvill and Christopher Dean. The win is dubbed one of ice dance's largest contoversies, as the Russian pair blatently do not conform to the rules (they are apart for more than 10 seconds, an ice dance rule and worth losing points over).

1998 - Nagano
-Oksana Gritschuk (now called Pasha Gritschuk) and Evgeny Platov win ice dance (despite Pasha misstepping in one of the compulsories, they are still ranked first with 8 of 9 judges). They are followed by the Russian team Anjelika Krylova and Oleg Ovsyannikov. France's Marina Anissina and Gwendal Peizerat finish third. Canada's Shae-Lynn Bourne and Vitor Kraatz finish a disappointing fourth, despite placing third in the free skate (overall judging places them fourth throughout the entire competition). Controversy smokes--Krylova and Ovsyannikov speak out (they were better than Gritschuk and Platov).

POINT OF INTEREST:

Russians have won pairs figure skating the past 11 consecutive olympics. Yikes.

QUOTE:

"I don't feel awful at all," Bourne said in 1998. "In fact, I feel like laughing. It's more of a joke than anything. You just look at it, laugh at it, and get past it. We skated so well, it's stupid, isn't it?"
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Old 02-12-2002, 02:54 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by The_Sweetest_Thing:
1992 - Albertville
Isabelle Brasseur and Llyod Eisler of Canada receive bronze. As this is all from memory, I can't remember the exact reason why they were upset, but there was something...I believe it had to do with unfair marking (they deserved silver).
As for Brasseur and Eisler..that was a close call. The pair who won the silver was Russian and it could have gone either way. Both of them made mistakes if I recall correctly. It came down to a matter of stylistic preference and of course the judges tend to go with the classical style over the modern. One thing I will say about '92 tho...the gold medal winners totally deserved their placement. I don't think I've ever seen a better performance and program than was given by Natalia Mishketonek and Artur Dimitriev that night. Absolutely flawless, passionate, and entrancing...just what figure skating OUGHT to be.

Quote:
1994 - Lillehammer
-Oksana Baiul(Ukraine) wins over Nancy Kerrigan by the narrowest of margins--a tenth of a point
-Alexsei Urmanov (Russia)wins over Elvis Stojko. Elvis receives 5.5 from the Russian judge for Artisitc Presentation.
The judging in Lillehammer was a crock. Every event was pretty obviously biased. Alexsei couldn't spin to save his life and all of his performances were so flat it was embarrassing. And don't get me started on Oksana Baiul.

Quote:

-Oksana Gritschuk and Evgeny Platov(Russia) win over Jane Torvill and Christopher Dean. The win is dubbed one of ice dance's largest contoversies, as the Russian pair blatently do not conform to the rules (they are apart for more than 10 seconds, an ice dance rule and worth losing points over).
Yes, that's the pair I was thinking of. That was so blatant it was sickening. Don't the words "mandatory deduction" mean anything? gah.
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Old 02-12-2002, 05:04 PM   #35
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<TROLL>
No matter how physically taxing or difficult it is, any event that requires judges to evaluate its "artistic merit" should not be
considered a "sport".
</TROLL>
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Old 02-12-2002, 05:25 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer:
<TROLL>
No matter how physically taxing or difficult it is, any event that requires judges to evaluate its "artistic merit" should not be
considered a "sport".
</TROLL>

So diving isnt a sport then? Or freestyle snowboarding/skiing with jumps and such?

Ill tell you what arent sports, billiards, darts, baseball, golf, table tennis, bowling, curling... how these things ever got classified as sports is far beyond me.
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Old 02-12-2002, 05:28 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer:
<TROLL>
No matter how physically taxing or difficult it is, any event that requires judges to evaluate its "artistic merit" should not be
considered a "sport".
</TROLL>
come back after you've landed a few triple axels and then we can talk about it.
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Old 02-12-2002, 05:49 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by ~unforgettableFOXfire~:

So diving isnt a sport then? Or freestyle snowboarding/skiing with jumps and such?

Ill tell you what arent sports, billiards, darts, baseball, golf, table tennis, bowling, curling... how these things ever got classified as sports is far beyond me.
Since you insist on feeding the trolls...

The degree to which an activity is physically taxing seems to be your sole criterion for determining whether or not it is a sport. But even by your criterion, I think baseball and table tennis should be classified as sports.

My point was that the subjective aspect of activities like figure skating, ice dance, ballroom dance, gymnastics, freestyle skiing, half-pipe snow/skateboarding, freestyle frisbee, competitive cheerleading, synchronized swimming, etc. in my opinion ruins their sport-worthiness. Diving is borderline--the judging criteria seem to be more objective (keep your legs straight, enter the water vertically, etc.) than for other activities. If gymnastics eliminated the floor exercise, I'd consider it more sport-worthy.

Another criterion that's important to me (but not a strict litmus test) is whether or not the activity is naturally competitive or artifically competitive. (Activities that are naturally competitive include football, billiards, chess, baseball and curling; activities that are artificially competitive include figure skating, dance, gymnastics and some track events.)

[This message has been edited by speedracer (edited 02-12-2002).]
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Old 02-12-2002, 05:51 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by ~unforgettableFOXfire~:
Ill tell you what arent sports, billiards, darts, baseball, golf, table tennis, bowling, curling... how these things ever got classified as sports is far beyond me.
To be honest, I'm oddly fascinated by curling. I sit here for hours, watching the Canadian teams with absolutely no understanding of the game whatsoever. I see those rocks, and to me, every shot is pretty good, since I have no clue what it is they're actually attempting to do. My grandmother watched, and said to me, "Gee, those men should come and sweep my kitchen! They're good!"
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Old 02-12-2002, 05:56 PM   #40
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Originally posted by anitram:
To be honest, I'm oddly fascinated by curling. I sit here for hours, watching the Canadian teams with absolutely no understanding of the game whatsoever. I see those rocks, and to me, every shot is pretty good, since I have no clue what it is they're actually attempting to do. My grandmother watched, and said to me, "Gee, those men should come and sweep my kitchen! They're good!"
I think it's like shuffleboard, except those guys with the brooms scrape the ice to help the puck decelerate.
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Old 02-12-2002, 06:02 PM   #41
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Really you might say all sports are 'judged'. I have seen many a football and basketball game thrown because of bad calls. Just like those skating and boxing judges, the outcome of ball games can be altered by biased officials. I guess there's nothing honest but rock and roll.

Speaking of cheat ball games, the 1972 Olympic mens' basketball team (US) refused their silver metals, they didn't even come out onto the podium in protest because the game was thrown to give the Russians the victory. It had something to do with the clock continuing to be reset after it had run out until the Russians managed to score enough points, I'm not sure but it is documented that this happened.



[This message has been edited by *Stormy* (edited 02-12-2002).]
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Old 02-12-2002, 06:06 PM   #42
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Oh, and Jamie and David will be on Jay Leno tonight, if anybody wants to watch.
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Old 02-12-2002, 06:09 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by *Stormy*:
Really you might say all sports are 'judged'. I have seen many a football and basketball game thrown because of bad calls. Just like those skating and boxing judges, the outcome of ball games can be altered by biased officials. I guess there's nothing honest but rock and roll.
True, but you can still play a football or basketball game without refs and keep a reasonable score. You can figure skate without judges, but you can't keep score without them.
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Old 02-12-2002, 06:15 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram:
To be honest, I'm oddly fascinated by curling. I sit here for hours, watching the Canadian teams with absolutely no understanding of the game whatsoever. I see those rocks, and to me, every shot is pretty good, since I have no clue what it is they're actually attempting to do. My grandmother watched, and said to me, "Gee, those men should come and sweep my kitchen! They're good!"
Question for the "neighbors to the North":

Last night, NBC mentioned in one of their broadcasts that Curling is almost as watched as "Hockey Night" in Canada. Is this true? And I am serious....
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Old 02-12-2002, 06:20 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:
come back after you've landed a few triple axels and then we can talk about it.
I guess I'm not allowed to comment on U2's music either. Bummer.
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