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Old 11-06-2003, 02:32 AM   #211
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Well griffey, I gotta hand it to you. I thought you would actually say something new, possibly elaborate on earlier points. But you just keep on surprisingly me to new and disappointing levels... (that's not a personal attack as you so often misinterpret).

I'll try to make this short:

1. elite teams: perform consistently by winning playoff series. Yes. But do you consider Washington or Pittsburgh elite? A few years back they won a few series, but never really advanced past the first few rounds. This has been Ottawa's tradition, prior to last year, and until they show improvement and consistency in the playoffs they will still be that bubble team. By default, Vancouver should be lumped in the same group. It's not to their detriment. Does it matter if they're elite? No. Do you have to be elite to win a cup? Apparently not, because by your standards New Jersey isn't even elite.

2. You said the trap was boring... yet then, followed to say, well Vancouver uses it sometimes, but not very well, and it's not boring cause it's Vancouver:

:hotpicsofbertuzzi:

Granted the Pleba argument is recognized, yet discredited immediately.



So, I don't think Ottawa and Vancouver are elite teams. Do they have the potential? Yes.

Were there holes in my previous "arguments"? Of course. I like to be concise, and one-line statements seem to set you off well and good for hours.

It is mildly entertaining to see you fester in your subjectivity.

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Old 11-06-2003, 03:36 AM   #212
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And it's mildly entertaining to see you fester in your condescension.

I think we simply disagree on the definition of the term "elite", which is fine. I think I'll stick to agreeing with Steve Yzerman, though.

I do have to say one thing, however: I did not say Vancouver's version of the trap isn't boring "cause it is Vancouver". What I said was Vancouver isn't boring because it does not *rely* on the trap to win - and moreover, uses the attack model (ie, defensemen joining the rush, two forecheckers, etc, etc) to dictate play. See the difference between the words you put in my mouth and my actual statement? You're a smart guy, Cuj. I'd think you can make the distinction. Anyway, Vancouver's model is more an active system rather than a passive. That's why they're more exciting. It has nothing to do with getting away from the criticism of the trap simply because they're Vancouver. It's not simply the trap which dulls the game. It's the constant use of it to win games (ie, relying on it, and only it). Teams like NJ constantly rely on it to win. Sure, let's call them elite. But they're an elite team that is harming the sport. Not something most people want in an elite team, is it?
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Old 11-06-2003, 04:00 AM   #213
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I only put words in your mouth so you can validate them with regurgitation.



The trap is boring. I hate it. But it works. Until a Colorado or superteam wins by scoring and offense, the trend of the league will continually be to roll 4 lines emphasizing zone control. In the current context, teams which exploit the most successful system with the most proficiency will be deemed elite. Conversely, those teams that exhibit minimal success with an against the grain approach are not definably elite... and only in vain are adding excitement or systemic innovation. When these teams do predominate, we'll have something to discuss. I hope for our sake (and insanity) that Vancouver continues ascendence. But we'll just have to wait and see.


PS- Condescending eh? Methinks you're just as guilty ma sere.

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Old 11-06-2003, 04:17 AM   #214
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pinball Wizard

PS- Condescending eh? Methinks you're just as guilty ma sere.

Ah, let me explain. What I mean by "condescension" arrises from the negative personal tone and statements. I rarely bring the other person into discussion (I try not to, unless we're both ribbing each other for fun), but I've noticed you do this at times in a sort of patronizing way when addressing me and my posts. I don't mind it if it's in fun, but sometimes I get the feeling it's not just in fun, due to the blatant negative personal statements you introduce. Maybe I'm completely off base? Probably. I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time.
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Old 11-06-2003, 04:26 AM   #215
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It is subversive. Intentional sometimes.

You do tend to exasperate. Oh well, just makes you a good fan. Can't take that away from you.

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Old 11-06-2003, 04:35 AM   #216
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I will try not be be so exasperating. I guess I don't realize how much I get under people's skin, though I also have to admit it is intentional sometimes. I only do it to people who I think deserve it - such as the condescending types.
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Old 11-06-2003, 04:39 AM   #217
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:bitchslap:

*a preview of things to come... next week.

I will destroy you politely.

~Last-word monger.

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Old 11-06-2003, 05:09 AM   #218
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Sorry, but before I go to bed, I have to post this one thing I just noticed... Vancouver has the top 5 plus/minus players in the NHL! Not only that, but their top 3 forwards and top 3 defenseman are in the top 9 for plus/minus. Sorry, I don't mean to brag (really), but I just thought it was a pretty amazing stat. Here's the link:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/stats/by...nce=NHL&sort=3
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Old 11-06-2003, 09:59 AM   #219
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Now if the Islanders continue playing well, and end up winning the stanley cup... hypotheticly... we're gonna get a stanley cup parade down hempstead turnpike. such is life rooting for one of the second class teams in the new york area at least it's not as bad as the devil's... their stanley cup parade was around the meadowlands parking lot the rangers win and they get a ticker tape parade down the canyon of heroes to city hall in downtown manhattan... the islanders and devils win, and it's 5 circles around a parking lot
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Old 11-06-2003, 01:50 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
Now if the Islanders continue playing well, and end up winning the stanley cup... hypotheticly... we're gonna get a stanley cup parade down hempstead turnpike. such is life rooting for one of the second class teams in the new york area at least it's not as bad as the devil's... their stanley cup parade was around the meadowlands parking lot the rangers win and they get a ticker tape parade down the canyon of heroes to city hall in downtown manhattan... the islanders and devils win, and it's 5 circles around a parking lot
I thought they (Devils and/or Islanders) would parade in a local mall or something.
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Old 11-06-2003, 02:25 PM   #221
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
Now if the Islanders continue playing well, and end up winning the stanley cup... hypotheticly... we're gonna get a stanley cup parade down hempstead turnpike. such is life rooting for one of the second class teams in the new york area at least it's not as bad as the devil's... their stanley cup parade was around the meadowlands parking lot the rangers win and they get a ticker tape parade down the canyon of heroes to city hall in downtown manhattan... the islanders and devils win, and it's 5 circles around a parking lot
That's way too funny! A parking lot, hey? Well, should the Canucks ever win the Cup, they would have an amazing parade, starting down at BC Place, all the way up Robson Street (possibly Georgia, since it's bigger), and into Stanley Park. This of course, would be totally appropriate - it would be the great homecoming for Lord Stanley's great mug. They would "park" the Stanley Cup in Stanley Park. Here's a couple pics of Stanley Park. Ah, one can only dream...



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Old 11-06-2003, 06:19 PM   #222
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So, Chiz... big game tonight, hey? The Blues are on a role at home, and the Canucks will be playing for the 2nd time in as many nights on the road. Should be a tough game for them. Care to make a wager of some sort?
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Old 11-06-2003, 07:24 PM   #223
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the blues arent that good to begin with and we have half of our lineup out with injury, so im not expecting much tonight

if we win id be surprised, hopefully we'll play the trap system to perfection to bring vancouver down to our level in order to pull out a victory
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Old 11-06-2003, 07:42 PM   #224
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But, Chiz, the Blues are 2nd in the West, aren't they? Plus they're getting Demitra back tonight! Not to mention a couple other players, too. Do you have no faith in your team?
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Old 11-06-2003, 07:56 PM   #225
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the blues dont have much scoring depth in the first place

but now with bogunieki, cajanek, and mellanby out it really hurts

i mean weight is centering dallas drake and mark rycroft on the second line, not good

and then our top defensive pair of jackman and macinnis are gone

we are just getting bryce salvador back so he will be rusty, and we have a couple other defenseman hurt

so right now we are just trying to stay afloat until we get some people back, but we will always be in games because we have a good defensive system

if osgood plays great he can steal some games for us, he already has stolen a few, so thats what im hoping for tonight, so we'll see
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