Beckham, MLS, & the fate of football/soccer in the US

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The problem is that the MLS is just isn't an attractive league.

If the MLS really wants to win an audience here it will need to get its officials to begin calling games the same way they are in Europe (i'm thinking Spain and Italy in particular). I believe US soccer has shot itself in the foot because it has allowed itself to get swept up in the 'soccer is for pussies' sentiment and thus allows too much physical tackling and marking to prove that they are tough. But all that does is hinder the more elegant side of the game and keeps one touch, flowing football at a minimum.

I would start handing out cards left and right and start promoting players who can play the beautiful game.
 
Commentators have a lot to do with the broadcasting too. I watched a couple of La Liga matches on GolTV, and I love soccer, but I couldn't stand how lifeless some the announcers were. Nothing is worse than an announcer that puts you to sleep.

But then again, you just have to grow up with it, I guess. There is no way of convincing someone who thinks it's a boring game, to become a fan. I wasn't in North America in '94 when you guys hosted the World Cup, did anyone even notice it was going on?!
 
LemonMacPhisto said:
I have a solution.

Gus Johnson calls every MLS game.

It'll be a sure-fire success.

Beckham ... with the ball ... crosses up a man. And another. He approaches AND SHOOTS. NDHEPUTSITINFORDAGOHED!
 
intedomine said:



Ah, soccer has already eclipsed cricket.

Attendances in Melbourne reveal a lot:

Melbourne Victory - Average of 27,728 for 06/07 season
Victoria Bushrangers - 500 to 600 people for 06/07 season

Soccer: Australia vs Greece @ MCG 2006: 95,103

But, cricket:
Australia vs England ODI @ MCG 06/07: 78,000
Australia vs New Zealand ODI @ MCG 06/07: 48,000
Australia vs England Day One of the Boxing Day Test 2006: 89,155 (so much for eagerley awaited!)

Participation rates:

Children playing soccer: 19.6% of boys, 2.9% of girls
Children playing cricket: 9.9% of boys, 1.2% of girls

Adult participation rate:

Men playing soccer = 4.4%
Men playing cricket = 4.7%

but...

Women playing soccer = 1.8%
Women playing cricket = 0.8%


SBS' National TV audience for 2006 FIFA World Cup:

Australia vs:

Japan - 2.16 million (11pm)
Brazil - 1.53 million (2am!)
Croatia - 2.02 million (5am)
Italy - 2.28 million (1am)

These figures fail to take into account all the people who flocked to pubs and clubs and the big screens across the nation, a spectating culture that is alien to the stale culture of following cricket.

2003 Cricket World Cup Final:
* Australia vs India (mostly shown in prime time on a Sunday night):2.46 million

2007 Cricket World Cup Final:
* Australia vs Sri Lanka: I read somewhere that it never peaked over 1 million.

Cricket, in both a participatory and spectatorship sense, lags behind soccer in terms of appeal. Channel Nine have begun to recognise this, with their decision to no longer screen One Day Domestic matches and their increasing hesitancy to screen matches in the tri-series that don't involve Australia, and the impending scrapping of tri-series ODI cricket after the 07/08 summer.

Cricket is dying, while soccer is finally being recognised for what it always has been, as one of Australia's favourite sports.

Touche. But I still do not agree that soccer is one of Australia's favourite sports, and I think if you did a sample survey of cricket v soccer the results would be much much closer.
 
Canadiens1160 said:
Yeah we need more rail cams right next to the pitch, and maybe Fox can come up with some movable superimposed line to aid TV viewers.


Yeah, maybe we'll come up with this new idea. It can be called the "glow ball"
:wink:


I disagree with all the Americans here on why they feel soccer(football) is boring.
1. No ridiculous commercial breaks. This is what bugs me the most about basketball. For NO GOOD REASON the refs have to call a time out. I believe, that's called the TV Timeout. Soccer got that right in putting adverts on the top of the screen.

2. Once you figure out the game and its beauty, a good cross or a good thru ball that leads to a break away goal. Those get exciting.

I used to hate soccer too. Never played it when I was young b/c I hated it. No reason really. I just never gave it a shot. I think that is one of the biggest problems. But also, the only way I can watch good football is by paying more for the soccer channel or downloading games off the internet. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I didn't know you could download the games until this past winter.
 
i believe soccer is probably the second biggest sport in canada, already.

in today's winnipeg sun (gross i know), there was an article stating how ratings for the cbc's coverage of the U20 World Cup have been through the rough. the games have all outdone anything the bluejays or any cfl broadcast have pulled in this year by a large margin.

the cbc spokesman also said and i quote "soccer is clearly our second most important sport".

i think that speaks volumes.
 
LJT said:
They are trying to build the game from the top down...what about the grass roots level?

he game has a really strong grass roots following here in the states. That is not the problem. It need something to take it to the next level.

Pele playing for the Cosmos in the 70's brought some pretty good exposure to the game. The game hardly exsisted in the states (this may be an overstatement, but it really grew in grass roots termsthrough the 80s). The 1994 World Cup also helped, and led to MLS.

Now, Beckham is a "pele-esque" move for the MLS. In reality, I feel it is not so much a move to get MLS attention of the sports fans of America, but the corporate sponsors of U.S. professional sports world. In order for the MLS to suceed, it needs sponsorship.

Beckham will draw the attention of sponsors. He will also attract other international players to the MLS, which could elevate sponsorships and general awareness.

I feel it is not about Beckham making the MLS popular in American culture...it is about the cash for the MLS and what he can do for the exposure of the league in an international arena.
 
Well, how would a MLS game ever be shown on a major network? When each half goes straight on for 45 minutes with no timeouts....where would all those annoying ads go? Stupid, but true and good point.

I go to every Columbus Crew game I have a chance to go to--I would have had season tickets had money not been an issue. I love the flow of the game...much more entertaining than football which is more of a stop and go task, as soon as that gets really exciting, it all stops!

At least Beckham have people here in the US talking about soccer, albeit in a limited sense. It could be a start. It's tell early to tell I think. What matters is what happens after people who are curious actually go to a game.
 
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starsgoblue said:
Well, how would a MLS game ever be shown on a major network? When each half goes straight on for 45 minutes with no timeouts....where would all those annoying ads go? Stupid, but true and good point.

The same way ABC broadcasts the World Cup games - with a sponsor buying a 10 or 15 minute block to have their name up on the screen right next to the scoring box.
 
His presence drew 66,000 to Giants Stadium, where the New York Red Bulls usually draw an average of 11,000 fans.

It was an entertaining game and I'm sure it may have converted at least a handful of people. Boy are they in for a shock when they realize that 5-4 games are the exception, rather than the rule, in the "beautiful game".

66,000 see Beckham lose first MLS start

8/18/2007 10:14:28 PM

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. (AP) - David Beckham made his first Major League Soccer start, Giants Stadium filled back up for soccer and the Galaxy and Red Bulls filled the net at a near-record pace.

Bringing back memories of the days Pele, Franz Beckenbauer and Giorgio Chinaglia brought excitement to soccer in the United States more than 25 years ago, Beckham drew 66,237 and helped set up three goals as Los Angeles lost a wild one, 5-4 to New York on Saturday night.

Giants Stadium is nearly empty for most Red Bulls' games - the team's average of 11,573 for its first 10 home matches was next to last in the league. The crowd that came out for Beckham was the largest in franchise history and the largest there for a U.S. league game since the Cosmos drew 70,312 against Fort Lauderdale on June 22, 1980.

''It makes you feel great. It makes you feel honoured,'' Beckham said. ''And hopefully, it continues, because this is what this league needs, this is what this sport needs in America.''

Beckham played his first full game since joining the Galaxy last month and did it on artificial turf, no less. An injured left ankle had caused the 32-year-old midfielder to miss five games and come in as a late sub in two others. He made his first start Wednesday, playing 63 minutes in a SuperLiga match.

He limped at the end and his ankle was swollen, but he hopes to make his 97th appearance for England in an exhibition against Germany at Wembley on Wednesday night, then play eight time zones away Thursday night in MLS's version of a soccer ''derby'' - Los Angeles vs. Chivas USA in Carson, Calif.

''My ankle took quite a bit of pounding, of course. It's a surface that I'm obviously not used to playing on,'' he said. ''There was a couple of instances that I sort of went over on my ankle. But at the end of the day we have to play on this surface.''

It was the 10th time in MLS history teams combined for nine or more goals and just two shy of the record set when Los Angeles beat Columbus 7-4 on May 6, 1998.

''It was very different,'' Beckham said. ''I haven't been involved in a game like that since I was 9 or 10 years old, where there were so many goals.''

Fans showed some support for the home team, many booing Beckham when he took corner kicks and free kicks. But they also lit up the stadium with camera flashes when he took his restarts, and they cheered him when he left the field, shirtless, displaying his many tattoos.

''I don't think there's anybody in this sport than can sell tickets the way he can,'' Red Bulls star Clint Mathis said. ''You can't tell me that there were 60-, 65,000 soccer fans there today. There was probably people that had no idea of what the game was going on about. But that's the people that we need to continue to draw.''

Beckham set up Carlos Pavon for goals in the sixth and eighth minutes, first with a corner kick and then with a 37-yard free kick. After current U.S. star Landon Donovan scored in the 71st, Beckham's corner kick in the 82nd led the goal that made it 4-all, with Edson Buddle scoring after Kyle Veris' header went off a post.

''Every ball he touched was a piece of magic,'' New York's Juan Pablo Angel said.

But that wasn't enough for Los Angeles (3-8-5), which has lost three straight MLS games and is 0-3-2 in its last five. It was a miserable night for the goalkeepers, Ronald Waterreus of the Red Bulls and Joe Cannon of the Galaxy.

Angel scored two goals that raised his season total to 12, getting the first of the game in the fourth minute and breaking a 4-4 tie in the 88th. Jozy Altidore, a 17-year-old whose play should soon get him a callup to the U.S. national team, scored in the 49th and 70th minutes for the Red Bulls, raising his season total to seven. Mathis scored in first half-injury time goal for New York (10-7-3).

''I'm never going to forget a game like this. It was really an amazing feeling,'' said Altidore, playing in front of a big crowd for the first time.

Bringing what he termed ''glamour and glitz'' to a sport in desperate need of both in the United States, Beckham was the centre of attention, clearly visible in white boots. The crowd displayed a soccer shop full of jerseys and while there were plenty of Beckham Galaxy shirts, there were just as many England jerseys in the stands.

It was a rare night of attention for the Red Bulls.

''We've struggled in this marketplace,'' New York coach Bruce Arena said. ''It's our job when people to show up to try and give them a reason to come back. So, hopefully, we converted a few people tonight.''

Mathis wants the crowds to keep coming.

''This is how it is in Europe. We should expect to have 60,000 every single game,'' he said. ''I don't care if we're playing David Beckham or the Kansas City Wizards. It should be like that every single game.''
 
I guess the US isnt used to people not hitting each other and having rough sports, maybe not the reason why the MLS isn't getting exactly as much viewers as wanted..
 
tpsreports2424 said:
I guess the US isnt used to people not hitting each other and having rough sports, maybe not the reason why the MLS isn't getting exactly as much viewers as wanted..

Baseball is a non-contact sport that puts a premium on carefully practiced skills rather than raw athletic ability, and it is the US's national pastime.

It's just not realistic for people to expect MLS to be transformed overnight into a top league that can compete with the European leagues. To get to that level, you need top players. To get top players, you need money. To get money, you need fans. To get fans, you need...top players. So progress is going to be very gradual.

Right now MLS is a second-rate league that eventually sends its best players (Brian McBride, Claudio Reyna, Brad Friedel, Tim Howard, and now Freddy Adu) overseas. While we'd like MLS to be a higher quality league, right now that's not such a bad place to be.
 
Soccer on artificial turf is just ridiculous. I tried watching some of that game yesterday, just horrible watching the ball bounce around like that.

It's less glamorous than the frantic 100mph EPL, but the best soccer is in the Bundesliga these days
 
speedracer said:


Baseball is a non-contact sport that puts a premium on carefully practiced skills rather than raw athletic ability,

Some noggin-enlarging performance enhancers help too if you REALLY want to succeed at it.....
 
Another reason why baseball and football are so popular in the States is because of fantasy leagues.

I've never seen a fantasy soccer league.
 
The Red Bulls will be moving to their new football specific stadium by 2009 at the latest, which will be a grass pitch thank god. This artificial FieldTurf regardless what they say in tests is still artificial at the end of the day, it's never going to be real turf. They say the reason for Beckham's four free kicks that were blocked by walls yesterday was because of the fake grass.

Toronto FC which has FieldTurf says it's staying because it creates money for multi-purpose reasons outside the football season. Real Salt Lake have it as well but will be moving to a new stadium next year. New England use it at Gillette Stadium but have also announced plans to move to a new stadium. This might leave Toronto as the only place that uses fake grass, this has to change in my opinion.

If you are going to attract big names from Europe then you need to have the playing conditions, at the very least the surface you play on, similar to what is used in Europe. This should be a fundamental approach in MLS. It blows me away actually.
 
Slipstream said:

If you are going to attract big names from Europe then you need to have the playing conditions, at the very least the surface you play on, similar to what is used in Europe. This should be a fundamental approach in MLS. It blows me away actually.

Bang on, Slipstream. Decent European players are going to be less likely to want to play for any MLS team if they have to suddenly switch to an artificial surface. It's one thing if you've spent your entire professional career training and playing on artificial turf, but if you haven't, the prospect of altering your style for a struggling league probably doesn't seem worth it. I'm surprised Toronto FC aren't making the effort to change to a normal grass pitch. I suppose I can understand it, though...new team, new stadium...they have a lot of costs they need to try to offset. Being able to use the artificial surface, at least temporarily until they get on their feet, will probably help bring in revenue through other ways. It would be in their best interests to get rid of the FieldTurf as soon as possible, however. If TFC had a few more Danny Dichios and a few more Andy Welshs, maybe they wouldn't be at the bottom of the standings...

But back to the original topic: it's going to take a hell of a lot more than ol' Becks to jumpstart football in the US. I don't know if US interest for the sport will ever be on par with football mania in Europe, South America and Africa. It's just not part of the culture, and I don't think it ever could be. Unless attitudes start changing drastically, that is. The idea of buying hotdogs at a baseball game, or cheering slam dunk after slam dunk, is just so inherently American. Beating a drum and chanting for a team that may or may not score one or two goals in the course of 90 minutes is not American in the slightest. They want touchdowns, they want home runs, they want tackles, they want three-point shots, they want stolen bases... MLS has tried to Americanise football and make it more appealing to the target audience. I mean, when I was watching an away match between Toronto FC and some American team, I nearly gagged when the cheerleaders came out with their pom poms. The only 'Poms' that belong in football are of the British variety. :wink: It's just not enough though, for a population that tends only to support MLB, NFL and NBA. From what I've been able to gather from the few MLS matches I've watched, people just don't know how to respond to the sport. Oh, there are some hugely dedicated fans, don't get me wrong... but venues usually seem to be half empty and lukewarm in volume.

The great exception to this by far is Toronto FC. Home matches are always sold out, people sing, people bang on drums, people hurl streamers and seat covers onto the pitch...hell, at the 24th minute of every match, they sing a song just for Dichio because he scored the club's first ever goal. That's the way it should be at a football match. Sometimes, if I close my eyes and disregard the poor quality football on the screen, I feel like I'm listening to an English Premiership crowd. They just "get it" in Canada. Instead of taking the attitude of "Well, it's not Canadian, so I'm not going to watch it or support it", people have embraced Toronto FC completely. And they're at the bottom of the eastern standings! It just goes to show that a team doesn't have to be good to generate incredible amounts of interest. Toronto FC doesn't need a star like Beckham to help them sell out seats, because the interest is there to begin with. More of what's happening in Toronto needs to happen in the US. I really think it's a cultural thing at the end of the day. You could substitute the ENTIRE American league with Europe's finest, and still have the same lacklustre following that MLS currently has. Until more Americans embrace football for what it is, David Beckham's presence won't do a damn thing. He may cause a peak curiosity for a year or so, but he won't revolutionise the game in the long run.
 
LemonMacPhisto said:
Another reason why baseball and football are so popular in the States is because of fantasy leagues.

I've never seen a fantasy soccer league.

You have this reversed.

The reason Fantasy leagues exist here are because sports like baseball and football are so popular.

Anyway.

GG just said it best.

Soccer will never catch on here beyond the rising participation of youth leagues. Soccer is nothing new, this country has had ages to embrace it, or to not. When Pele was in NYC, the Cosmos were wildly popular for a while, but, it died down and soccer went back to being some obscure sport played overseas.

I've watched a lot of soccer, for an american at least, and I've come to appreciate it a lot more than ever, but, still, I only get jazzed for The World Cup, or something like the Champion's Cup, or when the US plays other international opponents. It just will never be for me what football and baseball are (and, I don't actually want HR's, I want well pitched games, but that's another thread).

So, Beckham is here, and it's good for Galaxy attendance and good for local TV ratings on FSN Prime Ticket, but, I'd be shocked if the impact goes beyond that.
 
True, but the fantasy leagues probably fuel more coverage of those sports by THE WORLDWIDE LEADER ™.
 
I disagree, in a humble way, of course. :)

The worldwider leader is fueled by whatever sports they have a national contract for. Notice their extensive NASCAR coverage now, as opposed to 2 years ago, when there was none. NHL? Disappeared.

The worldwide leader is just a 24-hour crosspromotional vehicle that happens to have the $$ $ to secure rights to heavily watched sports.
 
LemonMacPhisto said:
they stick almost all soccer on ESPN Deportes.

I had to look that up. They seriously air most of it on THAT programme?! :huh: Crazy... Here, you can watch it on CBC (Canada's national station) or Roger's Sportsnet (one of the most popular cable/satellite networks in Canada).
 
soccer actually gets really good ratings in canada...

i'd say there's little doubt that as a whole, soccer is right behind hockey in canada. maybe cfl/nfl would be ahead, but it's close.
 
GibsonGirl said:


I had to look that up. They seriously air most of it on THAT programme?! :huh: Crazy... Here, you can watch it on CBC (Canada's national station) or Roger's Sportsnet (one of the most popular cable/satellite networks in Canada).

It's pretty crazy.

I remember going on a cruise one year and my dad and I wanted to watch the Florida State college football game. All the ship had was ESPN Deportes and instead of showing the game, they were showing highlights of stock car racing.

Lots of exciting programming on ESPN Deportes.
 
LemonMacPhisto said:


It's pretty crazy.

I remember going on a cruise one year and my dad and I wanted to watch the Florida State college football game. All the ship had was ESPN Deportes and instead of showing the game, they were showing highlights of stock car racing.

Lots of exciting programming on ESPN Deportes.

Fox Soccer Channel :up: :up:

EPL every Saturday and Sunday morning
Serie A
Bundesliga
 
I'm really rooting for Galaxy to do something because Pavón is Honduran and perhaps the biggest idol in the local team Real España (reigning champs mind you :wink: ) but I just can't believe how they keep racking up losses.

They really need to get their act together. :madspit:
 
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