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Old 10-29-2005, 09:10 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy

But U2 aren't a pop band, so they should quit trying to be.
Well put.


gareth, financeguy was kidding about the Zooropa comment. He better be otherwise there will be hell to pay!
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Old 10-29-2005, 10:32 PM   #77
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Originally posted by financeguy



I agree. I think that U2 THINK they know how to make pop music, but really, they don't. Apart from, I guess 'The Sweetest Thing'. That was a very decent pure pop single.

ABBA in their heyday, Wham in theirs, New Order, the Pet Shop Boys to this day, fuck it even, dare I say it, Justin Timberlake and Britney- THESE are the people that know how to make GOOD pop music. U2 should leave it to them.

Some posters on here think that because a lot of current CHART pop stuff is trite and crap, all pop music is the same, but the Monkee's were pop. The Beach Boys were pop. Early Beatles were pop. Blondie was pop. The Supremes were pop.

But U2 aren't a pop band, so they should quit trying to be.
Pop ideas can be a creative means to an artistic end, just as more adventurous ideas can be a creative means to an artistic end.

Can somebody tell me why they think U2 are using pop ideas as their preferred creative means in recent years without resorting to braindead labels like 'money hungry', 'sales minded', 'playing it safe' or 'biggest band aspirations'?

I expect the noisemakers to have this question at my desk by this time tomorrow. At which, I will grade your response. So, bring the noise, folks.
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Old 10-30-2005, 02:48 AM   #78
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To all the friendly replies, can I just say I still post here, simply because I can. Sucks, yeah? And also because B&C is a forum that deals with music other than U2, not surprisingly.

I stand by every word I posted. I don't expect agreement, and also can I just take this opportunity to let you know I'm actually Jick, guys.

Well, ok, maybe I'm not actually Jick, but the rest is true.

Now that the 'usual suspects' have got our distaste for circa-2005 U2 (a crime on a par with 'unamerican activities') out of our systems, let the worship resume.

Financeguy, I'll see you at Xeidon, where bloodshed will no doubt ensue.
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Old 10-30-2005, 03:11 AM   #79
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Originally posted by Chizip


Did you see the making of the Joshua Tree DVD? When they are talking about With or Without You Bono makes the point that there was nothing out there on the radio that sounded anything like that. He said the only reason it sounds "normal" is because we've heard it so many times. So obviously at the time they were not worried about writing radio hits, they were wanting to write great songs and then promote them and if they became radio hits then even better. I think we ATYCLB they decided to write more "listener friendly" songs from the get go.

And come on, can you name me another U2 album that has more radio friendly, boy bandish, cheesy lyrics?

BD - It's a Beautiful Day don't let it get away!
Stuck - I'm not afraid of anything in this world, but Im stuck in a moment I cant get out of!
Elevation - A mole's diggin in a hole!
Walk On - I know it aches and your heart it breaks!
In a Little While - Slow down my beating heart!
Wild Honey - Im a monkey swinging through the trees!
Peace on Earth -
Grace - it's the name of a girl and also a though that can chage the world!
Well exactly, we've heard it so many times because it IS a radio song. Looking at Bono's comment on JT tour, I'd say they were very much interested in being on the charts - and obviously getting airplay helps. (remember who he thanked when they got the Grammy for JT?)

There aren't really that many U2 albums that aren't accessible anyway. Of course, a part of "competing with pop bands" is, well, writing pop music. Pop in the best meaning of the word - too many people think "pop" only means boy bands, Britney and the like. It also means stuff like Beatles - talk about cheesy lyrics, Beach Boys, ABBA etc...

Yeah, I can totally see boy bands writing about mortality, a suicide, family and faith.

baby baby baby
baby baby baby
baby baby baby
light my way.

boom cha!

miami, my mammy! (rest of the song too)

some days are better than others. (again, pretty much the whole song)

boys go to school and girls, they make children

in a dry and waterless place

(did I ask too much) more than alot?

empty as a vacant lot

cops colleting for the cons, stuff of country songs

first verse of Playboy Mansion

don't this, don't that routine in Numb

I need your love x infinity in Hawkmoon 269

Poetry, isn't it?
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Old 10-30-2005, 07:45 AM   #80
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give u2 a break !! they are old people now so let them rest!! have you see what bono looks like now, not to mention his horse like voice!!
did the age brick hit him on the head or what
lol
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Old 10-30-2005, 08:28 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by Layton
Can somebody tell me why they think U2 are using pop ideas as their preferred creative means in recent years without resorting to braindead labels like 'money hungry', 'sales minded', 'playing it safe' or 'biggest band aspirations'?
One only needs to look at the lead-in promotions and interviews featuring Bono for the past two albums, where he attempts to explain the band's intent to fashion singles and pop tunes in the vein of The Beatles (for All That You Can't Leave Behind) and The Who (for How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb).

The creative direction that the band took for this decade appears to be the pursuit of standalone songs as an overarching album idea, instead of their previous recording style of working within a developing subject. Of course, connections and concepts can be found within these albums, but it seems that U2's current process of fast lyric generation (stream of consciousness) and inconsistent process (too many producers) suggests that their concern for creating whole albums has been deprioritized for Larry's goal of number one singles.



Even though negative criticisms often take the guise of money-grubbing and selling out on the surface... the root of contention is complacency. I can think of countless arguments on both sides of the status quo debate, but justifying either perspective does not improve the quality or experience of the music... it merely perpetuates the rift between stubborn conservative fans that know everything and stubborn progressive fans that know everything.
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Old 10-30-2005, 11:07 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by Antilarry
Financeguy, I'll see you at Xeidon, where bloodshed will no doubt ensue.
I'm going to kill you with an axe, and then I'm going to......you know the rest.
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Old 10-30-2005, 11:13 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2girl


Well exactly, we've heard it so many times because it IS a radio song. Looking at Bono's comment on JT tour, I'd say they were very much interested in being on the charts - and obviously getting airplay helps. (remember who he thanked when they got the Grammy for JT?)

There aren't really that many U2 albums that aren't accessible anyway. Of course, a part of "competing with pop bands" is, well, writing pop music. Pop in the best meaning of the word - too many people think "pop" only means boy bands, Britney and the like. It also means stuff like Beatles - talk about cheesy lyrics, Beach Boys, ABBA etc...

Yeah, I can totally see boy bands writing about mortality, a suicide, family and faith.

baby baby baby
baby baby baby
baby baby baby
light my way.

boom cha!

miami, my mammy! (rest of the song too)

some days are better than others. (again, pretty much the whole song)

boys go to school and girls, they make children

in a dry and waterless place

(did I ask too much) more than alot?

empty as a vacant lot

cops colleting for the cons, stuff of country songs

first verse of Playboy Mansion

don't this, don't that routine in Numb

I need your love x infinity in Hawkmoon 269

Poetry, isn't it?
it amazes me how little you truly understand.

it amazes me even more why i bother to reply to posts like this.

you don't even try, do you?
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Old 10-30-2005, 11:14 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by cujo
it merely perpetuates the rift between stubborn conservative fans that know everything and stubborn progressive fans that know everything.
So are you standing on the fence or what?

But seriously, well written post!
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Old 10-30-2005, 11:17 AM   #85
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yes, very well written indeed.
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Old 10-30-2005, 11:37 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by cujo

The creative direction that the band took for this decade appears to be the pursuit of standalone songs as an overarching album idea, instead of their previous recording style of working within a developing subject. Of course, connections and concepts can be found within these albums, but it seems that U2's current process of fast lyric generation (stream of consciousness) and inconsistent process (too many producers) suggests that their concern for creating whole albums has been deprioritized for Larry's goal of number one singles.

Even though negative criticisms often take the guise of money-grubbing and selling out on the surface... the root of contention is complacency.
Good try at answering the question. Except that your depriortization conclusion is rooted in the braindead place I previously decried. Please refrain from the usage of such cliches (number one singles) in future responses, unless you can give me a compelling reason WHY they'd want to be heard in a large scale way. Hint: there IS a compelling reason. I won't give it away, though.

On a more positive note, your mentioning of the standalone songs as their overarching album idea is great. I wish you wouldn't have stopped there, though. You were onto something interesting.

My next questions to you would be; Why has U2 chosen this route? What is it about pop/song ideas like melodies,hooks and other easy-to-digest things that they find so creatively compelling, these days?

Before we all come to the conclusion that U2 are being complacent these days, let's all take a look at what easy-to-digest musical ideas might actually mean. Who knows, there might be a strong creative force driving them. Certainly, if that were the case we could disregard the complacency claim and just focus in on the execution part of the equation. Class dismissed!!
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Old 10-30-2005, 12:34 PM   #87
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Originally posted by Layton
Good try at answering the question. Except that your depriortization conclusion is rooted in the braindead place I previously decried. Please refrain from the usage of such cliches (number one singles) in future responses...
Could you please tell Larry that...

Quote:
---BBC---
"The challenge is to be bigger and bolder and better - to make records the whole world will listen to," Bono recently said.

Drummer Larry Mullen Jr echoed those sentiments: "We're very competitive - we want to be on the radio, have big singles. We don't want to be thought of as a veteran band."


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Old 10-30-2005, 01:05 PM   #88
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Adam wanted hits (he specifically said he felt they should have more hits to bring in more new fans this time, as opposed to just BD in 2000). AFAIK the only comment on Bomb Larry made when he heard it in 2003 was "it isn't good enough." Anyway, not like U2 never wanted to be big before and Bono felt that "bastards were right".

So you may wanna pass the blame on everyone in the band, considering they make the choices together. After all, "this is the first album we made that everyone in the band likes" - Bono
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Old 10-30-2005, 01:10 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by cujo


Could you please tell Larry that...

[/i]

I still have high hopes for you, but this is not the way to go. Why do they want to make records the whold world will listen to? What is their creatively compelling reason to do so? Just quoting their aspirations to make big songs doesn't dismiss the art of those songs. Like I said before, think about what easy to digest ideas might be used for as a creative tool. Also, think about U2's most longstanding philosophy.

Right now, I just want to focus in on this notion of complacency. It's an interesting one that I think can be disproved. One might argue that Larry's veteran band quote might disprove complacency alone because they're attempting to fight ageism in Rock by going after the charts. I won't take that easy out because I like bigger challenges. Since most around here think that ATYCLB and HTDAAB are creatively bankrupt, I'll take on that challenge instead.
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Old 10-30-2005, 01:20 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by Layton
One might argue that Larry's veteran band quote might disprove complacency alone because they're attempting to fight ageism in Rock by going after the charts.
That's not the easy way out, it's a perfect point, not mentioned here before.
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