Brest, Belarus Superthread

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Regarding the communism thing, Vlad may be labouring the distinction a bit too much, but he's fundamentally correct. The forms of "communism" implemented pretty much anywhere are distinctly different from the theory formulated in the 19th century and that advocated by most communist revolutionaries, and in many ways in practice turn out opposed to some elements of communist theoriy as they result in a dictatorial individual/upper class controlling the workers, not the workers themselves attaining control. See the USSR and Leninism/Stalinism, China and Maoism (and its authoritarian capitalist outlook that has been especially strong since the 1980s), North Korea and its wacky juche, etc.

Probably the closest anywhere has got would be the Marxism-Leninism of the USSR in the mid-1920s when Trotskyism wasn't totally verboten and Stalin hadn't quite seized all sorts of power. But the bloody rampages of the Bolsheviks in the preceding years had pretty much put paid to any idea that this would be a worker-controlled paradise; Lenin was quite happy to use dictatorial power and violence to keep his opponents out of power. Basically the problem ANYWHERE is that communist revolution has been followed by the perceived need to use strong-man dictatorial control to "secure" the revolution against its opponents, which is fairly antithetical to rule by the workers, and once a strong-man is established, well, nobody's about to just walk away from that in ten years and say "yeah guys now we're all safe and I'm giving up my godlike power".
 
But it's governed by the Communist Party of China?

It's just a title, you'll find that in many cases the name of the party means nothing, or has differed greatly from their formation. Like, is the Liberal party really liberal? Or is British Labour actually supportive of the working class these days? Or perhaps, are the KPRF in Russia real communists?

They call themselves that, but I think what Vlad is saying is that a genuine communist society by the ideal dictionary definition has never been acheived. Human nature keeps getting in the way, and in practice they end up being dictatorships or whatever. :wink:

This is somewhat true too. I've mentioned this before, you can't have it without democracy.

So if you're being extremely technical, China has never been 110% truly communist.

It's not really that technical since it can be easily seen that China's means of production isn't actually controlled by the workers, but through bureaucratic means. Also, they don't have free healthcare, which is a VITAL aspect of any socialist/communist society.

Back for another grope of Brest?

:fuckyeah: to that!

:up:

Regarding the communism thing, Vlad may be labouring the distinction a bit too much, but he's fundamentally correct. The forms of "communism" implemented pretty much anywhere are distinctly different from the theory formulated in the 19th century and that advocated by most communist revolutionaries, and in many ways in practice turn out opposed to some elements of communist theoriy as they result in a dictatorial individual/upper class controlling the workers, not the workers themselves attaining control. See the USSR and Leninism/Stalinism, China and Maoism (and its authoritarian capitalist outlook that has been especially strong since the 1980s), North Korea and its wacky juche, etc.

Probably the closest anywhere has got would be the Marxism-Leninism of the USSR in the mid-1920s when Trotskyism wasn't totally verboten and Stalin hadn't quite seized all sorts of power. But the bloody rampages of the Bolsheviks in the preceding years had pretty much put paid to any idea that this would be a worker-controlled paradise; Lenin was quite happy to use dictatorial power and violence to keep his opponents out of power. Basically the problem ANYWHERE is that communist revolution has been followed by the perceived need to use strong-man dictatorial control to "secure" the revolution against its opponents, which is fairly antithetical to rule by the workers, and once a strong-man is established, well, nobody's about to just walk away from that in ten years and say "yeah guys now we're all safe and I'm giving up my godlike power".

This is all good, too.

So why is it called communism when it's not?

A lot of it can be attributed to the western media, I guess.
 
Also this "stump ax" thing, you don't get to use u2gigs right? It's off the top of your head?

I actually didn't think that far ahead with the technicalities! :lol:

I'll let Matkin throw the rules down at me tomorrow. I was kind of thinking I'd be allowed to use it to clarify, i.e. to make sure I do have a date right, but not to outright find the answer when I have no clue. But it's up to him.
 
I mean good christ, this is so much fucking ammunition for the "U2 are now just a gigantic money-hungry corporate juggernaut" camp that, you know, fuck it, it's obvious this hyper-rich band has completely lost touch with their beginnings, is happy to milk their batshit fans for every cent because they know there are thousands of them willing to throw it all away for USELESS SHIT, and are pretty much able to get away with anything because they're now more business than band ... or in short: fuck you Paul McGuinne$$. This is music hyper-capitalism at its most brazen and naked.
 
I didn't notice the price was actually so hefty. Stupid fatso Paul McGuinness.
 
Where are you guys getting the prices from? I'll probably still do the uber thing.

Although I don't get why there is an 84 Page Book in the Uber Edition, and a 92 page book in the super deluxe. Doesn't fucking make sense.
 
Although I don't get why there is an 84 Page Book in the Uber Edition, and a 92 page book in the super deluxe. Doesn't fucking make sense.

CDs are packaged IN the book for Super Deluxe apparently, thus the extra pages.

Also, I'm pretty sure myself or somebody else here a couple of years ago joked about an "Uber Deluxe" edition with pointless shit like Fly sunglasses and everybody was like "lol lol lol what a great parody of Paul McGuinne$$'s excesses" ... and now it's happened. I mean, the first time I read it, I thought it was a parody. I had to go to the official website to believe it.

Though given it's U2.com, it's probably still wrong.

And Live From Sydney, really?! The only people buying these ridiculous cherry-on-top editions already own that!
 
... Fly shades? Seriously? I'm waiting for them to go "lol fooled you!".

No way in hell I'm getting the uber rubbish. I've forked out for box sets in the past but this goes beyond the pale. Is Zooropa re-mastered as well or just the bog-standard version?

All the new audio will be online soon enough. Probably that doco too. I can make my own cheap crappy badges and stickers if I want them. I have no interest in vinyl. I certainly have no interest in buying Live From Sydney for the third time.

Will the book and the doco say anything that hasn't been said before about AB/ZooTV, by the band and everyone else with an opinion and a computer? I doubt it.

McGuinne$$ practically said, in almost as many words, that they could put a pile of glossy shit in a box and charge ludicrous amounts for it and people would buy it. But I somehow still didn't expect this.

Fly shades?!?!

Sigh. I guess it'll make some people's Fly costumes that much more realistic.
 
Watch out for everybody wearing those damn Fly shades next tour.

Bet you they're cheap and flimsy and break too.
 
Remember this day, people. The carnage on the financial markets is no ordinary carnage.

Shit looks bad.
 
CDs are packaged IN the book for Super Deluxe apparently, thus the extra pages.

Also, I'm pretty sure myself or somebody else here a couple of years ago joked about an "Uber Deluxe" edition with pointless shit like Fly sunglasses and everybody was like "lol lol lol what a great parody of Paul McGuinne$$'s excesses" ... and now it's happened. I mean, the first time I read it, I thought it was a parody. I had to go to the official website to believe it.

Though given it's U2.com, it's probably still wrong.

And Live From Sydney, really?! The only people buying these ridiculous cherry-on-top editions already own that!
I'm starting to think McGuinne$$ has an informant of some sort on here. If photos surface of the boys playing badminton, we're boned. Also, there will probably be one hell of a witch hunt.
 
I thought they were joking when they were calling it uber deluxe.. but yep. Next time there will be a super duper extra special whoopty do deluxe

I reckon that for the next album, they should film the entire recording session, all three years of it or whatever, and release it unedited on DVD (and a Blu-Ray edition that also has archival footage from every past album), because I promise you, there are a thousand people on this forum who would buy it ... then we can just wait for the incredible over-analysis threads. It'd be terrifying.
 
I reckon that for the next album, they should film the entire recording session, all three years of it or whatever, and release it unedited on DVD (and a Blu-Ray edition that also has archival footage from every past album), because I promise you, there are a thousand people on this forum who would buy it ... then we can just wait for the incredible over-analysis threads. It'd be terrifying.

You mean like the Let It Be movie, which is just footage of the Twickenham sessions? :hmm:

...:crack: Damn it, Axver, you broke my brain. I can fathom the entire 13.7-billion-year age of the universe, but that is just...beyond my imagination.
 
chatroulette-trolling-there-went-my-afternoon-plans.jpg

Andre Vladimir! Did you go to the model train shop again?! They're going to arrest you next time. :tsk:
 
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