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Old 12-15-2006, 11:22 PM   #16
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Criteria - a player you've seen play on TV or in person and can vividly recall, not all-time players. Put together a team designed to win, not just the best player you've seen at each position. In other words, make sure you have a lead-off hitter, some defense out there, etc.

using that, i'm going to go with

rf- ichiro
2b- roberto alomar
lf - barry bonds
1b- albert pujols
ss- alex rodriguez
c- ivan rodriguez
cf- ken griffey jr.
3b- scott rolen

sp- pedro martinez
sp- roger clemens
sp- randy johnson
sp- kevin brown
sp- greg maddux

closer- eric gagne
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Old 12-15-2006, 11:47 PM   #17
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You know, in retrospect, maybe I'd go with Ichiro.....Brown was devastating at his best, but, was often not at his best.....
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Old 12-16-2006, 12:17 AM   #18
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ummmmmm no.

bob gibson anyone? sandy koufax? hello?




maybe, but arguable.
Yes, I'm biased. You got me.

I'd put him on that level of Koufax and Gibson though. All of his downhill years make people forget sometimes just how dominant he was. And twitchy. Very twitchy.
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Old 12-16-2006, 11:46 AM   #19
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You know, in retrospect, maybe I'd go with Ichiro.....Brown was devastating at his best, but, was often not at his best.....
yes and by the criteria i thought we were just going by the best during their prime. gagne and brown certainly dont have longevity, but they were amazing when they were at their best.
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Old 12-16-2006, 02:57 PM   #20
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I guess it's all about how you define prime. I was thinking players that had a prime that lasted several years...Brown would qualify, Gagne, sadly , no.....I hope Gagne can pitch this season, he's fun to watch.
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Old 12-16-2006, 09:45 PM   #21
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i define prime as a player at their best. eric gagne qualifies for me since, albeit on steroids probably, he did set the consecutive saves record allowing only 31 hits in those 63 saves as well as over 100 K's.

During his career, Gagné has converted 161 saves out of 167 save opportunities for a conversion rate of 96%. It is not uncommon for even the most successful closers to have 6 or more blown saves in a season, let alone a career. By comparison, Mariano Rivera has a conversion rate of 88%, Trevor Hoffman's is 89%, and Billy Wagner's is 86%. Each of these elite closers has blown 6 save opportunities in a season at least once, although their careers outspan Gagné's.

if im talking whole careers, im taking mariano hands down. but if im talking about during their prime, i'm taking eric gagne. he was absoultly untouchable and won the cy young as a relief pitcher...not an all too common thing.
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Old 12-16-2006, 11:29 PM   #22
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Reyes at SS? Really? Friggin Met fans.
yup... was a-rod better? yup... ripkin? yup... tejada even, sure, why not. but you said develop a lineup, not just a dream team.

if i'm taking manny ramirez, thus not taking ricky henderson, i need a dynamic speedster at the top to hit in front of the greatest #2 hitter to ever play, tony gwynn. reyes it is. he put up numbers not seen from a leadoff hitter last year since henderson i his prime.
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Old 12-16-2006, 11:30 PM   #23
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i define prime as a player at their best. eric gagne qualifies for me since, albeit on steroids probably, he did set the consecutive saves record allowing only 31 hits in those 63 saves as well as over 100 K's.

During his career, Gagné has converted 161 saves out of 167 save opportunities for a conversion rate of 96%. It is not uncommon for even the most successful closers to have 6 or more blown saves in a season, let alone a career. By comparison, Mariano Rivera has a conversion rate of 88%, Trevor Hoffman's is 89%, and Billy Wagner's is 86%. Each of these elite closers has blown 6 save opportunities in a season at least once, although their careers outspan Gagné's.

if im talking whole careers, im taking mariano hands down. but if im talking about during their prime, i'm taking eric gagne. he was absoultly untouchable and won the cy young as a relief pitcher...not an all too common thing.
i see where you're going there, but it's the post-season performances that still make it mo for me.
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Old 12-16-2006, 11:50 PM   #24
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i see where you're going there, but it's the post-season performances that still make it mo for me.

yeah, theres no arguing against taking mariano whatsoever, especially with his post season track record... aside from blowing the 2001 world series . but yeah, full careers or even taking post season into account, mariano. i can't really hold that to gagne because, well, LA hasn't been the powerhouse the yankees have been. who knows how gagne would have flourished or choked in that situation.

plus, i enjoy being different in my picks...even if most of them are the same. if this were a true all-time team, then it would be a lot different. but since im 19 and only really paid attention from about 1996 onwards, my pool of players to pick is significantly smaller.
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Old 12-16-2006, 11:58 PM   #25
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yeah, theres no arguing against taking mariano whatsoever, especially with his post season track record... aside from blowing the 2001 world series .
While we're picking on Rivera, he also failed to close the door on the Red Sox in 2004
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Old 12-17-2006, 12:30 AM   #26
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C- Mike Piazza
1B- Frank Thomas
2B- Ryne Sandberg
3B- George Brett
SS- Barry Larkin
LF- Rickey Henderson
CF- Ken Griffey Jr.
RF- Tony Gwynn

Util- Craig Biggio

Lineup:
Henderson (R)
Gwynn (L)
Thomas (R)
Griffey (L)
Piazza (R)
Brett (L)
Sandberg (R)
Larkin (R)

Can you imagine having to pitch to this team? It'd be a nightmare on your bullpen trying to pitch matchups plus other than Thomas and Piazza these guys all had good to great speed plus their hitting abilities. Teams could run on me and first base's defense might be kinda weak but I think the offensive pop of these two could more than compensate.

Starting 5-
Roger Clemens
Greg Maddux
Nolan Ryan
Pedro Martinez
Johan Santana

Closer- Rivera
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Old 12-17-2006, 01:46 PM   #27
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A few people picked Johan....I think that a few years from now, if he keeps his current pace up, I'd go with him, too. He's so impressive, that change up is unhittable. Nolan Ryan is tempting.

As for Reyes, Headache, explanation makes sense, just wanted to hear your rationale. I hate the Mets but enjoy Reyes and Wright, who wouldn't?

I just can't see Gagne over Rivera here, but, again, that's the fun of it.

Ok, just saw a promo for Armed and Dangerous during the Steeler game...what the hell? Celebrities acting as REAL cops. Ugh, makes me want to no longer work in TV.
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Old 12-17-2006, 04:41 PM   #28
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1988-present

1B- Albert Pujols
2B- Robbie Alomar
3B- Wade Boggs
SS- Derek Jeter
CF- Griffey Jr.
LF- Rickey Henderson
RF- Larry Walker
C- Joe Mauer
Bench- Vlad Guerrero

SP- Greg Maddux
SP- Pedro Martinez
SP- Roger Clemens
SP- John Smoltz
SP- Johan Santana

RP- John Wetteland

Batting Order
1 Henderson
2 Alomar
3 Griffey
4 Pujols
5 Walker
6 Boggs
7 Jeter
8 Mauer
9 Greg Maddux

Manager- Bobby Cox
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Old 12-17-2006, 07:10 PM   #29
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While I haven't come up with my own list, I know that I wouldn't have Nolan Ryan on the list. He accomplished a lot of great things, but they were mainly the result of longevity over dominance. He struck a ton of people out, but he gave up a crazy amount of walks (twice over 200 in a season) and never really had a season of being untouchable like a Pedro, Clemens, etc. Just my opinion.
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Old 12-17-2006, 10:26 PM   #30
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From what I understand, the deal with Nolan Ryan, was that he really tried to be unhittable. A lot of pitchers get you out by setting you up to hit their "out" pitch. Ryan was different. He wouldn't give you a pitch to hit and thus threw a lot of balls when he was trying to hit the fringes of the strike zone. Ryan walked a lot of guys because he was ornery not because he lacked control.
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