Argentina 0 England masquerading as the Italian defence 1

[brettig]

Impressive, dogged and team oriented display by England tonight, they really couldve scored a couple more, and the defending was so desperate...

Fitting that Becks would score from the spot after '98

 

[Holly]

Awesome

England played excellent the first half, They were on the back foot a bit in the last 20 minutes, But deserved to win..

And how sweet it was

Come on sweden

 

[coolhandlaura]

oh bloody great now well never hear the end of it.

What makes me laugh is that if Beckham had have missed that penalty it would have been 98 all over again. The english fans and media are so fickle its unreal.

Imagine if It was David Beckham instead of Roy Keane walked out? Death threats, media crucifixions, the whole shebang.

i dont like england at all, as you might have guessed, i wanted argentina to win, but i still wanted Beckham to score that penalty, because if he had have missed, he would have been crucified!i felt sorry for him!

England are obsessed with 1966, the pressure on the team is unreal. And while i dont want to tar all english with the same brush- i know loads of english people and they are lovely, but their "fans" are an absolute disgrace. Louts. They seem to have a misplaced sense of "We used to rule the world so now we can do what we want". as i said, i know there are a lot of good fans out there not like that, but the world gets the impression of the small few.
The Japanese thought that we were like the hooligans from england at first, because our countries are beside each other, and that really p***ed me off too.

the next few days in the media will be so bad!And Beckham will be hailed as a hero! Flippin hypocrisy at its worst, seeing as they made his life hell four years ago and hes only recently emerged from the shadow.

 

[Salome]

I haven't seen it yet
but so far every commentator seems to think it was an undeserved penalty

so,
what's the deal ?

 

[coolhandlaura]

well i did actually think it was a clear penalty!

The game was good but i cant help feeling that argentina were beaten by their own poorness on the day rather than Englands greatness.

What y'all think?

By the way, Scholes is a star, a fantastic player, he should get a lot of the credit. The best thing that happened to england in that game was Hargreaves coming off, because Scholes was stifled on the left, its not his natural position, and he wasnt able to show his brilliant creativity.

Wasnt impressed with Beckham at all, although i suppose it was to be expected with the injury and all

 

[bullet the blue sky]

Obviously those commentators were Argentinian then.

England deserved to win and anyone who thinks otherwise is deserving of being taken outside and ran over by a very large bus. A few times.

And ccolhandlaura, you are an absolute disgrace. If you are so bothered about the fickleness of the English media, I suggest two words to you... "Eamonn" and "Dunphy".

You are only jealous because Ireland have still only ever won one game at a World Cup finals

 

[yertle-the-turtle]

This is going to get ugly...

 

[Salome]

Obviously those commentators were Argentinian then.

no, they are from Belgium

 

[bullet the blue sky]

Would these be the same Belgians who conceded a perfectly good goal to Japan the other day?

Good win for Holland last week too.

 

[coolhandlaura]

oh yeah, eamonn dunphy. OBVIOUSLY the treatment Beckham received 4 years ago is nowhere near as bad as what eamonn dunphy said.

OBVIOUSLY roy keane will soon be driven out of ireland to retreat to america with his wife. In case you didnt realise, he flew back INTO ireland last week, not OUT of.

and of course a country with an entire population which is equal to a third of the population of london alone even reaching the world cup is shit. y'know, OBVIOUSLY.

look bullet, i dont want to fight with you, but, not just on a Defending England To Ireland point of view, what do you think of your media, and the hooligans who like to call themselves fans?

Im not implying in any way you are one of these, im not trying to "get one over on england" im just putting my opinion forward. Or is that not allowed anymore? That makes me a disgrace?

Oh yeah and seeing as youre allowed to hark back on past victories-

Stuttgart 1988, Ray Houghton, 1-0.

 

[bullet the blue sky]

But David Beckham has come back to score lots of goals for England.

Roy Keane has ran away from Ireland for good. I really don't see your point.

I wasn't harking back at history, and you know if I did I would win that argument. So let's not go there.

As for the hooligans who call themselves fans, I don't really want to go down there either. They are just thugs who use football as an excuse to go have a fight. If football wasn't popular, and rugby was, they'd be rugby hooligans. It is a matter of convenience to them. And as we know, the more sinister Irish people tend to spend their time doing "other" things rather than bother with being hooligans at football games.

And I called you a disgrace for going on about the whole Beckham thing for no apparent reason. You are obviously a Roy Keane fan and probably a Manchester United fan. So I suppose I had better take pity on you instead of berate you

 

[mad1]

alright alright.. ALRIGHT! cool it Bullet


Fraid to say son I saw a documentary on English hooligans......................I seriously had to work at pickin my jaw up off the floor.

 

[bullet the blue sky]

Well you should see the Dutch, German, Yugoslav, Turkish, Italian, Argentine and Croat hooligans then.

 

[mad1]

Well maybe so Bullet, but its almost like the English hooligans are seen or made to be seen as the worst because they are so destructive.......

and another thing.......during whatever year and time it was, when over here in Ireland, England and Ireland were playin........who instigated the rioting there?

England of course........Ireland were calm, but England became unncessarily abusive over political reasons........unbelievable! Considerin there were kids there.......and the adults acted wags.

sorry Bullet, but sometimes it pees me off..............although I understand u stickin up for ur country......

 

[bullet the blue sky]

I would hardly say I am sticking up for my country. I am just pointing out that these hooligans in other countries are a lot worse. However, such is the English media's obsession with these hooligans, every time they do so much as breathe then its all over the news... whereas in other countries - Italy particularly - they try to ignore their own problems altogether. Everyone in England knows this.

I have been to probably closing in on 500 games of football in England and have never seen any real trouble... I went abroad to France four years ago to watch Germany v Yugoslavia and a policeman got put into a coma. But no-one remembers stuff like that.

 

[mad1]

 

[coolhandlaura]

look bullet

i am Not a Roy Keane fan. i mentioned it because if an ENGLAND captain did such a thing, he would be hounded and his life made a misery, deservedly or not.

I am NOT a manchester united fan. if i was i would be a fan of money, not football.

eamonn dunphy?FICKLE? well yes he is.....if you consider that he has ALWAYS loathed the FAI, and he has ALWAYS liked keane. i would consider that being fickle in a most unfickle way.

i agree that its not JUST england that have hooligans but i dont believe theyre not the worst. i remember that Mad, the game had to be postponed after 20mins-20mins!- because the hooligans were throwing bottles at the irish. english soccer hooligans are a disgrace, not me.

i do NOT appreciate your snide remarks about what would-be-irish hooligans doing something else with their time. that is below the proverbial belt. As much as you can defend English fans, i really dont see how you can attack Irish fans. you havent got much fire power there have you?

 

[Salome]

Well you should see the Dutch, German, Yugoslav, Turkish, Italian, Argentine and Croat hooligans then.

I haven't heard of any incidents with dutch hooligans during this world cup yet

 

[mad1]

Also I found it extrememly disturbing how English football hooligans can be against other team fans in their own country.......................

It was a programme I watched where Im pretty sure it was one English game against another............Im soooooo sure it was that...........and what do one of the leaders of one side do..........and hes well known in England.......

gets his pple in droves to hide round behind walls and on top of buildings and behind buildings and waits for the other teams fans to come out and have them attacked upon?????

Holy fuck! Excuse me.........but to hear that a lot were seriously injured with broken teeth, broken noses, legs, arms........jeesh..............all because this ass and his gang decided to pick and attack on the other side's fans...............like, is there not something wrong with that picture?

Innocent pple being almost killed?

and nobody better start on anythin political in NI, cause thats a whole diff story thank u...I will be well pissed off...Im tryin to state here that football should be a game, u support who u support and nobody should be attacked........its now become a 'bloody' sport or somethin.........its become a vicious game.

 

[bullet the blue sky]

The sooner you realise that hooliganism is hooliganism in no matter what shape or form then the better you will understand this argument. It is a question of the less intelligent section of English youths using football as a tool to create organised violence either against different towns or against different countries. Please note that the key there is "organised"... it means that both sides are in on it, be them from England, Germany, Holland, Turkey or whatever. You only have to do a bit of digging on the internet to find these websites.

That said, as you have probably all been aware, there have been the fantastic total of no trouble at any England game so far in the World Cup. So actually, I think it was bad for any of you to bring it up in the first place.

Let me tell you a story.

A friend of mine went to Italy the other year to watch a game. English team against Italian team. There wasn't any trouble until before the game, when English fans stood about minding their own business were stabbed by Italians driving around by mopeds, who would use small knives to stab people in the backside then ride off. In many ways, that is even more sly than English hooligans going on the rampage. English hooligans are stupid because they do it in such a way that it draws attention to themselves - which is what they want. Some hooligans are even minor celebrities in certain sections of the media, such as writing their own books and so on.

In the past five years, in England there have been next to no violent incidents in and around football grounds. The reasons for that are better policing and better crowd control. Therefore, the hooligans have taken to organising fights anyway, regardless of football. That proves that they are not fans at all. It is the same in every other country that there is hooliganism - they couldn't care less about the football, all they want is a fight. Anyone who thinks otherwise is being incredibly naive.

95% of people injured in hooliganism in or around football grounds were there for the sole purpose of injuring somebody else.

And ccolhandlaura, I was not attacking Irish fans. I was merely pointing out that the hooligans of Irish society are too busy doing other things. Every country has their own set of idiots who are sickly idolised by others. Hooliganism at sporting arenas IS a political problem... but the politicians are either too stupid or scared to realise that.

I mean, I could go on about this! But in the end I'd be wasting my breath. You are too set in your ways to change your mind.

 

[coolhandlaura]

i realise youre not attacking irish fans bullet, but you were sort of attacking irish people by implying that the reason we dont have any hooligans is because were all in the bloody IRA! i completely agree with Mad, this is DEFINATELY notthe time nor the place for us to get into discussing thousands of years of history, especially seeing as this is already a heated debate.mad lives in belfast. i live in dundalk,on the border, and you live in england, so i do not think it would be a good idea!

as i said, i DO see your point of view that have been other HORRIFIC incidents involving foreign "Fans", but i dont think any country has such a bad record for sustained hooliganism.

to be honest, and i may be way off track, some of it seems to do with drink- the irish, for example, when they drink, the MAJORITY seem to just get happy,or sleepy and have a good sing-song. Some of the english, as an example on the other hand, seem to get aggressive and loud. I am by no means saying this is true in all or even most cases,...its just what strikes me.

im trying not to be set in my ways, im trying to make you see where im coming from too. Obviously we're both doing the whole "protect the National pride thing", and theres nothing wrong with that.

But look, i just dont want you to think im a narrow-minded bigot who is anti-english. I'm not. But its just things like the the english media, the football hooligans, and the queen out celebrating the jubilee with a spectacle costing thousands, when theres people sleeping on the street, that make my blood boil. God knows Irelands not perfect-far from it!but maybe i should have thought of all the english people on this forum before i wrote my initial comment, but i was very p***ed off!

i still stand by everything i said though.

 

[Holly]

Laura you really shoulld live up to your nickname, Cool you are not, If a football match wound me up as much as that one did you, I would not watch it...

I love all this "Im Irish or Scotish and I hate the English lol Its so Braveheart "ALL ENGLAND FANS ARE LOUTS" Thats very funny, You know them all personally then,

And why discuss Hooligans, was there a riot today??? As somebody else said Hooligans are a minority and not restricted to England, Its people like you who hate the English OBVIOUSLY that like to blame the English for every fight that happens at a football ground..

I also felt sorry for the treatment Beckam got after the world cup 98, It was unjustified, but he came through it and like he said yesterday on TV, is a better person for it (and a better player), I was glad to see him score today from a penalty that was most definatley a penalty..

We played well, Argentina are a world class side (as everybody on here keeps saying) We stopped them from playing flowing football and had more chances to win the game..

I hope Ireland do well as I know most english people do, Its a pity they have such small minded fans...

 

[coolhandlaura]

1*sigh* I did not say i hated all english
2- I did not say all english fans are louts-did you actually READ my posts- i said quite the opposite.
3-this discussion gradually got onto hooliganism through my views on the fickleness of the english media, and to some extent, the fans.

did i say i hate the english? No.Did i say ALL english fans are louts? No. Stop taking words from my mouth, i do not appreciate it.

SMALL MINDED? no offense, but youre bloody one to talk. if you must know, it wasnt just the game today which made me write the first post, but youre bigoted comment in another post.

"All the irish players are probably english anyway."

whether you come back and say it was a joke or not, it doesnt matter, it was in ill-taste for reasons i will not talk about here. i have already asked you to discuss that comment on the afore-mentioned post.

to be honest, i would leave the debating for your side to Bullet The Blue Sky, he does a much better job of it.

am i being too "hot"? better put this in then

 

[bullet the blue sky]

A heated debate ends with me being complimented. I do believe that is a job well done

 

[coolhandlaura]

so are we cool bullet? i hope you can see my point of view, im seeing yours, so i hope we're not gonna do a Roy-Mick! seriously though, good discussion, thered be nothing interesting without opposing opinions!

Interference buddies, truce, whatever?

 

[Holly]

i dont like england at all,

And while i dont want to tar all english with the same brush- i know loads of english people and they are lovely, but their "fans" are an absolute disgrace. Louts. They seem to have a misplaced sense of "We used to rule the world so now we can do what we want". as i said, i know there are a lot of good fans out there not like that, but the world gets the impression of the small few.
The Japanese thought that we were like the hooligans from england at first, because our countries are beside each other, and that really p***ed me off too.

Have a day off for christ sake Laura You only have to know where Ireland is to qualify to play for them

Glad you made up with bullet beacsue it was sad to watch

 

[coolhandlaura]

Have a day off for christ sake Laura You only have to know where Ireland is to qualify to play for them

Im not even gonna dignify that with a response except to say it your type of attitude that has some english fans portrayed the way they are. Its also that type of response that makes me wonder whether YOU know where ireland is.

And if it was that sad to watch, why did you watch it?


But having said that, i hope our obviously HUGE difference of opinion on this matter doesnt mean a feud so can we just leave it at this?

 

[Desert_Sky]

Well, after everything thats been said above i would just like to refer back to the game.
I am very VERY happy about this victory, i think it was deserved after the way they battled out on the pitch, every player should be given the credit and not just Beckham. If we churn out performances like that we could do very well (although that will be the day we perform like that in EVERY game hehe) and i do believe that the Argentinians can be very 'aggressive'
I think that we are entitled to be pleased with this victory, and that we should enjoy it before the start of the Nigeria game where its back to business again..
COME ON ENGLAND!!!

 

[coolhandlaura]

every player should be given the credit and not just Beckham.

i agree. fair play to beckham and all for holding his nerve- i betcha there were flashbacks to 98!- but the real stars of that game were Paul Scholes and Nicky Butt, especially Scholes. He was fantastic, and as i said earlier, the best thing that happened to england in that game was Hargreaves coming off! It gave Scholes the opportunity in the middle where he is best.

Ps Glad to get the discussion back onto football Desert Sky!

 

[Desert_Sky]

Yeah that was good Hargreaves coming off...Which is horrible to say because i feel Hargreaves was deservedly in the side, i have high hopes for him!
I'm so emotionally drained now. The second half was so nail biting to watch!

Sorry, i really like this flag doing its blowing in the wind thingy!