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Old 10-30-2005, 08:50 PM   #121
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Originally posted by Zootlesque
Zero Dude that was pretty heavy!
Thanks, but I doubt anyone will take much notice.

I mean we can all sit on our arses and spew pseudo intellectual bullshit all day, but that doesn't detract from there being basic truths even in matters as trivial a this.

Said basic truth being that all of our personal truths differ.

I could just say something extremely contentious as is the norm here i.e. I am a better lyricist than Thom Yorke, who would agree with me on that, eh?
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Old 10-30-2005, 08:51 PM   #122
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I mean we can all sit on our arses and spew pseudo intellectual bullshit all day, but that doesn't detract from there being basic truths even in matters as trivial a this.
Said basic truth being that all of our personal truths differ.
Very true. Sometimes I wonder why we even argue about this stuff!
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Old 10-30-2005, 08:53 PM   #123
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Human nature.
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Old 10-30-2005, 09:01 PM   #124
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Originally posted by Zoomerang96
oh is that right? well how come i don't remember you ever making any of the interference power rankings?

hmm?
Sorry, I don't mean to usurp your role as the power ranking maestro, but I enjoy fighting the power. You current U2 naysayers are definately the power in this forum.

I think I listened to too much Public Enemy, back in the day. A decade later, their spirit and focused force still reverberates through my mind. I swear, I think they had the most focused energy of all time in music.

I really need to settle down, I guess---lol. Maybe, that's why I swear by the virtues of current U2's work. They now REALLY understand the value of taking stock in what's needed to move forward in today's world. They are leading the cause in this instance. You can bet the house that the aging bands of the next decade will follow this artistic lead.
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Old 10-30-2005, 09:29 PM   #125
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Very true. Sometimes I wonder why we even argue about this stuff!
I can only tell you why I argue about this stuff and I'm sure you've read where I've said this before. It's because I believe there's a difference between making noise and bringing the noise. It's easy to make noise by spouting braindead labels like 'too safe', 'money hungry', 'nostalgic', etc. without really examining the issue. These internet forums kind of foster the noisemakers in a sense. Every once in a while I like to up the ante and encourage examination. Especially, on the issues where I think the noisemakers are off base.

It's all good, though. Just give me what I want and no one gets hurt. Hmm, a little glimpse into the dark side there, I'd say.


As for ZeroDude pointing out the basic truth of subjectivity, I'm down with that to a point. I understand that at the end of the day people have their takes. I don't try to change minds. I just try to make my case. In this instance, I think a strong case can be made for current U2 being as artistically and creatively driven as ever. People can do with that case what they will.

The world is driven by subjective decision making (war with Iraq, who to hire/fire). I'd say it's a real good idea for people to learn how to make a case (bring the noise). I'm only hear to help. That's why I've taken on the role of teacher, ask so many questions and grade responses in this thread.
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Old 10-30-2005, 09:33 PM   #126
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layton you were finally making some good sense until you brought up the bit about playing the role of a teacher and grading responses.

only i could do something so ridiculous and get away with it.
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Old 10-30-2005, 09:37 PM   #127
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The Bomb interests me.... not at all really. Personal tastes and all that, but I loved U2 for their small songs as much or more than their big songs. I loved U2 for Bono's lyrics, for putting in the CD for the first time and hearing something musically new and interesting with each track. I honestly feel numb all the way through The Bomb and I can't change that. It's cold. It's so calculatingly commercial. It's boring. It's predictable. It's lame in parts and just dull in others. Bono was saying in it's hype that it was like "their first album". I agree. It sounds almost, musically, immature. Not necessarily in a negative way, it just sounds so juniour to U2's previous efforts. Songs like Miracle Drug and Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own - U2's bread and butter territory - I can't believe that U2 make this nearly 20 years after songs like Bad? It's like Sometimes should have been written 20 years ago, and as they grow older and get better and better they come to Bad, but it's the reverse and everyone celebrates that. I look at U2 setlists and can't fathom why All Because of You is played there along with The Fly. Are they two different bands?

Believe it or not, I'm not caught up in these arguments about 80's vs 90's vs 00's. I don't believe in that, and you'll notice through any of my arguments I'm trying to defuse the certain idiots in here who keep narrowing arguments into "Well I'd expect that from a 90's fan". Fucking moronic. All I'm talking about is the quality. "Songs! Songs! Songs!" they shout. "It's all about great songs! Not experimentation!" Wait! When did I say it was about experimentation? Never! Songs are fine! Songs are great! I love songs! But these are so dry, so weak. Even the ones that have great tunes have been produced beyond any feeling, and more often then not have been almost fucked beyond repair by Bono's complete disinterest in writing decent lyrics anymore.

I'm sorry, I can't get past the fact that the quality has dropped so far. I hold U2 to a ridiculously high standard, simply because they've always reached that standard. To me, everything they touched was gold. I only love U2's experimentation because I thought it was remarkable that every corner they turned, turned to a winner. They are ridiculously talented. I would have no beef with this whole "back to the roots/4 guys in a room" whatever if (a) they actually had roots and (b) it was of a high standard. I think "U2" doesn't work when they try to calculate it too far, and I think some people would suggest that's an argument against Pop as well.

Sorry, The Bomb is a flat out dud. By any other band, a raging, storming success of a perfect pop album, but from U2, it's just a real shame that they'd stoop so low.

I just cannot see how people hold songs like Vertigo and City of Blinding Lights or Crumbs - as good as they are in relation to what they are - up against anything off any of the 80s or 90s albums. Anything. Can't believe that you could have your iTunes on random and have a song like Running to Stand Still play, then have it flick to Yahweh and think "Wow. Still got it."I think you've just dropped off about 400% quality right there.
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Old 10-30-2005, 09:38 PM   #128
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only i could do something so ridiculous and get away with it.
maybe because people know you're insane in the first place.
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Old 10-30-2005, 09:40 PM   #129
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Originally posted by Zoomerang96
layton you were finally making some good sense until you brought up the bit about playing the role of a teacher and grading responses.

only i could do something so ridiculous and get away with it.
What can I say? I prone to hubris, I guess---lol.
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Old 10-30-2005, 09:43 PM   #130
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Couldn't agree more, Earnie Shavers. and by the way, if this is your first night, you HAVE to fight.
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Old 10-30-2005, 09:48 PM   #131
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Originally posted by Zootlesque


maybe because people know you're insane in the first place.
No it's quite possibly internet ego.

Now I'm waiting to be scorned and/ or ignored completely.
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Old 10-30-2005, 09:49 PM   #132
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Originally posted by Earnie Shavers
Songs like Miracle Drug and Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own - U2's bread and butter territory - I can't believe that U2 make this nearly 20 years after songs like Bad? It's like Sometimes should have been written 20 years ago, and as they grow older and get better and better they come to Bad, but it's the reverse and everyone celebrates that. I look at U2 setlists and can't fathom why All Because of You is played there along with The Fly. Are they two different bands?
Exactly! They're not even in the same league!!! Just take a look at the lyrics... esp. Sometimes! Geez!


Quote:
Originally posted by Earnie Shavers

Believe it or not, I'm not caught up in these arguments about 80's vs 90's vs 00's. I don't believe in that, and you'll notice through any of my arguments I'm trying to defuse the certain idiots in here who keep narrowing arguments into "Well I'd expect that from a 90's fan". Fucking moronic. All I'm talking about is the quality. "Songs! Songs! Songs!" they shout. "It's all about great songs! Not experimentation!" Wait! When did I say it was about experimentation? Never! Songs are fine! Songs are great! I love songs! But these are so dry, so weak.
You hit the nail on the fucking head right there! Why do people assume that it's only the 90s fans that are complaining??? Agreed that the 90s material is my favorite but right now I'm listening to the song, The Unforgettable Fire... and it's so fucking good, so sexy, so much more unique, original and meaningful to me than anything on ATYCLB or HTDAAB. As I type this... Promenade just started. What a gorgeous song... these lyrics...my God!... nothing like this can be found on the last 2 albums!
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Old 10-30-2005, 09:59 PM   #133
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if this is your first night, you HAVE to fight.
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Old 10-30-2005, 10:00 PM   #134
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The Unforgettable Fire is such a kick arse song in so many ways, somehow incredibly powerful but delicate at the same time. Still a mind fuck of a sound even in 2005. It's amazing.

And people dare name City of Blinding Lights as coming from the same place? Why? Explain that to me because I have no idea how that is possible.
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Old 10-30-2005, 10:01 PM   #135
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Originally posted by Earnie Shavers
Can't believe that you could have your iTunes on random and have a song like Running to Stand Still play, then have it flick to Yahweh and think "Wow. Still got it."I think you've just dropped off about 400% quality right there.
Great response. Although, I disagree with 80% of what you said you didn't resort to one braindead label is telling us why you think HTDAAB is weak.

I'll just tell you why I'd play Yahweh next to RTSS. It's because I think Yahweh has a great musical setting. It's full of horizon like imagery. It's as if the band is playing from some uncharted territory beyond the glow of a sunrise/sunset. It's truly one of U2's greatest surrendering moments. The all encompassing open-heartedness is really a revelation. One could argue that to regain purity in one's art this far into a career is stunning. HTDAAB is the musical equivalent of open-heart surgery, IMO.
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