Canada awarded the gold for pairs skating!

[muh2o]

Interesting.

 

[muh2o]

...apparently they are SHARING the gold w/ the Russian skaters.

 

[Foxxern]

Beat me to it. It's all over the news. Very interesting. But what kind of precedent does this set for the role of human error in judging? I'm not sure how I feel about the issue, but I'm happy for the Canadians.

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Change is the only constant

 

[elevatedmole]

Great! They definitely both deserve a gold medal.
But what about the other pair? (Can't remember the name) Are they still getting bronze?

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"Very strange looking object you have at the end of your stick.." - Bono

"Bono looks too intense for me." - Rollercoaster Tycoon park guest

"I was drunk, high on him, a shrinking, shadowboxing dwarf following in his foosteps...badly...STARSTRUCK.." - Bono, on meeting Frank Sinatra for the first time

"Bono? Bono is going to tie ropes around my neck? Wait a minute.." - Edge, when shooting the 'Numb' video

 

[The_Sweetest_Thing]

February 14 ? NBC?s Kelly O?Donnell reports from Salt Lake about the latest on the Pelletier and Sale controversy.
THE FRENCH JUDGE in the middle of the dispute was suspended.
The highly unusual decision by top Olympic and skating officials also allows the Russian pair to keep their gold medal, which was narrowly won during Monday night?s free skate program.
The gold medal was awarded to Canadians Jamie Sale and David Pelletier at the suggestion of the International Skating Union.
The ISU and the International Olympic Committee announced the decision at a joint news conference attended by IOC president Jacques Rogge and ISU head Ottavio Cinquanta.
The move came just hours before the case was to be heard by an international arbitration panel for sport.
The controversy began when Sale and Pelletier were beaten by Elena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze of Russia after a 5-4 vote that surprised many observers. The Canadians skated a flawless program while the Russians made a couple of technical errors.
The decision allowed the Russians to extend their streak of winning gold in the pairs in every Olympics since 1964.
Since Monday, there have been reports that French judge Marie-Reine Le Gougne was pressured to cast her vote for the Russians. The ISU had planned to review the scoring at a meeting next week, but the deal Friday allowed the matter to be settled in the swift manner the IOC urged.
French figure skating judge Marie Reine Le Gougne allegedly was pressured into influencing her pairs voting Monday night.
Canadian officials said they didn?t want the Russians stripped of the gold medal, but they believed Sale and Pelletier also should be rewarded if evidence of wrongdoing was uncovered.
France?s top Olympic official said Thursday that the French judge at the heart of the imbroglio voted honestly despite pressure from coaches.
The awarding of a second gold medal is not unprecedented, though the circumstances were significantly different.
In 1993, the IOC awarded a second gold medal in synchronized swimming from the Barcelona Games to Canada?s Sylvie Frechette. The IOC?s executive board agreed that Frechette was placed second because of a judging error and should be awarded a gold.
The decision came after the Canadian swimming federation protested because a Brazilian judge was not allowed to correct the 8.7 score she mistyped into her computer. The intended 9.7 would have given Frechette the gold. The IOC?s decision did not affect Kristen Babb-Sprague of the United States, who was originally awarded the gold and kept her medal.

From www.olympics.com

WOW!!! YES!

 

[jezebel]

Holy cow

I didn't really think that would happen!!!

 

[sulawesigirl4]

Awesome news. Really the fair thing to do and I'm glad that the ISU pulled it's head out of it's umm...hind places and saw the sense in it.

 

[kobayashi]

I understand the diplomatic function of the decision but it is still wrong. The Russian's don?t *deserve* Gold, it?s almost as if the institutions involved don?t want to bother with further embarrassment by awarding the Russians what is rightfully theirs-the Silver. If that Russian pair have any class they should come straight out right now and ask for a silver so that the history books tell the truth.

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don't.

[This message has been edited by kobayashi (edited 02-15-2002).]

 

[Peaseblossom]

I really am happy for them, however, this does set a precedent. How do we know that every sore loser ( not that I'm saying the Canadians were sore losers, anything but.) from now on won't say that the judging was unfair and get themselves a medal? Just to throw a wrench in the works....

 

[Klodomir]

Fair play.

 

[sulawesigirl4]

Originally posted by Peaseblossom:
I really am happy for them, however, this does set a precedent. How do we know that every sore loser ( not that I'm saying the Canadians were sore losers, anything but.) from now on won't say that the judging was unfair and get themselves a medal? Just to throw a wrench in the works....

How much figure skating have you actually watched? It's not unusual to have the judges voting along east-west bloc lines or to be trading votes. But normally it's not quite as clear-cut and harder to make a case that a skater was actually cheated. This time around, it was quite obvious and the fact of the matter is, I'm glad of the reprisal. Because figure skating needs to clean up its judging BIGTIME. If no one ever said anything, nothing would be done. It's not a matter of "whining" over not winning. It's a matter of fairness and of not having rigged judges and a level playing field. I highly doubt you will see a sudden rash of requests for changes in results...but hopefully more guidelines in the judging procedures to prevent these kinds of things from happening so often.

Oh and also...it's not a matter of randomly placing them first and giving them a medal just because they complained. The French judge was suspended for impropriety and her vote nullified, causing a tie between the pairs, so it only makes sense that they would be awarded a gold in this case.

[This message has been edited by sulawesigirl4 (edited 02-15-2002).]

 

[IvanClaytonJnr]

It was a rich big pressure from Canada , this is olympics and there is only one winner , canadians are behaving like amateurs or loosers . 'real' Fucking heroes of these Olympics whos program was two years old !!!
This is not justice , this is sport corruption .
This whole situation sucks !!!!!!!!!!!
Russian pair are the real champions .
A big black cloud on all SLC olympics 2002 events .

 

[icelady]

Originally posted by IvanClaytonJnr:
It was a rich big pressure from Canada , this is olympics and there is only one winner , canadians are behaving like amateurs or loosers . 'real' Fucking heroes of these Olympics whos program was two years old !!!
This is not justice , this is sport corruption .
This whole situation sucks !!!!!!!!!!!
Russian pair are the real champions .
A big black cloud on all SLC olympics 2002 events .

excuse me but rich big pressure from Canada. And here I thought it was the US media and others who cried foul - interesting interpretation of the news

 

[Klodomir]

Ivan, if you really feel that way, why don't you post your analysis of the two programmes and tell us why the Russians were better?

 

[IvanClaytonJnr]

Originally posted by Klodomir:
Ivan, if you really feel that way, why don't you post your analysis of the two programmes and tell us why the Russians were better?

OK , and you tell me why canadians were better , common ??!!!!

 

[IvanClaytonJnr]

this is intersting , imagine : team Canada lost to Finland in Final match , and Just After the Match -words from Gretzky and Eric Lindros with eyes full of tears : wait a second , that's not fair , we were robbed , we want gold medals also , besides all people here are on our side . "

 

[anitram]

Originally posted by IvanClaytonJnr:
OK , and you tell me why canadians were better , common ??!!!!

They skated an absolutely flawless program whereas the Russians had one clear mistake (Sikharulidze stepping out of a jump) and a couple of smaller mistakes (Berezhnaya landing on a stiff knee).

The Canadians had NO mistakes. Not one. It makes no difference how old the program is, in the past, gold medals have been won by programs that were 3-4 years old. The judges DO NOT vote on when the program was conceived, but on how it was performed. It's really as simple as that.

 

[Diemen]

Originally posted by IvanClaytonJnr:
this is intersting , imagine : team Canada lost to Finland in Final match , and Just After the Match -words from Gretzky and Eric Lindros with eyes full of tears : wait a second , that's not fair , we were robbed , we want gold medals also , besides all people here are on our side . "

Sorry Ivan, but that's a bunch of bullshit. In hockey it's clear who is the winner because you're competing directly against each other, not being judged by a panel.

If you watched the skating (which I doubt you did by your comments here), you would've seen that the Canadian duo clearly skated a flawless routine, whereas the Russian duo clearly made mistakes. If that isn't enough reason for you to suspect foul play and want an investigation, then I guess you're just naturally biased towards the Russians.

Besides, there is PROOF that the French judge was corrupted and pressured into judging for the Russians. This is not a case of allegations of corruption going unfounded. The corruption was uncovered, and if the competition was fairly judged, then it's obvious that the Canadians would've won. Which is why they were awarded the gold.

This IS justice, the sport corruption came from the judging only.

 

[scatteroflight]

I haven't quite decided how I feel about this decision--the whole incident has left a sour taste in my mouth by now--but Ivan, before you start calling the Canadians losers because they skated to an old program, may I remind you that the great Russian skater Viktor Petrenko won at the Olympics with a long program he had used three years in a row?

The Canadians skated better than the Russians (who I also love) on the night when it counted. That was why they deserved to win. The thing I wonder about is, why suspend just the French judge? What about the people who actually pressured her--presumably one or more of the other judges?



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Love was never a single emotion

-ACROB@T

 

[*Stormy*]

I'm happy for them and glad, but I am very surprised they admitted any wrongdoing! Now maybe there will be closer scrutiny of this kind of judging crap and it will be stopped!

 

[tiny dancer]

I'm glad that they suspended the French judge.

 

[missmacphisto]

Thank God for the Gold. What happened to them was disgusting.

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Look...look what you've done to me...You've made me poor and infamous, and I thank you...

My name is MISS MACPHISTO...I'm tired and i want to go HOME...

"Well you tell...Bonovista,that i said hello and that my codename is Belleview" - Bono before opening night of Anaheim Elevation concert

Well tonight thank God it's them, instead of you...

 

[IvanClaytonJnr]

Story isn't worth a cent . It's Olympics
This whole ''play'' makes me laugh , aaaaahh what great words from this canadian pair , they even can't win in a fair fight , so they did by scandal , fookin loosers

what a great event , i'm sure soon , there will be another stupid shitty hollywood blockbuster about this case , oh year , such a tragedy .



[This message has been edited by IvanClaytonJnr (edited 02-15-2002).]

 

[SkeeK]

Ivan. Sorry to be mean, but you are being pretty idiotic. You need to understand that the Canadians skated better, and they won. That is a pretty much unanimously accepted fact. Unfortunately, the judge's votes were predetermined so that the team that skated poorly was not awarded the medal. I really don't understand any point you are trying to make, but it's hard to ignore you.

 

[ladywithspinninghead]

I couldn't stop laughing just now -on CNN they showed the headlin news in France, Russia and Canada regarding this. In the Russian news, they went on about it being the "U.S.'" fault because of pressure from the media, public, etc....The CNN reporter couldn't help but say afterwards "hmmm, not sure how the U.S. got involved in all of this"...it was so funny!

Any chance for the Russians to throw a stab at the Americans! gosh, talk about them living in the cold war era!

 

[senrab]

Yayyyyyyyy!

 

[Saracene]

I'm really happy for the Canadians; and the stuff that was written in the Russian press made me wince. Imagine what hell -they- would raise if it was the Russian pair who gave a flawless performance and got the silver.

 

[Klodomir]

Originally posted by IvanClaytonJnr:
OK , and you tell me why canadians were better , common ??!!!!

I do not claim to be an authority on skating, but several people who do know what they're talking about have posted their reasons here, so since you have such a strong opinion on the subject, I was wondering what your take on it all was.

All I said was "fair play", which was as far as I would go in commenting on a sport that is not my specialty, but you seem to know more, so why not share?

 

[anitram]

Originally posted by IvanClaytonJnr:
This is not justice , this is sport corruption .

So to you, JUSTICE would have been to allow that French judge (and all others involved) to trade votes?

Incredible.

 

[The_Sweetest_Thing]

Originally posted by IvanClaytonJnr:
Story isn't worth a cent . It's Olympics
This whole ''play'' makes me laugh , aaaaahh what great words from this canadian pair , they even can't win in a fair fight , so they did by scandal , fookin loosers

what a great event , i'm sure soon , there will be another stupid shitty hollywood blockbuster about this case , oh year , such a tragedy .

Ivan, normally I attempt to refrain from replying to messages as short-sighted and stupid as this. The people in this forum desrve better than that.

But occasionally, I get so fustrated that I decided to reply anyway, in vain attempt to reconcile your stubborn, pig-headed comments.

Clearly, you did not watch the skate in question. Either that, or you just don't understand figure skating at all. Or you're some huge Russian activist, hoping to tarnish the already-tained gold. Or you're bored an you want to piss off a lot of people here. Any of the above is sad. I feel sorry for you, really. Anyone who prides himself on diagreeing with others, or is too filled with egotisitcal pride--so much so that he cannot even see the truth--deserves all the sympathy in the world.

I've skated--I know technical ability. I've danced--I understand artistic impression. I've watched skating for 19 years, both live and on televsion. I know what a gold medal performance looks like. So do many other people in this forum who have attested to this. The Canadians had it. Their program was not only technically superior, but artistically superb.

It can be arugued that the Russians may have had an edge in artistry, what with their balletic, arm-waving, flowy costume and classical music influence. The Canadians had a more North-American, emotional, no-frills, nouveau, different type of artistic appeal. It really comes down to personal preference. The Canadians skated to a more original program however (the past 11 Russian winners have skated the same type of flowy, showy, blah, undynamic performances that judges eat up) with more passion and chemistry than that of their Russian counterparts.

In sheer athletics, Anton Sikharulidze slipped out of a double axel. Elena Berezhnaya landed incorreectly on a throw. Both are worth mandatory deductions.

Yet, the Russian, French, and Ukrainian judges awarded the same technical marks to both the Russians and Canadians (5.8), although the Canadians were rock-solid in their technical abilites. Their throws were perfect; they landed every jump. The death spiral was stunning. Clean, deep edges, no stumbles.
This alone proves block judging. How can one team perform the elemts perfectly and receive the same marks as a group that was sub-par?

From the Russian and Ukraianian judges this comes as no surprise. To vote for one's country, or along similar politcal lines is not an uncommon thing in this sport. However, it is a major problem that has plagued the figure skating world for years and should be addressed immediately.

The French judge publically admitted that she had been pressured by the Russians to vote along those lines, so as to trade favor in the ice dance (in turn, the Russian judge will vote the French ice dancers first). Has she marked fairly and awarded the marks desrved, both technically and artistically, she would have been the single judge that tipped the scale.


The Canadians, in a press conference, publically apologized to all athletes that have not received the attention that they deserve, due to the figure skating story. They are gracious, not sore losers. They only want to be judged fairly. Had they legitimately been worse, I'm sure we would not have heard these comments, nor would there be controversy. The problem is that even the International Figure Skating Association has noticed that the Candadians were better.

The Russians themselves are not to blame. In theory, I suppose they should give up their medals, acknowledge they were second best. However, this will not happen. Put yourselves in their skates. It must be rough.
Then put yourself in the Canadian's skates. Knowing that you skated a perfect performance, with as much conviction and passion that you coiuld muster. A program, which, on a number of occassions, has earned 6.0s for artistic impression. A program which won the crowd and hearts of all those watching in Salt Lake that night...
Except three judges who had predetermined the fates. Imagine knowing that your best would never matter, because you had already lost before the competition had begun. What should you do? Take the low road and not try? Or take the high road and show off a gold-medal worthy performance?

As anitram stated above, it doesn't matter how many times you've done the program. Or when it was conceived. The spirit of the Olympics is in how well you perform ON THAT NIGHT. Your warm up doesn't matter, nor does you practices before. Past performances? Blarg. Judges are to mark exactly what they see in front of them, as it is. If judges marked based on the past, I'm sure we would see the Russians Skating Federation complaining that Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze performed wonderfully at Nationals, or at the beginning of the season, blah blah blah.


As David Pelltier stated, "This isn't about me and him (Anton). Or us and them. This is about getting judged fairly."

This wasn't a 'fair' fight Ivan. It was a farce, and a slap in the face to the Canadians. I find it hard to believe that you can't see that.




[This message has been edited by The_Sweetest_Thing (edited 02-16-2002).]