Canada just got ROBBED!!!!

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Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:
But yeah, the ice-dance judging...
mad.gif
I can't wait. *sarcasm*

Me neither. And imagine the excitement of those athletes, the pain, the training, their time away from home, all for one chance to be screwed by block judging. How appetizing.
 
Originally posted by anitram:
Me neither. And imagine the excitement of those athletes, the pain, the training, their time away from home, all for one chance to be screwed by block judging. How appetizing.


Anyone remember the ice-dancing at Lillehammer? If I recall correctly, the pair who won broke a TON of iron-clad laws ie. apart for longer than allowed, illegal lifts, etc. and still won the damn thing. And here I thought those rules led to automatic deductions regardless of the nationality of the competitors. blah.
 
Examples of Block Judging:
1992 - Albertville
Isabelle Brasseur and Llyod Eisler of Canada receive bronze. As this is all from memory, I can't remember the exact reason why they were upset, but there was something...I believe it had to do with unfair marking (they deserved silver).
1994 - Lillehammer
-Oksana Baiul(Ukraine) wins over Nancy Kerrigan by the narrowest of margins--a tenth of a point
-Alexsei Urmanov (Russia)wins over Elvis Stojko. Elvis receives 5.5 from the Russian judge for Artisitc Presentation.
-Oksana Gritschuk and Evgeny Platov(Russia) win over Jane Torvill and Christopher Dean. The win is dubbed one of ice dance's largest contoversies, as the Russian pair blatently do not conform to the rules (they are apart for more than 10 seconds, an ice dance rule and worth losing points over).

1998 - Nagano
-Oksana Gritschuk (now called Pasha Gritschuk) and Evgeny Platov win ice dance (despite Pasha misstepping in one of the compulsories, they are still ranked first with 8 of 9 judges). They are followed by the Russian team Anjelika Krylova and Oleg Ovsyannikov. France's Marina Anissina and Gwendal Peizerat finish third. Canada's Shae-Lynn Bourne and Vitor Kraatz finish a disappointing fourth, despite placing third in the free skate (overall judging places them fourth throughout the entire competition). Controversy smokes--Krylova and Ovsyannikov speak out (they were better than Gritschuk and Platov).

POINT OF INTEREST:

Russians have won pairs figure skating the past 11 consecutive olympics. Yikes.

QUOTE:

"I don't feel awful at all," Bourne said in 1998. "In fact, I feel like laughing. It's more of a joke than anything. You just look at it, laugh at it, and get past it. We skated so well, it's stupid, isn't it?"
 
Originally posted by The_Sweetest_Thing:
1992 - Albertville
Isabelle Brasseur and Llyod Eisler of Canada receive bronze. As this is all from memory, I can't remember the exact reason why they were upset, but there was something...I believe it had to do with unfair marking (they deserved silver).

As for Brasseur and Eisler..that was a close call. The pair who won the silver was Russian and it could have gone either way. Both of them made mistakes if I recall correctly. It came down to a matter of stylistic preference and of course the judges tend to go with the classical style over the modern. One thing I will say about '92 tho...the gold medal winners totally deserved their placement. I don't think I've ever seen a better performance and program than was given by Natalia Mishketonek and Artur Dimitriev that night. Absolutely flawless, passionate, and entrancing...just what figure skating OUGHT to be.

1994 - Lillehammer
-Oksana Baiul(Ukraine) wins over Nancy Kerrigan by the narrowest of margins--a tenth of a point
-Alexsei Urmanov (Russia)wins over Elvis Stojko. Elvis receives 5.5 from the Russian judge for Artisitc Presentation.

The judging in Lillehammer was a crock. Every event was pretty obviously biased. Alexsei couldn't spin to save his life and all of his performances were so flat it was embarrassing. And don't get me started on Oksana Baiul.
mad.gif



-Oksana Gritschuk and Evgeny Platov(Russia) win over Jane Torvill and Christopher Dean. The win is dubbed one of ice dance's largest contoversies, as the Russian pair blatently do not conform to the rules (they are apart for more than 10 seconds, an ice dance rule and worth losing points over).

Yes, that's the pair I was thinking of. That was so blatant it was sickening. Don't the words "mandatory deduction" mean anything? gah.
 
<TROLL>
No matter how physically taxing or difficult it is, any event that requires judges to evaluate its "artistic merit" should not be
considered a "sport".
</TROLL>
 
Originally posted by speedracer:
<TROLL>
No matter how physically taxing or difficult it is, any event that requires judges to evaluate its "artistic merit" should not be
considered a "sport".
</TROLL>


So diving isnt a sport then? Or freestyle snowboarding/skiing with jumps and such?

Ill tell you what arent sports, billiards, darts, baseball, golf, table tennis, bowling, curling... how these things ever got classified as sports is far beyond me.
 
Originally posted by speedracer:
<TROLL>
No matter how physically taxing or difficult it is, any event that requires judges to evaluate its "artistic merit" should not be
considered a "sport".
</TROLL>

come back after you've landed a few triple axels and then we can talk about it.
tongue.gif
 
Originally posted by ~unforgettableFOXfire~:

So diving isnt a sport then? Or freestyle snowboarding/skiing with jumps and such?

Ill tell you what arent sports, billiards, darts, baseball, golf, table tennis, bowling, curling... how these things ever got classified as sports is far beyond me.

Since you insist on feeding the trolls...
smile.gif


The degree to which an activity is physically taxing seems to be your sole criterion for determining whether or not it is a sport. But even by your criterion, I think baseball and table tennis should be classified as sports.

My point was that the subjective aspect of activities like figure skating, ice dance, ballroom dance, gymnastics, freestyle skiing, half-pipe snow/skateboarding, freestyle frisbee, competitive cheerleading, synchronized swimming, etc. in my opinion ruins their sport-worthiness. Diving is borderline--the judging criteria seem to be more objective (keep your legs straight, enter the water vertically, etc.) than for other activities. If gymnastics eliminated the floor exercise, I'd consider it more sport-worthy.

Another criterion that's important to me (but not a strict litmus test) is whether or not the activity is naturally competitive or artifically competitive. (Activities that are naturally competitive include football, billiards, chess, baseball and curling; activities that are artificially competitive include figure skating, dance, gymnastics and some track events.)

[This message has been edited by speedracer (edited 02-12-2002).]
 
Originally posted by ~unforgettableFOXfire~:
Ill tell you what arent sports, billiards, darts, baseball, golf, table tennis, bowling, curling... how these things ever got classified as sports is far beyond me.

To be honest, I'm oddly fascinated by curling. I sit here for hours, watching the Canadian teams with absolutely no understanding of the game whatsoever. I see those rocks, and to me, every shot is pretty good, since I have no clue what it is they're actually attempting to do. My grandmother watched, and said to me, "Gee, those men should come and sweep my kitchen! They're good!"
 
Originally posted by anitram:
To be honest, I'm oddly fascinated by curling. I sit here for hours, watching the Canadian teams with absolutely no understanding of the game whatsoever. I see those rocks, and to me, every shot is pretty good, since I have no clue what it is they're actually attempting to do. My grandmother watched, and said to me, "Gee, those men should come and sweep my kitchen! They're good!"

I think it's like shuffleboard, except those guys with the brooms scrape the ice to help the puck decelerate.
 
Really you might say all sports are 'judged'. I have seen many a football and basketball game thrown because of bad calls. Just like those skating and boxing judges, the outcome of ball games can be altered by biased officials. I guess there's nothing honest but rock and roll.

Speaking of cheat ball games, the 1972 Olympic mens' basketball team (US) refused their silver metals, they didn't even come out onto the podium in protest because the game was thrown to give the Russians the victory. It had something to do with the clock continuing to be reset after it had run out until the Russians managed to score enough points, I'm not sure but it is documented that this happened.



[This message has been edited by *Stormy* (edited 02-12-2002).]
 
Oh, and Jamie and David will be on Jay Leno tonight, if anybody wants to watch.
smile.gif
 
Originally posted by *Stormy*:
Really you might say all sports are 'judged'. I have seen many a football and basketball game thrown because of bad calls. Just like those skating and boxing judges, the outcome of ball games can be altered by biased officials. I guess there's nothing honest but rock and roll.

True, but you can still play a football or basketball game without refs and keep a reasonable score. You can figure skate without judges, but you can't keep score without them.
 
Originally posted by anitram:
To be honest, I'm oddly fascinated by curling. I sit here for hours, watching the Canadian teams with absolutely no understanding of the game whatsoever. I see those rocks, and to me, every shot is pretty good, since I have no clue what it is they're actually attempting to do. My grandmother watched, and said to me, "Gee, those men should come and sweep my kitchen! They're good!"

Question for the "neighbors to the North":

Last night, NBC mentioned in one of their broadcasts that Curling is almost as watched as "Hockey Night" in Canada. Is this true? And I am serious....
 
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:
come back after you've landed a few triple axels and then we can talk about it.
tongue.gif

I guess I'm not allowed to comment on U2's music either. Bummer.
 
Originally posted by zonelistener:
Question for the "neighbors to the North":

Last night, NBC mentioned in one of their broadcasts that Curling is almost as watched as "Hockey Night" in Canada. Is this true? And I am serious....

I would think this is a gross overstatement. Hockey Night in Canada, with Don Cherry shooting his mouth off is a huge show. I'm sure people watch curling, but that many people? I doubt it.
 
Originally posted by speedracer:
I guess I'm not allowed to comment on U2's music either. Bummer.

rolleyes.gif
That's an absurd comparison and you know it. Feel free to troll elsewhere.
 
Originally posted by speedracer:
<TROLL>
No matter how physically taxing or difficult it is, any event that requires judges to evaluate its "artistic merit" should not be
considered a "sport".
</TROLL>

Hah. well call it competitive artistry if you like... I don't care if it's classified as a sport but figure skating still deserves a place in the olympics
 
uh, not to change the subject or anything, but has anyone seen the American ice dancing couple, Naomi Lang (only Native American to compete in a Winter Olympics)and Peter Tchemyshev? Hey, we all know they have a snowballs chance, but, oyyyyyy, Peter is a cutie pie!!! At least judging from the picture in the LA Times today. The article in online but there's no picture....

The latest word is that the International Skating union will conduct an "internal assessment" into last night's judging (or lack of it!)
 
Originally posted by jezebel:
The latest word is that the International Skating union will conduct an "internal assessment" into last night's judging (or lack of it!)

Yeah...this from cnn.com

SALT LAKE CITY (CNN) -- The International Skating Union announced Tuesday that it will conduct an "internal assessment" into a controversial judging decision at the finals of the Olympic pairs figure skating competition Monday night, where the coveted gold medal went to a Russian pair who stumbled, rather than to a Canadian couple who didn't.

In a statement issued after a routine review of Monday's judging, the ISU, the sports federation governing figure skating, said it will try to determine whether "the ISU rules and procedures have been respected."

Canada's Jamie Sale and David Pelletier, the reigning world champions, skated what the crowd in the Salt Lake Ice Center judged as a nearly flawless performance in their long program Monday night.

But five of the nine judges put them behind the Russian couple of Yelena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze who took the gold.

During the Russian pair's final skate, Sikharulidze bobbled the landing on a double axel jump. Fans in the arena who saw both couples skate booed and jeered as the results were posted. The decision has sparked outrage across Canada, where the headlines on two major newspapers read, simply, "Robbed!"

"We have no control over this. It's not the [Russian] skaters fault, either. We do our job, and the judges do their job, and they are human, too," said Sale. "We're not sure what happened, but we're just really happy with what we did." Judges from Russia, China, Poland, Ukraine and France placed the Russians first; judges from the United States, Canada, Germany and Japan gave the nod to Sale and Pelletier.

The results raised anew a long-running controversy over block voting, in which judges have been accused of voting together to favor skaters from their regions, broken down along Cold War lines.

Four of the judges who voted for the Russians are from former Soviet or communist countries; the four who voted for the Canadians are from countries in the Western bloc. The French judge was the exception, going with the Russians -- somewhat ironic, considering that Pelletier is French-Canadian.

After the decision, he told the Canadian media that he was considering hanging up his skates.

"After a night like tonight, you badly want to cut your figure skating career short," he told the Toronto Globe and Mail.

In the 1998 Nagano Games, a Canadian judge publicly raised charges of block voting in the ice dance competition, which led the ISU to issue new procedures to review controversial decisions.
 
sula - I REALLY thought that M&D deserved gold in 94. I was crushed that they didn't. They were PHENOMENAL-->AMAZING. I loved the spin at the end. I prefer the dramatic, emotional myself, over the simple elegance of G&G. G&G were good, I love Moonlight Sonata, but not the best. And I felt that Eisler and Brasseur were terribly underrated. Though it was a close call. I wouldn't have wanted to be a judge that night! That's the problem with professionals being allowed to compete again...

Stormy - I wonder too about Michelle Kwan, although I think the medal will go to Irina Slutskaya. She's good, so good. But then again, so is Michelle. It really comes down to who skates better on THAT night.


Which brings me to my next point. One of the commentators (Barbara Underhill) said that perhaps the judges felt bored w/ Love Story because they had seen it before. But the Olympic Games are to test how the person(s) perfom ON THAT NIGHT...not three years ago, two months ago, or in practice the day before.

*Sigh*

Sale and Pelltier are more famous now that they DIDN'T win...it's weird. The IOC is to look into it, I've read. What they SHOULD do is award the gold to S&P....but leave the other gold w/ B&S. Have 2 golds (it's happened in other sports). That would be the fair thing. Admit a mistake had been made, don't punish the Russians, rectify the error, and whoooosh!

[This message has been edited by The_Sweetest_Thing (edited 02-12-2002).]
 
Now I haven't seen all the analysis, cause I'm at school, but my dad says when you add the scores, the Polish and Chinese judges actually TIED the Canadians and Russians. That's not what they're there for. They're there to PICK A WINNER. In the end, it was the French that lost it for them, cause the mark goes to who got the higher artistic impression mark. And that went to the Russians (why??)

Looks like Pelltier was right when he said they lost it because of the French judge...
 
Well, I'm not really an expert but I think the judges held Elvis down...who was the turkeyhead (I can think of much ruder epithets, but anyway) who gave him 4.9?!

His interview afterward was a bit strange. He said "I felt great during the whole program" but obviously he wasn't totally happy. Not surprising. I wonder if he was thinking evil thoughts about judges, or if he was annoyed with himself, or? But if they played him that low just for not landing the quad properly and doing everything else fine, how high would he have placed even had he landed the quad?



------------------
Love was never a single emotion

-ACROB@T
 
Keep in mind folks, that Elvis moved on his spin...a flaw. I still think he was more dynamic than Pluschenko, and the 4.9 was a friggen joke. He deserves to be anywhere from 4-7. Really.
Let's just wish him luck in the long...
 
True about the spin. I still think he deserved to be absolutely no lower than 6th. Anyway, I am just sincerely proud of him for coming back the way he is from the problems that have plagued him, well, since the last Olympics (I remember getting up in the middle of the night to see his long program in Nagano and crying, especially when I realized how well he had skated when he was badly injured...). I have to admit that even last year when he was talking about being at the Olympics, I was afraid that it might just end up being sad. As it is, he will definitely go out of the Olympics having acquitted himself with honor.



------------------
Love was never a single emotion

-ACROB@T
 
Originally posted by scatteroflight:
True about the spin. I still think he deserved to be absolutely no lower than 6th. Anyway, I am just sincerely proud of him for coming back the way he is from the problems that have plagued him, well, since the last Olympics (I remember getting up in the middle of the night to see his long program in Nagano and crying, especially when I realized how well he had skated when he was badly injured...). I have to admit that even last year when he was talking about being at the Olympics, I was afraid that it might just end up being sad. As it is, he will definitely go out of the Olympics having acquitted himself with honor.


Yeah, I cried too. Elvis....I always wonder if things had been different if he would have won gold in 94...if he would still be around.

He already HAS honour--we know it. This is just his way of showing it to the rest of the world.
 
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