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Old 07-10-2002, 09:33 AM   #31
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I am not a vegetarian. I make meat stuff and it's good with me. It's just so much a part of everyday life, it's hard to remember that what I'm eating was an animal.

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Old 07-10-2002, 09:41 AM   #32
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Originally posted by Miss MacPhisto
I'm a veggie.
For me, its an animal rights thing. The way animals are forced to suffer is horrific. I think very few people could actually stomach meat again if they actually saw an animal slaughtered in person, or even in a video.
Also its due to health reasons. All sorts of crap is in meat, and it can be very bad for you. Cancer, heart disease, God knows what else meat plays a role in.
Plus some of it is very gross. Steak for example, all that blood....And some people eat very strange cuts of meat, like liver, hearts, brains, the head, eyes, etc!
Now, before I begin, this is not directed at miss mac by any means, this is just my justification for not being vegetarian, and some responses to some of the reasons as to why people are vegetarians in the first place... Remember this though: Im not trying to convert ANYONE either way, these are just my opinions. I will try not to say 'you should' or 'you shouldnt' or 'why would anyone ever', but if I do, I appologize. Again, Im not trying to harass or force my beliefs upon anyone, I could honestly care less what people eat, it has no influence on my dining habits.

Now then... Im not really as biased about vegetarianism as I initially alluded of course, and I agree that some animals can be treated quite brutally... but thats not always the case. I am by no means going to try and justify inflicting any pain/suffering when I say this, but if you look at it, cows for example, they are treated vastly better now than they were 70 years ago. There have been great advances in the fields of medicine, veteranarian medicine, and nearly all cattle are treated well in that regards - there is rarely animals ever going untreated and suffering slow and painful death due to some disease. On a similar note, lab rats are specifically grown, given life, to be used in experiments, that is what we allowed them to be created in captivity for. Normally they are a pest, but with scientific controls they have become a staple for drug testing and all that good stuff. Mind you I have an opinion about medical science going a little too far with research into disease fighting, but Ill not touch that. Anyways, back to cows... Cows, like lab rats, are born into a captive environment for the express perpose of human consumption. They know nothing of a life outside of hundreds of acres of farmland surrounded by fencing, they no nothing outside of sleeping in a stall. They are, however, granted protection from nature, they are also granted protection from any animals that would be able to attack and kill them - which in reality is nothing, since we as a species killed all those off or drove them back into the yet unconquered forests by the mountain ranges. Anyways... the point Im trying to get at, is that we serve them, they in turn serve us, we put tons of money and resource into feeding them, tons of money and resource into living quarters, medicine, to keep them in good health, we raise them for the specific perpose of being eaten, and then when everything is said and done, thats what happens.

Cows also have very thick hides, we use leather to prevent some major-ass road rash on motor cycles. You think if we can fly off a bike going 60km/h and not have our flesh torn off because the leather gets ground and abraised for us that theyre going to have a vastly painful reaction to an electric shock? ie cattle fences, cattle prods. The idea of those devices is to cause discomfort in order to maintain control of the animal, not to cause it pain, not to torture it. Certainly people can misuse those, people have a history of doing horrific things to animals, but we also have a history of doing horrific things to each other, some people are just malicious and sadistic and enjoy inflicting pain on others, thats always going to happen. I dont believe thats a reason to stop eating meat though, I am very much appreciative for the lives lost in order to maintain my own, animals, war heroes, people, animals, and things which are sacrificed in the name of upholding our quality of life, Im always very understanding and appreciative of that, and Im not about to give up meat simply because things arent as good for the animals as they could be. I believe that with science and continued advances in technology and the ideas of liberty, things will only improve for captive animals.

I dont know whether or not that perpose is ultimately justified, but you have to keep in mind, that if we were destined to be a herbivourous species, we would not have begun life as hunter/gatherer nomads. Meat has always been a staple to the human diet, and sure, we put illusions on ourselves that we are better than any and every other species because we have intelligence. In the biblical sense, God gave us control over all animals, granted us the right to eat certain meats but not others. If you consider our intelligence as our only edge though, without our tools, our intelligence, we are very frail, very weak. A bull could easily maim and kill a person, a bear, a lion, even a horse could kick someone hard enough to endanger their life. The animal rights movement is certainly justified, but there are some things that go too far, and some things that dont go far enough. Its too little too late in many cases, with endangered species and stuff, we started the road to equality far too late to save some of them. But to say 'we shouldnt milk cows because it hurts them' or whatever that stupidass argument is, you have to remember that our dairy cows are required to be milked regularly to stay healthy, otherwise they can get infections and other problems, have their udders swell up like balloons, suffer an even more painful death.

Most rediculous thing Ive heard recently is 'humans should not eat honey because it is harvested from oppressed bees'... like honestly... if you want to put every single peice of life on the planet on an equal playing ground with us, we're going to be the ones going extinct, because we're going to get mauled, gored, trampled, poisoned, and otherwise brutalized. There is no way that people are ever going to give up their power, we have power over animals, power over each other, and when in a position of power, a position of comfort, people will never likely give that up. Thats not to say that its a lost cause, there is still animal abuse that goes on, still senseless killing of animals for no real perpose. Cows, rats, they have a perpose. Someone goes out into the bush and butchers an animal just for sheer sport, doesnt use the meat, doesnt use it for any perpose other than to say 'hey maw, i dun gone and killed it guuud', thats the sort of thing that should be stopped.

As for cancer... its hard to justify that certain things cause cancer... if you look at the statistics, there are also lots of plants and plant derived chemicals that cause cancer too - virtually anything in excess can cause cancer. Thats hardly a valid argument to stop eating meat altogether. It should certainly be a driving force to start eating more healthily, thats for sure, but if you want an argument thrown back at you, science has proven that vegetarianism does not extend lifespan, but it does cause people to look older than they truly are. Just some food for thought.

Finally, killing of a cow. I imagine itd be the same as having to clean a fish, except more blood since its a vastly larger animal. And sure, cutting anything to peices and deboning it is going to be gory, I dont know if you could expect otherwise. Im not a fan of carnage, not at all... but I feel its necessary, and its not perposeless... There are countless millions of cattle, and sure, we could stop eating them, and then we'd waste our money letting them loose and roam free, let them die natures way, and in the process severely cripple the rural community and the global economy which has always relied on farming and food products. There is no way there can ever be an instant seperation from any of our commodities without dire consequences. Sure, some people can start now and hope the trend catches on, hits home, and turns into the status quo, but that will take time, and an advancement in knowledge and rights. I hope that a happy median can be found at some point in the future, but Ive enjoyed meat all my life and am not simply going to give up its taste... Sure, Im stubborn... but whatever...

Finally (again) theres the justification that meat tastes bad... all I have to say to that is, everything is an acquired taste, some things you like, some you dont. I, for example, didnt like olives in the past, and yet now I do, Ive always loved mushrooms, and other people still refuse to eat it because its gross. Some people like broccoli, others dont, some like pate, others find it repulsive to even consider eating goose liver, some people like squid, others find it too rubbery or unappealing to eat. Its all a matter of personal tastes, and the ultimate message I want to get across is that regardless of anyones choices, tastes, they are just as valid as anyone elses, and deserving of respect. </existentialist based conclusion>

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Old 07-10-2002, 10:34 AM   #33
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Yep.. all my life. I ate meat once, accidentally, when I was 3 but I haven't eaten it since. Animal rights, health, etc. are my reasons.
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Old 07-10-2002, 07:46 PM   #34
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I am a vegetarian and have been for almost all of my life- I grew up with just my Mum and Dad ( I have no siblings ) and my Mum is a vegan so in my household there was never really much meat about the place and I can remember as a kid on the odd occasions my Mum would cook a roast lamb or soemthing- I would love all the veggies and jut hate the taste of the meat and I still like that I absolutely can not stand the taste of meat and I am now even getting that festidious that I dont drink full cream milk as I can taste that 'animal' taste and when I say order some hot chips from a shop I will ask what kind of oil they use for deep frying as I can taste that animal taste on the chips if they use a meat based oil- silly I know, but the taste, especially of beef or lamb just makes my physically want to be sick.......and it has only been in later times that I have come to think of the ethical treatment of animals too- I have nothing against people who eat meat but I would love to think that they would eat something that is organic and has been able to live a bit of a life- I belive that an animals whole role in life should not be just so that we can eat them- like just think about the poor old battery hens, I cant stand the taste of egg, but if I was an egg person I would certainly only eat free range eggs......anyway to not eat meat is cool, well for me I could never imagine myself eating meat, it just grosses me out too much and I think that I have a great appreciation in food- just because you dont eat meat does not mean that you are doomed to a life of lettuce and celery sticks, I love my food and think I eat a lot better than most, probably stale and boring 'meat and three veg' people, but anyway just my two cents
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Old 07-10-2002, 09:37 PM   #35
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talk about boring... my mom's cooking consists of 3 or 4 variations of the same meal, plus a spaghetti dinner... and occassionally we'll be lucky and she'll decide to make something quick, like sloppy joes or tacos or something that requires little work... but omg, its getting to the point where Im starting to despise chicken, rice, and broccoli, just because 4 outta 5 days theres at least one of those on the plate, usually 2... I need variety else I go crazy.

sure, I could cook a meal myself, but shes always so insistant that she cook dinner and I dont know... but bah... whats hilarious is she always says well nobody likes (food product) and we all look at her and say waht on earth are you talking about? the most recent of these was pancakes... after not having pancakes for about a year, my brother had asked why we never have them anymore, to which my mother replied because noone in the house likes them, which resulted in befuddled looks all around. There was something else that was mildly humourous... but Im too tired to remember what it was... ... so yeah... maybe Ill tell some more anecdotes later... e

heh, I have a good one about camping... well two actually... one about burnt oatmeal, and one about extra spicy beef stroganof... lol... theres also a lewd joke about a child in the kitchen stroganof (stroking off) but I think thats best saved for ... well never... Im off to bed.
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Old 07-11-2002, 01:22 AM   #36
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no, but i very seldom eat meat. i don't like red meat, and chicken's ok, but i'm not big on the meat thing....i love a good veggie sub or sandwich....come to think of it, i haven't had any meat in at least 2 days...

if you haven't read the article in time , read's very interesting....
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Old 07-11-2002, 02:40 AM   #37
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unforgettableFOXfire, you may want to add that bees manufacture much more honey than they actually need.

I'm not sure if it's just the Kiwi-lifestyle influence but of late I haven't bothered eating meat. Plus the awareness of the suffering of battery chickens has put me off it.

I find vegetarians -- those against the murder of animals -- who eat tofu that resembles meat a curious contradiction.

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Old 07-11-2002, 03:00 AM   #38
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I love meat. I really do. But, my sister is avegitarian and my cousin is a vegan, and we always make food that fits their dietary needs. I love meat, but I don't eat it all the time.
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Old 07-11-2002, 07:46 AM   #39
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I was a lacto-ovo-icthyo(?) vegetarian (too many exceptions, I know) for about a year, until I saw one, chunky Quarter Pounder sitting on the dining table. That did it.
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Old 07-11-2002, 09:41 AM   #40
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Originally posted by famous rungi
unforgettableFOXfire, you may want to add that bees manufacture much more honey than they actually need.
Yes, but this IS the latest argument being made by hardcore vegans. Bees are being exploited and oppressed, their honey stolen. Its sad that Im honestly not even making it up.
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Old 07-12-2002, 07:55 AM   #41
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I tried for about a year to give up all animal food products, but couldn't do without chicken. Now i eat chicken, turkey and some fish. Just no red meat.
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Old 07-12-2002, 09:36 PM   #42
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I am not a vegetarian, though I once posted a thread about the conflicts of eating meat AND being a U2 fan at the same time.

I eat beef, pork, venison, crab, shrimp, tuna, crawfish, chicken and lamb.

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Old 07-13-2002, 02:16 PM   #43
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I've been a vegetarian for well over a year now and I love it! I have lots of reasons, but it started out that I was suffering from irritable bowel syndrome and started keeping track of what foods were aggravating my stomach. Then I started doing yoga and vegetarianism sort of popped up as something to try for health reasons. It was lent, so I wasn't eating meat on Fridays anyway...I gave it a try and now I'm very glad that I did.

I'm glad that vegetarianism seems to be becoming more mainstream in America. I'm lucky that most people I know respect my decision. At family dinners, they cook something "special" for me instead. Likewise, I let others eat what they want. My husband still eats meat, but we've also had a good time trying out vegetarian recipes together. I think we're both healthier for it.

All things in moderation is my motto. And I'm not a food nazi about it either. If there's nothing meatless on the menu at a restaurant, I make do and maybe order seafood. The other day I accidentally bought cheese ravioli in meat sauce but didn't realize it until I opened it. No big whoop...I ate it anyway! Just do what feels right for you...

Enough blabbing. Peace!
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Old 07-13-2002, 05:04 PM   #44
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Originally posted by Miss MacPhisto

....And some people eat very strange cuts of meat, like liver, hearts, brains, the head, eyes, etc!
yeah, some people get carried away. In some countries they don't spare any part of the animal. They take the tongue, the eyes, the.... I'm not going to go there, but you know where...pretty unhealthy.

other than that I'm an omni.
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Old 07-14-2002, 02:03 PM   #45
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I've been vegetarian for years, probably eight or nine years I guess. My reasons are that I hate the mistreatment of animals which occurs in too many farms and slaughterhouses. I'm not trying to convince anyone else to become vegetarian so I won't elaborate on that, but for me personally I could never eat meat again having seen the barbaric treatment of living creatures which occurs in that industry

Is anyone here vegan? Or ever tried eating a vegan diet for a length of time? I'd like to hear about anyone's experiences?

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