financeguy
ONE love, blood, life
Sleep Over Jack said:Its just over-simplifying things to say John=experimental, a real artist, McCartney= a mere fluff artist..but then I'd expect such pretentious musings on this site.
I agree with you.
Sleep Over Jack said:Its just over-simplifying things to say John=experimental, a real artist, McCartney= a mere fluff artist..but then I'd expect such pretentious musings on this site.
U2Man said:
Great post namkcuR
namkcuR said:Same with Long And Winding Road, there were some orchestral elements there too.
namkcuR said:I think Lennon probably needed McCartney to add that complexity and polish and at times layering to his music.
Sleep Over Jack said:
Paul was responsible for a lot of the trippier stuff on Tomorrow Never Knows and Strawberrry Fields...I fail to see how he was any less experimental than John, and for my money he was a little better with a melody and a MUCH better singer.
Sleep Over Jack said:
It was he who came up with the great Sgt. Pepper concept and propped the band up during Let It Be (John was pretty weak on this album) and Abbey Road periods(he basically masterminded the immense medley with George Martin).
Sleep Over Jack said:
Its just over-simplifying things to say John=experimental, a real artist, McCartney= a mere fluff artist
Sleep Over Jack said:
..but then I'd expect such pretentious musings on this site.
God Part III said:
People fancying McCartney =
U2Man said:
namkcuR said:
Although, the melody of 'In My Life' is hardly anything to be ashamed of - it's on par, imo, with any melody McCartney ever wrote save for perhaps 'Yesterday'.
WOW! That's awesome!namkcuR said:Of course McCartney wasn't a 'fluff artist'. That's just silly on the part of whoever said that. But he and Lennon each had skills and character traits that the other one lacked. It's not neccessarily about good and bad or better at and worse at. It's just differences they had between them.
The differences I'm thinking of are these:
Rawness
I've always felt that Lennon was rawer than McCartney, both in his songwriting and his singing. Far more often would you hear a Lennon-composed song that basically consisted of a guitar or two and a vocal track(or that kind of thing) than you would a McCartney track of that style(although when McCartney did, he managed to make some of the greatest songs in history i.e. 'Yesterday' and 'Blackbird'). Where his singing is concerned, the rawness lies in the fact that he, imo, was better at emoting with his voice than McCartney was. I think McCartney probably has a slightly wider range in his voice and perhaps is a better 'technical' singer, but I have always felt that Lennon could convey emotions and feelings, particular innocence, sadness, anger, bitterness, longing, reflectiveness, and nostalgia(and things like that) better than McCartney could.
Complexity
I think McCartney's songs were probably, for the most part, more complex than Lennon's, both in the music and in the arrangements. Take 'Eleanor Rigby' - there were orchestral elements to this song that demonstrate a certain complexity that perhaps McCartney was better at writing with. Same with Long And Winding Road, there were some orchestral elements there too. I don't off the top of my head recall if there are any Lennon songs with orchestral elements/arrangements, but think of songs like 'She's Leaving Home', 'Lovely Rita', 'You Never Give Me Your Money'(and various parts of the AR medley), and the aforementioned 'Eleanor Rigby' and 'The Long And Winding Road'; There's a certain complexity with regards to musical arrangements and musical layering that I think McCartney is probably the superior in.
Attitude
This has been echoed by a lot of people, and I can't think of a better way to say it, but, Lennon just seemed to have a certain 'edge' about him and his music that I've never really felt with McCartney. I have a theory as to what that 'edge' really was. In the late sixties and seventies, Lennon came off as sort of this peace-loving hippie-type, and in part because of that, I think he came off as more of a 'rock star' than McCartney. Of course this is all image, but the image is a reflection of what's inside, and what's inside is ultimately responsible for the music. What was inside Lennon, I think, was a hunger for political change, maybe even cultural change. I think he wanted push the envelope in life by challenging the way we think of the BIG things; religion, politics, life, self, etc. And I think that obviously had to carry over to his music. Now, when you write lyrics about that stuff, they were bound to be provacative and even prolific at times, and as a songwriter you want the music to match the words. Hence, just like he pushed the envelope in life, he pushed the envelope in the music too. The result of this comes through clearest, imo, when you look at the way the two did 'rock' music. It is my feeling that when McCartney did 'rock', it was more 50s-ish Jerry Lee Lewis style(though musically much more inventive) whereas when Lennon did 'rock', it was more 70s-AND-ONWARD Zeppelin-style, a style from which most of today's better rock music was spawned. That's my long-winded interpretation of their difference in attitude and what that Lennon 'edge' was about. As a sidenote, please understand that when I compare Mac to Lewis and Lennon to Zep, I am not saying they're cut from the exact same cloth, I'm just applying some general frames-of-reference to my very broad interpretations of two different styles.
Melodies/Ear
I think McCartney probably had a better musical ear than Lennon(though to write what Lennon wrote you still have to have an elite ear, I think). What I mean by this, just so we're all on the same page, is the ability to hear a piece of music and then hum/whistle/sing it with exceeding accurateness, and to recognize different notes and keys and the like without looking at sheet music. I think the better you are this, the better you will be at writing musical compositions. It's like, the best authors are almost certainly voracious readers themselves, right? The better a reader you are, the better a writer you will be, and the better a listener(in a technical sense) you are, the better a composer you could be. I'm saying all of this in a very general sense of course. Anyway, having a somewhat better musical ear is probably a big factor in why McCartney, in most peoples' eyes(I think) is superior in the melody-writing department. 'Yesterday' is arguably the greatest melody in the history of pop music. Although, the melody of 'In My Life' is hardly anything to be ashamed of - it's on par, imo, with any melody McCartney ever wrote save for perhaps 'Yesterday'.
Bottom Line
I think what this basically all comes down to is that, McCartney probably needed Lennon to add that 'edge' and innovation and ability to emote to his music, and I think Lennon probably needed McCartney to add that complexity and polish and at times layering to his music. Listen to Lennon's solo music. It is very raw most of the time, but also very emotive most of the time. I love it. Listen to McCartney's solo(or even Wings) music. It is probably more complex than Lennon's solo stuff, and sometimes maybe even more technically sound, but I don't think I've heard a McCartney solo or Wings song that carried the emotional punch of 'Jealous Guy' or 'Imagine' or 'Working Class Hero' or 'Mother'. They definitely needed each other, but while I love a lot of McCartney's Beatles songs, I will always prefer Lennon. I know it's cliche, but because of his ability to emote, and because of his desire(or what I percieve to be desire) to change the way people think with his music, I see him as more of an 'artist'(yes, in the most idealistic, romantic, perhaps naive way imaginable).
But they were both, without doubt, indisputably two of the greatest songwriters in the history of pop music.
sallycinnamon78 said:I realise I'm more than a little late jumping in here...
The answer is RINGO!
Not really, but it usually shocks everyone in the room into silence, during the endless Lennon/Macca debates.
Acrobat_Al said:Just for the record:
In my life was written by McCartney, the lyrics are Lennon's...
'Got to get you into my life' it's not about girls, it's about drugs...