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Old 02-15-2002, 02:58 PM   #16
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this is intersting , imagine : team Canada lost to Finland in Final match , and Just After the Match -words from Gretzky and Eric Lindros with eyes full of tears : wait a second , that's not fair , we were robbed , we want gold medals also , besides all people here are on our side . "
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Old 02-15-2002, 04:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by IvanClaytonJnr:
OK , and you tell me why canadians were better , common ??!!!!
They skated an absolutely flawless program whereas the Russians had one clear mistake (Sikharulidze stepping out of a jump) and a couple of smaller mistakes (Berezhnaya landing on a stiff knee).

The Canadians had NO mistakes. Not one. It makes no difference how old the program is, in the past, gold medals have been won by programs that were 3-4 years old. The judges DO NOT vote on when the program was conceived, but on how it was performed. It's really as simple as that.

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Old 02-15-2002, 04:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by IvanClaytonJnr:
this is intersting , imagine : team Canada lost to Finland in Final match , and Just After the Match -words from Gretzky and Eric Lindros with eyes full of tears : wait a second , that's not fair , we were robbed , we want gold medals also , besides all people here are on our side . "
Sorry Ivan, but that's a bunch of bullshit. In hockey it's clear who is the winner because you're competing directly against each other, not being judged by a panel.

If you watched the skating (which I doubt you did by your comments here), you would've seen that the Canadian duo clearly skated a flawless routine, whereas the Russian duo clearly made mistakes. If that isn't enough reason for you to suspect foul play and want an investigation, then I guess you're just naturally biased towards the Russians.

Besides, there is PROOF that the French judge was corrupted and pressured into judging for the Russians. This is not a case of allegations of corruption going unfounded. The corruption was uncovered, and if the competition was fairly judged, then it's obvious that the Canadians would've won. Which is why they were awarded the gold.

This IS justice, the sport corruption came from the judging only.
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Old 02-15-2002, 04:20 PM   #19
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I haven't quite decided how I feel about this decision--the whole incident has left a sour taste in my mouth by now--but Ivan, before you start calling the Canadians losers because they skated to an old program, may I remind you that the great Russian skater Viktor Petrenko won at the Olympics with a long program he had used three years in a row?

The Canadians skated better than the Russians (who I also love) on the night when it counted. That was why they deserved to win. The thing I wonder about is, why suspend just the French judge? What about the people who actually pressured her--presumably one or more of the other judges?



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Old 02-15-2002, 06:34 PM   #20
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I'm happy for them and glad, but I am very surprised they admitted any wrongdoing! Now maybe there will be closer scrutiny of this kind of judging crap and it will be stopped!
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Old 02-15-2002, 06:47 PM   #21
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I'm glad that they suspended the French judge.
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Old 02-15-2002, 08:30 PM   #22
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Thank God for the Gold. What happened to them was disgusting.

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Well tonight thank God it's them, instead of you...
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Old 02-15-2002, 09:34 PM   #23
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Story isn't worth a cent . It's Olympics
This whole ''play'' makes me laugh , aaaaahh what great words from this canadian pair , they even can't win in a fair fight , so they did by scandal , fookin loosers

what a great event , i'm sure soon , there will be another stupid shitty hollywood blockbuster about this case , oh year , such a tragedy .



[This message has been edited by IvanClaytonJnr (edited 02-15-2002).]
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Old 02-15-2002, 10:13 PM   #24
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Ivan. Sorry to be mean, but you are being pretty idiotic. You need to understand that the Canadians skated better, and they won. That is a pretty much unanimously accepted fact. Unfortunately, the judge's votes were predetermined so that the team that skated poorly was not awarded the medal. I really don't understand any point you are trying to make, but it's hard to ignore you.
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Old 02-15-2002, 11:09 PM   #25
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I couldn't stop laughing just now -on CNN they showed the headlin news in France, Russia and Canada regarding this. In the Russian news, they went on about it being the "U.S.'" fault because of pressure from the media, public, etc....The CNN reporter couldn't help but say afterwards "hmmm, not sure how the U.S. got involved in all of this"...it was so funny!

Any chance for the Russians to throw a stab at the Americans! gosh, talk about them living in the cold war era!
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Old 02-16-2002, 12:32 AM   #26
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Yayyyyyyyy!
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Old 02-16-2002, 02:26 AM   #27
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I'm really happy for the Canadians; and the stuff that was written in the Russian press made me wince. Imagine what hell -they- would raise if it was the Russian pair who gave a flawless performance and got the silver.
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Old 02-16-2002, 03:02 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by IvanClaytonJnr:
OK , and you tell me why canadians were better , common ??!!!!
I do not claim to be an authority on skating, but several people who do know what they're talking about have posted their reasons here, so since you have such a strong opinion on the subject, I was wondering what your take on it all was.

All I said was "fair play", which was as far as I would go in commenting on a sport that is not my specialty, but you seem to know more, so why not share?
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Old 02-16-2002, 03:52 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by IvanClaytonJnr:
This is not justice , this is sport corruption .

So to you, JUSTICE would have been to allow that French judge (and all others involved) to trade votes?

Incredible.
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Old 02-16-2002, 08:08 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by IvanClaytonJnr:
Story isn't worth a cent . It's Olympics
This whole ''play'' makes me laugh , aaaaahh what great words from this canadian pair , they even can't win in a fair fight , so they did by scandal , fookin loosers

what a great event , i'm sure soon , there will be another stupid shitty hollywood blockbuster about this case , oh year , such a tragedy .

Ivan, normally I attempt to refrain from replying to messages as short-sighted and stupid as this. The people in this forum desrve better than that.

But occasionally, I get so fustrated that I decided to reply anyway, in vain attempt to reconcile your stubborn, pig-headed comments.

Clearly, you did not watch the skate in question. Either that, or you just don't understand figure skating at all. Or you're some huge Russian activist, hoping to tarnish the already-tained gold. Or you're bored an you want to piss off a lot of people here. Any of the above is sad. I feel sorry for you, really. Anyone who prides himself on diagreeing with others, or is too filled with egotisitcal pride--so much so that he cannot even see the truth--deserves all the sympathy in the world.

I've skated--I know technical ability. I've danced--I understand artistic impression. I've watched skating for 19 years, both live and on televsion. I know what a gold medal performance looks like. So do many other people in this forum who have attested to this. The Canadians had it. Their program was not only technically superior, but artistically superb.

It can be arugued that the Russians may have had an edge in artistry, what with their balletic, arm-waving, flowy costume and classical music influence. The Canadians had a more North-American, emotional, no-frills, nouveau, different type of artistic appeal. It really comes down to personal preference. The Canadians skated to a more original program however (the past 11 Russian winners have skated the same type of flowy, showy, blah, undynamic performances that judges eat up) with more passion and chemistry than that of their Russian counterparts.

In sheer athletics, Anton Sikharulidze slipped out of a double axel. Elena Berezhnaya landed incorreectly on a throw. Both are worth mandatory deductions.

Yet, the Russian, French, and Ukrainian judges awarded the same technical marks to both the Russians and Canadians (5.8), although the Canadians were rock-solid in their technical abilites. Their throws were perfect; they landed every jump. The death spiral was stunning. Clean, deep edges, no stumbles.
This alone proves block judging. How can one team perform the elemts perfectly and receive the same marks as a group that was sub-par?

From the Russian and Ukraianian judges this comes as no surprise. To vote for one's country, or along similar politcal lines is not an uncommon thing in this sport. However, it is a major problem that has plagued the figure skating world for years and should be addressed immediately.

The French judge publically admitted that she had been pressured by the Russians to vote along those lines, so as to trade favor in the ice dance (in turn, the Russian judge will vote the French ice dancers first). Has she marked fairly and awarded the marks desrved, both technically and artistically, she would have been the single judge that tipped the scale.


The Canadians, in a press conference, publically apologized to all athletes that have not received the attention that they deserve, due to the figure skating story. They are gracious, not sore losers. They only want to be judged fairly. Had they legitimately been worse, I'm sure we would not have heard these comments, nor would there be controversy. The problem is that even the International Figure Skating Association has noticed that the Candadians were better.

The Russians themselves are not to blame. In theory, I suppose they should give up their medals, acknowledge they were second best. However, this will not happen. Put yourselves in their skates. It must be rough.
Then put yourself in the Canadian's skates. Knowing that you skated a perfect performance, with as much conviction and passion that you coiuld muster. A program, which, on a number of occassions, has earned 6.0s for artistic impression. A program which won the crowd and hearts of all those watching in Salt Lake that night...
Except three judges who had predetermined the fates. Imagine knowing that your best would never matter, because you had already lost before the competition had begun. What should you do? Take the low road and not try? Or take the high road and show off a gold-medal worthy performance?

As anitram stated above, it doesn't matter how many times you've done the program. Or when it was conceived. The spirit of the Olympics is in how well you perform ON THAT NIGHT. Your warm up doesn't matter, nor does you practices before. Past performances? Blarg. Judges are to mark exactly what they see in front of them, as it is. If judges marked based on the past, I'm sure we would see the Russians Skating Federation complaining that Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze performed wonderfully at Nationals, or at the beginning of the season, blah blah blah.


As David Pelltier stated, "This isn't about me and him (Anton). Or us and them. This is about getting judged fairly."

This wasn't a 'fair' fight Ivan. It was a farce, and a slap in the face to the Canadians. I find it hard to believe that you can't see that.




[This message has been edited by The_Sweetest_Thing (edited 02-16-2002).]
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