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Old 06-17-2005, 11:06 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrBrau1
I love watching indie rockers get their panties in a bunch and defend their close minded-ness.
As opposed to your open-minded bashing of any artist who chooses not to chase massive mainstream popularity?
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Old 06-17-2005, 11:14 PM   #62
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Originally posted by indra


As opposed to your open-minded bashing of any artist who chooses not to chase massive mainstream popularity?
I hate "fans" who consult a rule book. Indie is a rule book.

http://www.soyouwanna.com/site/syws/...erockFULL.html
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Old 06-18-2005, 04:27 AM   #63
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Originally posted by TheRooster


I think you are misunderstanding my language. When I say a song has deeper meaning or meaning period, I'm not just referring to lyrics. I'm referring to the soul of a song. Meaningful songs, songs with a spirit and soul, can be fun and carefree. I love stuff like that, its very difficult to write a happy song both lyrically and musically. However the artists like Destiny's Child and the American Idol crowd create songs without a soul. Literally devoid of any merit. That is my problem with them and why I don't want any of my bands to get popular less they go down that route which unfortunately many have.

You may know people who like both Marroon 5 type candy music and other indie music and you may know people that can understand and full appreciate good music, however I have never met a person who can truly appreciate a My Bloody Valentine song and like Justin Timberlake. All the people I have met in my life and there have been many I have never met anyone like that. That is why I say what I do.

LMAO! I'm sorry but that is the most inane and vague description of what makes an indie song better than a "popular" song. You HAVE to be TROLLING when you start talking about "souls" of songs and not even get into proper detail on what that might be? I could say, the sould of "This Love" from Maroon 5 is so great and touching and whats the difference? Also ASSUMING YOU get things while other people who may like My Bloody Valentine and also happen to like a Timberlake song or a Maroon 5 song at the same time just don't get it is funny stuff. LOL.

Wait a second, if you're such an indie snob, how do you know who Maroon 5 or Justin Timberlake is? Are you a faux indie snob poseur?
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Old 06-18-2005, 06:08 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheRooster
I think you are misunderstanding my language. When I say a song has deeper meaning or meaning period, I'm not just referring to lyrics. I'm referring to the soul of a song. Meaningful songs, songs with a spirit and soul, can be fun and carefree. I love stuff like that, its very difficult to write a happy song both lyrically and musically. However the artists like Destiny's Child and the American Idol crowd create songs without a soul. Literally devoid of any merit.
Well, that's your opinion that they're soulless. You may not get much out of their music, you may not find soul there, but others will.

Quote:
Originally posted by TheRooster
That is my problem with them and why I don't want any of my bands to get popular less they go down that route which unfortunately many have.
But if they're truly talented artists, they shouldn't be in danger of falling into that trap. U2's managed to get through the last 20+ years without falling into that trap-they still create music with a soul and with meaning and all that good stuff.

And besides that, even if you feel that an artist who got popular fell into that trap, someone else may not see it that way. Music is purely a subjective thing. What's lacking in soul and meaning to one person isn't lacking such to somebody else.

Quote:
Originally posted by TheRooster
You may know people who like both Marroon 5 type candy music and other indie music and you may know people that can understand and full appreciate good music, however I have never met a person who can truly appreciate a My Bloody Valentine song and like Justin Timberlake. All the people I have met in my life and there have been many I have never met anyone like that. That is why I say what I do.
Well, I have. So I'm just saying I wouldn't be so quick to stereotype, because while there are some people who refuse to check out another genre because they don't appreciate the depth to the music, there's others who do. There's people who have a wide variety of musical taste, who can listen to Justin Timberlake one moment and then turn around and like Pink Floyd. It just seems a bit unfair to me to pigeon-hole people based on their musical preferences *Shrugs*.

Angela
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Old 06-18-2005, 07:07 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flying FuManchu



LMAO! I'm sorry but that is the most inane and vague description of what makes an indie song better than a "popular" song. You HAVE to be TROLLING when you start talking about "souls" of songs and not even get into proper detail on what that might be? I could say, the sould of "This Love" from Maroon 5 is so great and touching and whats the difference? Also ASSUMING YOU get things while other people who may like My Bloody Valentine and also happen to like a Timberlake song or a Maroon 5 song at the same time just don't get it is funny stuff. LOL.

Wait a second, if you're such an indie snob, how do you know who Maroon 5 or Justin Timberlake is? Are you a faux indie snob poseur?
Yeah I must be a poseur. I use my ears for listening and my eyes for seeing, so maybe its possible that I have inadvertently heard these groups. I mean in our commercially soaked world there must be a chance of that happening. But no that can't be it. I must have their CDs and be a closet fan. I can't wait for Justin to play at my city.

I know my "soul" argument is very vague, and that is the problem with trying to explain what makes music good. But I feel that art and good music is art to me, is like a person, it has a soul. It exists not for anything or anyone else. A good song is made purely because it is a good song not to sell. It exists without a need for a listener. I know too philosophical but I take art very seriously. The point to my original post back aways is that I don't want my bands to be popular. Its like throwing your pearls to swine. Call me selfish, a snob, an elitist or whatever thats just how I am and I don't see anything wrong with it.


Moonlit_Angel I thank you for your civilized responses I understand how what I have said would get other people incensed. Maybe someday I will meet these people you speak of.

MrBrau1, I love the link but I don't think that is allowed is to be out in the public, you have to go through an initiation before the secret "indie" society gives you the rule book. I make sure mine looks used but not too used because thats the cool thing to do. But you do need a special decoder ring to read the official rule book and manual.

Indra, thanks for being on my side. I'll give the Church a listen to.
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Old 06-18-2005, 07:16 AM   #66
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Originally posted by TheRooster
Moonlit_Angel I thank you for your civilized responses I understand how what I have said would get other people incensed. Maybe someday I will meet these people you speak of.
No problem. And I hope you do meet people like that. Makes life interesting .

Angela
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Old 06-18-2005, 08:49 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrBrau1


I hate "fans" who consult a rule book. Indie is a rule book.

http://www.soyouwanna.com/site/syws/...erockFULL.html
Quote:
Got a nice car? Good. Lose it. If you want to be indie rock you can't drive a car that has fewer than 100,000 miles on the odometer and had an original sticker price of more than $20K. As a rule, money is antithetical to indie rock. Unless you are Matt Groening, it's hard to make piles of cash when you are a clever cynic (as most indie rockers like to think of themselves).

Well, I certainly have the right car.... I was driving along a couple of weeks ago and something fell off my car....I still don't know what it was. Someday that thing is just going to fall apart (I'm starting to pray for that day since I have sworn to keep the damned thing until it dies. AND IT REFUSES TO DIE!!!! )

That article got it pretty well right when it noted that most offerings from a particular label tend to sound similar...there are labels I will buy anything they release, because I'm pretty sure I will like it.

I actually knew the bit about Luna, and could do the Minneapolis bit (I really do like the Replacements, but then again, who doesn't?), and am on an email list where there was just a discussion of Japanese bands (ruining my cred here to admit I didn't have a clue ).

I do, however, know a bunch of obscure Australian bands and labels. Oddly I'm not all that familiar with most more well known US & UK indies -- yes I'm a "bad" indie snob. ...or maybe I'm an even better indie snob than the usual one...

And, just in case anyone cares...I DO bathe! (the kinda ripe look/smell thing is sadly accurate for too many people. I never quite got that part.... )
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Old 06-18-2005, 09:45 PM   #68
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there is nothing wrong with an "indie" who isn't hypocritical, but it's hard to find them, that's the thing.

there seems to be a disconnect about what "indie" refers to.
I see it as those who listen to music that avoids consumerism.

I mean, avodiing consumerism is something I actually admire, to do this as a practice of not trying to contribute to billion dollar bank accounts, that could be admirable. If it were entirely based on these prinicples it would be one thing.

Pretending artist X has more credibility than artist Y because of the label that issues their labels is ridiculous. The problem is with this perceived credibility. It is all associated with images and trends, it's their very own fad of not conforming to coroporate America, when in fact it is almost impossible to do. It's a nice theory and all that has been practiced for decades by the "underground", but it's not practical, at leats not in 99% of the cases.

To look for underground and independent artists and labels is fine all by itself. It's the next step of the elitism, which pretends that something coroporate cannot be as good by default, because it works for insane amounts of money.

The problem should stop and end with selling your goods for a price. If you sell your album on the internet for $15 and you are on on indie label, what difference does it make if it's on a major label? It's possible that the indies recieve a HIGHER portion of the gross because the profit margins for indie labels is smaller. That might not be true in all cases, but probably is in some. Of course, the problem comes from popularity, and selling masses of albums is a turn off because it contradicts this elitism.

If you make money off of your music, you are whoring your music for a price. You are shelling your art for money. It makes no difference if you make a thousand dollars a year or a million dollars a year. Everything in between this consistency is images, fads and association with an elitist trend. It is a product and it is most defintely consumerism.

My point is, how can you differentiate?

It has been around since the inception of rock, now they call it "indie" it will have another name in several years. It is the same thing. It's the idea that a group of people are "in on"
something that the masses aren't. Most of the time the music is a lot better. If this is because of new, fresh ideas coming thru undiscovered ranks of musicians, that is great. There is ceratinly a number of unknowns who are making great music on small labels who may or may not want to avoid the mass consumerism of corporate America.

But if they choose to go major label, are they selling out their ideals any more or less? It's the same idea, different product arena. The problem is the association of those groups with something more credible just because of where it comes from.
It doesn't make any sense or have any consistency.

When I was 18-22, I beleived in a whole pack of artists who I thought probaly were "in on" something that the others werent. As I am older, it was really simple in the first place. It was just better music. There was no difference at all in where it came from, or what it supposedly represented, it ultimately is always about the music. Because if it's not about the quality of the music, what is it about?

There is no question an artist not making a ton of money is more likely to remain true to ideals without worried about radio play or singles, but it doesnt mean more credible music. It's not absolute, you have to go case by case. The whole train of "indie" thought defies this. There is good and bad in everything, corporate and independent. To discount something just because of the images surrouding the music, not only removes you from being an actual fan of music, it makes you a trendy just like all the rest.

The idea is. If you follow this book with consistency, you can't like any music associated with corporate America. It goes against the core belief, the only consistent belief of this whole "faction".
If you can adhere to that, you have my admiration. If you can't, well that's the problem, more than most can't.
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Old 06-18-2005, 09:52 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra

Well, I certainly have the right car.... I was driving along a couple of weeks ago and something fell off my car....I still don't know what it was. Someday that thing is just going to fall apart (I'm starting to pray for that day since I have sworn to keep the damned thing until it dies. AND IT REFUSES TO DIE!!!! )

That article got it pretty well right when it noted that most offerings from a particular label tend to sound similar...there are labels I will buy anything they release, because I'm pretty sure I will like it.

I actually knew the bit about Luna, and could do the Minneapolis bit (I really do like the Replacements, but then again, who doesn't?), and am on an email list where there was just a discussion of Japanese bands (ruining my cred here to admit I didn't have a clue ).

I do, however, know a bunch of obscure Australian bands and labels. Oddly I'm not all that familiar with most more well known US & UK indies -- yes I'm a "bad" indie snob. ...or maybe I'm an even better indie snob than the usual one...

And, just in case anyone cares...I DO bathe! (the kinda ripe look/smell thing is sadly accurate for too many people. I never quite got that part.... )
Damn, are you embracing the stereotype? Haha, well I know a couple of people who are just like this too.

Hard core punks who were bashing Green Day back in 1993 for "selling out" etc. They are still friends, they just hate to talk about music with me.

I mean, I love all of it. I pretty much like anything from any genre, as long as I like it it, it doesn't matter.

It's not as if I wouldn't differentiate between a big coroporate band like Aerosmith and a smaller band on a corporate label like Modest Mouse or whatever in terms of quality of music or even sincerity, as it would be case by case.

Just saying I don't associate any credibilty to Modest Mouse just because they're smaller. If I were an "indie" in the truest sense, as I described in the previous post, I wouldn't be listening to a band on fucking billion dollar Sony records anyways (Modest Mouse). But their fans call themselves "indie" too.

Maybe we are just talking about different types of "indies"
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Old 06-20-2005, 06:34 PM   #70
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Its the mis-guided superiority complex on a subjective issue that gets to me. I'm easily trolled when it comes to that subject.
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Old 06-20-2005, 07:50 PM   #71
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Its the mis-guided superiority complex on a subjective issue that gets to me. I'm easily trolled when it comes to that subject.
I agree. Corgan is a frickin' know it all.
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