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Old 04-18-2003, 01:29 PM   #196
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well the 'nucks may have a chance tonight. the whole blues first line has the flu. mellanby, demitra, and tkachuk all have the flu and may or may not play tonight. and if they do play they may not be very effective. not good news, not good at all.
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Old 04-18-2003, 03:23 PM   #197
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That's no excuse! They need to be held accountable. If they don't score more goals than the Canucks, they may as well pack it in. You create your own luck afterall.

But seriously, you should be thanking your lucky stars that Weight doesn't have the flu. He's easily been their best player the entire series. Looks kind of like Gretz out there actually. You can tell he's been totally influenced by #99. Sweater tucked in, his skating style (always hunched over), his passing style. It's as though he watched numerous Gretzky tapes as a kid or something. Doesn't get the numbers Wayne did, but there again, who does?
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Old 04-18-2003, 03:34 PM   #198
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well there is one difference, weight actually plays defense. he, drake, and rucinsky have shut down the big line of the canucks, and then also been our primary scoring line, which is pretty amazing. and to think, weight is our second line center, now thats depth
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Old 04-18-2003, 04:09 PM   #199
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I wouldn't be calling Weight a second line center. Their first two line centers are pretty much interchangeable. IMO, Weight's the best they have. I really enjoyed watching him when he played for the Oilers. That's where he officially began his Gretzky impersonations.

As for Gretz not playing much defense, he was so smart that he didn't really need to. He picked his spots, knew when to "cheat". He could read the play 3 or 4 moves ahead, so he was able to get away with it. Plus, when he scored 3, 4, 5 points a game, it kind of made up for it. Do you know what his plus/minus was during his Oiler years? It was obscenely high. In '84/85 he was +98!! In 81/82, he was plus 81. In fact, from that year until 87, he never once fell below +60. His career plus/minus is +503!!! Yeah, I think people could overlook his backchecking with those kind of numbers. Chances were he would far more likely create goals than allow them.

Now a days, people win the plus/minus by, what, a +16 or so?
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Old 04-18-2003, 04:16 PM   #200
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Actually, what makes those stats even more remarkable is that plus/minus does not include the powerplay, where Gretzky would get a TON of points. If you took away all his powerplay points, he's still a +503! That's unreal. And people thought he was a liability!
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Old 04-18-2003, 04:25 PM   #201
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weight plays on the second line though, so that makes him a second line center. our first line, of demitra, tkachuk, and mellanby has been our only stable line the pst 2 years, so they are always together unless there is an injury. or if they all get sick, like they are now. weight has had many different players play beside him, which makes his feats more remarkable, since he cant really ever get a flow going with 1 or 2 wingers. he has turned a rookie eric boguneki into a 20+ goal scorer, as well as cory stillman, and ruckinsky. whoever he plays with just automatically gets better. thats probably the best attribute of a center.

on gretzky, i was watching espn classic the other day and they were showing the game were he broke the record for most goals scored, number 802 or whatever. it was against the Canucks, and it was just pretty funny to see that they stopped the game right there, and all these reporters came running on the ice. it was funny seeing reporters interviewing somebody on the ice during the middle of a game.

the canucks ended up winning the game, and they scored an empty net goal, and when they did, all of their players jumped off the bench and onto the ice to celebrate the goal. they did this to make fun of the kings who all jumped on the ice after gretzky's goal. man, talk about sore losers, they gotta make fun of the guy who just broke the record for most goals scored? pretty sad.
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Old 04-18-2003, 04:31 PM   #202
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I wasn't a fan of that Canuck team, actually. I didn't start cheering for them until 3 years ago, when I moved to Vancouver. Before then, I was a big Habs fan until they traded Patrick Roy. I then cheered for the Avalanche and the LA Kings (since I was a huge Gretzky fan). The only player that is still with wth the Canucks since that game you mentioned in '94 is Trevor Linden. And he's a class, class guy.
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Old 04-18-2003, 04:32 PM   #203
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something else i really noticed while watching the game was how many odd many rushes and great scoring chances there were. it was really a wide open style of play that i really think is missing from the game today. there will never be another star like gretzky, or even hull who scored 80+ goals, because the defensive style of play, the traps and clutching and grabbing, really wont allow it. its a big deal if someone scores 50 goals these days, imagine if someone got into the 70, 80, or 90 range. i think that is one thing that could bring the popularity back to hockey in the states, but as it is right now, scoring 35 goals is like having scored 50 those days. the blues are as guilty as anybody for this defensive type of play, but i really think it hurts the sport.
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Old 04-18-2003, 04:37 PM   #204
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Chizip, I totally agree with you. I used to love watching Gretz play when he was on LA because of the offensive style of play in the NHL at the time. When he finished in New York, he had to start dumping the puck in, had to start backchecking. All his talents were wasted. It was sad to see. I remember watching the Penguins and Lemieux in the early 90s. Man, that was entertaining! There used to be such finesse and artistry in the game. Those guys, Gretz and Mario, turned the game into an art-form, almost like basketball in some ways. It's too bad things have changed so drastically. The Canucks, actually, were really entertaining this year. But look where it gets them once they hit the playoffs? They can't play that style anymore. It's sad to see. Even in the playoffs, back in the day, there was flow. It was tight flow, but the flow was still there. Do you remember the '93 playoffs when the Kings went to the finals? That was amazing hockey throughout the entire playoffs. The Vancouver and Toronto series against LA were especially good.
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Old 04-18-2003, 04:43 PM   #205
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yeah, it really was more of an art form back in the day, i dont know if there is anyway to get back to that style of play either. i dont think taking the red line out, or making the rinks or goals bigger would help much. and they tried calling more penalties, but that never helped either, its just a completely different style of ockey now and until someone can win with a wide open style of play, we just wont see it again. and i dont think anyone can win with that style of play, so it is kind of sad.
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Old 04-18-2003, 04:51 PM   #206
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Well, the one thing going for a ruturn to a wide open style of play is history. Back in the 70s, it was the same thing as it is now. The Canadians were the dynasty in the late 70s, and even when the Islanders won 4 in a row in the early 80s, defense was at a premium. And then the Oilers came along and changed everything. One example: before Glen Sather's team came along, no star players EVER killed penalties. Not Mike Bossy, not Marcel Dionne, not Guy Lafleur. So what does Sather do? He uses Gretzky and Kurri on the penalty kills. And what does that do? It causes scoring threats against the team on the powerplay. It changed the game. Suddenly, the short handed goal was invented.

That, and many other factors went into revolutionarizing the game in the 80s. The Oilers proved that you could win championships with an offensive brand of hockey. Now, the cycle has dipped back into the defensive. These things always turn around. They always go in cycles.
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Old 04-18-2003, 04:57 PM   #207
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we'll see, i hope so
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Old 04-18-2003, 06:43 PM   #208
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Chizip - I vaguely remember that game where Gretz broke the record. If I remember, he didn't play that well that game, did he? Did he do anything exceptional? (Well, beside scoring the most goals ever?)
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Old 04-18-2003, 07:03 PM   #209
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no, not really. he scored the goal on his first shot of the game, and it was on the power play. he brought it in over the line, passed it to the right, just kept skating down the left where, for some reason, he was left completely alone. the guy passed it back to him and he pretty much had an empty net to shoot at.

there was seriously, no one within 5-10 feet of him, i couldnt believe it. the announcers were like, thays classic gretzky, he is able to find the open ice and get off a clean shot. i think that is one of the differences of today, i dont think teams would just let the greatest scorer of all time wander around freely. like the blues have jackman cover bertuzzi this series, his job is to make sure he is never alone and cant get off a clean shot, and so far it has worked perfectly. you would have thought they would have tried the same strategy against gretzky, but i guess not.

but back to your original question, i think they ended up losing 6-3, and i dont recall gretzky's name coming up on the other goals. so breaking the record was about it.
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Old 04-18-2003, 07:27 PM   #210
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I like how the Oilers played this year....kind of an open ended hockey of old, unless they were playing a team who used the trap (Wild, Stars). End to end hockey all the time with chances left and right. Maybe the game is changing before our eyes guys, but this time it won't be just one or two guys on a team, it will be the entire team chipping in. Teams that use all 4 lines to score, like the Oilers (ond other teams I'm not aware of).
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