Are you ready for some football? The official 2004-05 NFL Thread.

[U2Kitten]

and after all this talk I bet what we really get is Steelers-Falcons!

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Yes, money talks ... blah, blah, blah.

What if I had no respect for my boss and and because I didn't agree with what she was presenting in a meeting I decided to leave the meeting early because I was afraid I would do something "stupid" (Moss claimed he left early because he didn't want to get penalized for throwing his helmet, etc).

My boss would hand me my ass on a plate. Moss is paid to play and be on the field and there is no excuse for him leaving a game early.

I don't expect the NFL to fine Moss for what he did in the endzone, I think it's up to the Vikings organization to deal with Moss.

i'm going out on a limb here... but i'm gonna venture to guess that your boss makes more money than you. there-in lies the difference.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

donovon mcnabb excites me about as much as having a spoon shoved up my arse excites me.

frankly at this point i believe the only NFC teams that can make the super bowl remotely interesting are the vikings & the rams... at least they can score.

what i'm baffled at is the spread of the eagles vikings game... the eagles, without TO, are favored by 9 1/2? and not only favored by 9 1/2, an over-under of 48? the only way they get to 48 points is if minnesota blows them out... the only way the eagles cover the spread is if the teams combine for less than 24 points.

if you're taking the eagles, take the under... if you're taking the over, take the vikings.

aaaand now to the pats vs. the colts.

hewson's already getting defensive about the pats, doing his best oliver stone with the implications that somehow the NFL is going to assure that mcnabb and manning are in the super bowl. interesting... michael strahan is a big campbell's soup guy also... how come the NFL didn't try to make sure the giants made the playoffs? ahh that's right... they fucking suck.

the colts offense is playing at a level not seen in a long time. that said, they do have that hurdle to climb... the hurdle is in foxboro. they always lose there. so this game this weekend, all the pressure IS on peyton manning. he's had the greatest season of any quarterback ever... but if he goes out and stinks up the joint again, then it's all for not. if he goes out and puts up peyton like numbers yet loses again, well... he's vindicated performance wise, but he still can't be put on that next level... with the greatest to ever play... until he knocks off new england and gets to the super bowl.

if ever there was a year that the pats were ripe for the picking, it's this year... the colts offense is amazing, and the pats are missing both of their starting corners. but that said... the pats always win, so until the colts pull it off, you have to give the mental edge to the pats. belichik always manages to pull some trick out of his ass. he really is a mad genious...

so in other words... while i think the colts are gonna roll, i sure as shit ain't betting against the defending champs. it should be a great game.

 

[U2Kitten]

Also don't forget the Tony Dungy thing, he wants a Super Bowl badly, his old team the Bucs went after he was gone. So don't think Belicheck is the only coach working hard this week! All I can do is hope for the Colts.

 

[Chizip]

im pretty sure all coaches will be qorking equally hard to get a win

except for martz of course, he's a genius so he doesnt have to work much

 

[popacrobat]

martz doesnt have to work much because he already knows hes going to throw it 500 times.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

martz doesnt have to work much because he already knows hes going to throw it 500 times.

 

[Chizip]

i like how people pile on martz for this now

when the rams set a record with 3 500+ point seasons in a row there didnt seem to be much critisizing


and have you happened to check out the pass-run ratio for the superbowl champs last year? one of the highest in the league, same with philly last year, same with indy this year

you play to your strengths, and if throwing the ball is your strength then you do that

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

meh... i'm picking the rams and the vikings. if the eagles play the falcons in the NFC title game, i ain't watchin.

and i'm not picking on martz... it's simply fact. they throw it every damn time. they may not be as good as they used to be, but at least they're still entertaining.

 

[phanan]

i like how people pile on martz for this now

when the rams set a record with 3 500+ point seasons in a row there didnt seem to be much critisizing


and have you happened to check out the pass-run ratio for the superbowl champs last year? one of the highest in the league, same with philly last year, same with indy this year

you play to your strengths, and if throwing the ball is your strength then you do that

I don't think people criticize Martz for his tendency to always throw the ball as much as they do for some of the stupid time management mistakes he has made in the past.

 

[Hewson]

Headache, a couple of points:
1. Vikings +9.5: jump on it unless Moss' leg is gonna be an issue.

2. Strahan: 2 things here...1. His Chunky Soup campaign has taken a decisive backseat to Donovan McNabb and Mrs. "Team Mom" McNabb"...2. He's injured...notice the Giants were 5-2 before he got hurt, a sure lock for the playoffs, then when he goes down, the league tells Coughlin to throw in the towel and get Eleaf on the field, tossing a promising season away.

3. You said the Pats were "ripe for the picking". Are you in fact Mike Vanderjagt? (Or Vanderjerk as the Boston Herald's back page headline labelled him, followed by the following amusing names in Gerry Callahan's piece: Vanderjoke, Vandershank, Vanderjackass, Vanderdope, Vanderslob, Vanderschumck, and Vanderchump), cause thats one of his beautiful bulletin board fodder quotes.
Wonder if he was "all liquored up"?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

i am... my foot is huge.

if moss can't play, then the eagles might still win... but they ain't covering 9 1/2, and they sure as hell ain't getting to the over.

no moss, no TO... 13-10 eagles win... one TD and 2 FGs to one TD and one FG

 

[phanan]

I loved Tedy Bruschi's response when he was told what Vanderjagt said...

``You're asking me to comment on what a kicker said?'' asked Bruschi, laughing. ``It doesn't really concern me. OK?''

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

"bulletin board" material is vastly over-rated in a game such as this... if anyone really needs any outside motivation, then they're in trouble as it is. that goes for both teams.

 

[Hewson]

Here's my preliminary picks for this weekend:

Steelers 27, Jets 10
Falcons 31, Rams 23
Vikings 27, Iggles 24 If Moss plays and is effective, if not:
Eagles 20, Vikings 13
Patriots 34, Colts 21

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

i'll bite

-Steelers 21, Jets 17
-Rams 34, Falcons 21
-Healty Moss- Vikings 30, Eagles 13
-Hurt Moss- Eagles 13, Vikings 10
-Peat Moss- Eagles 2, Vikings 0
-No Blizzard- Colts 41, Pats 34
-Blizzard- Pats 17, Colts 14

 

[Hewson]

No blizzard...long range forecast is sunny with a high of about 31.

 

[U2Kitten]

Is there ANY chance of T.O. playing?

 

[phanan]

He's out. He may be back for the Super Bowl if the Eagles get that far.

 

[U2Kitten]

Then I might go with the Vikes!(IF Moss can run!)

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

if it's 31 and sunny, i'm deffinetly going with the colts... but once again, no money will be placed on that... wacky things happen up in that stadium there. wacky things.

 

[U2Kitten]

Another thing to consider is the officiating, a bad call here and there can throw an important game, any of them.

 

[stray dog]

i'll bite

-Steelers 21, Jets 17
-Rams 34, Falcons 21
-Healty Moss- Vikings 30, Eagles 13
-Hurt Moss- Eagles 13, Vikings 10
-Peat Moss- Eagles 2, Vikings 0
-No Blizzard- Colts 41, Pats 34
-Blizzard- Pats 17, Colts 14

Randy Peat? I didn't know he was still playing..

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Another thing to consider is the officiating, a bad call here and there can throw an important game, any of them.

no one or two plays ever make or break a game...

case in point... eric barton. he "cost" the jets the game with that stupid penalty...


... or not. the chargers still had to win the game, and they couldn't.

then... the 12 year old kicker cost the game for the chargers...



... or not. the jets were exhausted, and if marty "i choke for food" schottenheimer would have actually attempted to score a touchdown, they probably could have, and the chargers would be advancing.

 

[phanan]

to be honest, its freeny i worry about the most.

Well, according to reports today, they are saying that Mathis is most likely out for Sunday's game. If that's the case, the Pats' full attention will be on Freeney.

I thought the Pats' offense was going to have a big day already, but if Mathis doesn't play, I really expect it now.

 

[U2Kitten]

no one or two plays ever make or break a game...

I've seen it happen, especially with a series of phantom holding calls that take a team out of scoring range and change the momentum of the game.

Did you see the 1995-96 Colts-Steelers AFC Championship game?

I forget the names now but I have it on tape if I can find it. I wish I could make screen caps! These 2 calls changed the game:

A Steeler caught the ball with both feet on the white strip at the back of the end zone. It was ruled a touchdown, though even the announcers were horrified. There was no instant replay challenge that year (I think it had a hand in bringing it back)

Late in the game, with the Steelers behind, a reciever caught a long pass at the 2 though he clearly came down out of bounds- again even the announcers were appalled at the call. Sure enough the Steelers scored a touchdown that proved to be the game winner.

Both those plays were showed over and over and there was no doubt they were wrong. The game was of course in Pittsburgh. For years, every time I mentioned to someone I was a Colts fan the first thing they'd say was, 'oh, man, remember that Championship game, that was the worst bullshit officiating I've ever seen, you guys were totally robbed!' These people were not even Colts fans but it stuck out in their minds because it was so bad. It is legendary.

After all that in the end the Colts had one more chance with a Hail Mary. It landed on the stomach of Aaron Bailey and if he had touched it perhaps they'd have called a game winning touchdown. But he let it roll off! This leads people I know to refer to that as the 'Wonderwall' play, 'today was gonna be the day but they'll never throw it back to you...'

One other notable game- in the '75 Dallas-Minnesota Championship game, Drew Pearson blatantly pushed off on his run to the game winning touchdown. Vikings players and coaches on the bench said it was so bad when they saw him catch and run they weren't even concerned because they were so sure it would be called back! I also wonder how much of Dallas' '90's 'glory' might not have been there had officials called Michael Irvin for his many many pushoffs!

Bad calls CAN and do cost teams games, but the one thing that I never thought was fair was blaming the kicker for a miss in the last seconds. It's not all his fault, had the offense scored a touchdown he wouldn't have had to be called on, if the defense had stopped the other team once when they scored there would be no need for the kick, losing is a team effort just like winning. Yet the kicker bears the stigma for life.

 

[Hewson]

but the one thing that I never thought was fair was blaming the kicker for a miss in the last seconds. It's not all his fault, had the offense scored a touchdown he wouldn't have had to be called on, if the defense had stopped the other team once when they scored there would be no need for the kick, losing is a team effort just like winning. Yet the kicker bears the stigma for life.

What if that missed kick is a PAT?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

teams that blame the refs never win championships... maybe that's the colts problem.

no one or two plays/calls/etc. makes or breaks a game... period.

everyone thinks the pats haven't been as good as they seem to have been over the past few years because they "always get the breaks/calls." well... you make your own damn breaks.

you talk about how the kicker shouldn't be blamed because the offense could've scored more, or the defense could've held the other team from scoring? well what's the difference between a kicker missing a field goal and a ref making a bad call?

i remember watching the colt-steelers game you're talking about, but i don't remember the specific plays... all i remember is jim harbaugh vs. neil o'donnell, and i remember the hail mary... that's it. not being a fan of either team, i don't remember the details as well as you, so i'll use a more recent example instead...

177 plays were run durring the jets vs. chargers game. 177 plays, 11 drives for each team. let's say that the eric barton play was a bad call... it wasn't, it was a clear penalty, but for arguements sake let's say it was a bad call. jet fans would be up in arms saying that a ref cost them the game. but not so... the jets had 11 seperate drives where they could've scored, and 11 opportunities to stop the chargers. if the jets had performed better earlier in the 4th, the last play wouldn't have mattered. if the chargers hadn't waited until the 4th quarter to finally start playing to their ability, the last play wouldn't have mattered. when you have 177 different plays, to say that one play COST the game is simply not true. if the execution was crisper earlier in the game, the late bad call doesn't matter. if the execution and preparation in PRACTICE leading up to the game was crisper and cleaner, leading to crisper and cleaner play in the game, then the last bad call doesn't matter.

the only way that a bad call makes a difference in a game is if both teams play 100% perfect games, without making a single mistake... which is impossiable.

this is exactly why the Pats have been so succesful under mad genious bill. their game preparation is flawless. they are so confident in their abilities that they don't allow bad calls to effect their psyche.

look at the sacramento kings in basketball. they've had some great teams over the past few years, yet they've never been able to get to the nba finals. not once. it's not a coincidence that they complain about every damn call the refs make. they let a bad call effect them. that's why they're not a great team.

blaming a bad call or series of bad calls is simply an excuse fans and losing teams use. in reality, there are hundreds of other things that could have been done to effect the overall outcome of the game, making the bad call insignificant.

even in the example you yourself presented... if the colts score on that last play, the "bad calls" don't matter. this is why you never see the teams that win complaining about bad calls, even though bad calls are obviously made against them, as well as for them.

 

[DaveC]

Once again, Headache proves his genius, despite his Red Sox hatred.

 

[U2Kitten]

But one less 'bad call' and the winner of the game could be different. If the Steelers had gotten a field goal instead of a TD on that first bad call, and not moved the ball on the last TD drive (the questionable call was a very long pass, if it were incomplete their drive may have stopped right there, without even a FG) then the Colts would have won and Bailey's end zone blooper wouldn't have mattered. You can try as hard as you can, but when the officials screw you at every turn there's only so much you have time to overcome.