(01-29-2004) Bush Under Fire Over Global AIDS Funding -- Reuters * - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

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Old 01-30-2004, 07:20 AM   #16
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you feel that the current american president is the main reason that nothing is getting done. i feel that the problem is more deeply rooted than that. it goes to the very core of the american public. many groups are opposed to the idea of aid for africa, including those on the left. indeed i was told today by a college professor when i brought up this subject, that to go to Africa and try to help these people out would be to "fall back on old colonialist ideals. these people can take care of their own problems without america's interference." polititians in the us find themselves being handcuffed by the vast majority of their constituents that share these or similar views.
Yes there is a large problem of perception not only in the US but in Canada , France etc.. Believe me I hold other countries just as responsible.. I just don't believe President Bush ever really put all his efforts into this, his interest lie not with this. That is not to put all the blame on this man , as you have said that would not be fair and I do not. But he has his cross to bear on this and is not guiltless. Yes it goes to the very core of the American public, it is going to take a Multilateral effort which . Even organizations in America involved on this emergency have their own politics to play, that is why I much rather see more of the funding go towards the Global Fund.. Bush's own argument against this has been absortive capacity.. that is that Africa can't absorb all that money.. which has been proven wrong over and over again.

As for my own country Canada , Paul Martin and our Government have a chance to make ammendement to out Drug Patent Act which will basically allow generic drugs to get to Africa.. Although this if and when passed is a amazing thing, it is not enough , we also have to increase our perentage per GDP to .7%. Being A Canadian I hold my governmentt responsible to take these actions

Yes there is that ideal , they should look after themselves.. how very nice for the people that think this doesnt effect them as well.
This is a human rights issue, it's not charity.. Africans are not helpless .. simply they need our help .. There is still predjudice in this world and it disguises itself in many forms.. I don't know how you get around all of it.. But for the people that can do something .. they should.. For me it is a moral issue ,

The United States currently contributes the least amount per GDP of any Country, and has the capacity to contribute the most. That is a sad state..
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Old 01-30-2004, 08:50 AM   #17
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i think bono should go to the UN and build a solid international coalition and a mandate from the security council before the united states should be made to give anything...

how much is schroder giving? how much is chirac giving? someone wanna give me those stats? or are you gonna just keep bashing bush for giving 2.7 billion... $300 million more than what congress allowed in the budget this past year... TRIPLING the amount that the beloved bill clinton gave to africa.

but it's still all bush's fault...

amazing to me. almost as amazing as watching the lone democratic candidate who could give a legit challenge to bush, joe lieberman, slide by the way side, chosing a man who's voting record is more to the left then ted kennedy's for pete's sake. i don't get it... maybe i'm just nuts.
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Old 01-30-2004, 12:21 PM   #18
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babyman, thank you for doing your your part to help the aids problem. this is exactly what i was referring to. if more people and indeed countries would actually go and do something about this problem, rather than sitting back and hoping that someone else will do it.
thank you, and all of the other people doing their part to make sure people get the help they need!
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Old 01-30-2004, 12:53 PM   #19
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But the problem is that the US is giveing proportionately the least out of the Western nations and that's the sticking point. When they can do the most to alleviate the situation they are doing the least. And I agree that this is not on Bush alone, most of the US Congress deserve a stick of dynamite up their asses for being sucj apathetic assholes, and so do the legislatures everywhere in the West. The final problem is as has been said that people don't give a fuck. To whom much is given, much is expected, and this is going to be on our heads.
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Old 01-30-2004, 02:12 PM   #20
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The White House's Director of National AIDS Policy has written to Congress at least three times since the President's Africa trip to try to stop Congress from providing full funding to critically-needed global AIDS programs Because of White House pressure, the Global Fund will likely cut its grant-making in half next year. Europe has now far outpaced the US in donations to this innovative and cost-effective funding mechanism.
The public outcry over Bushís go-slow approach has led to a startling development on Capitol Hill. 89 Senators, including previous backers of the Bush position, voted for an 18% increase ($289 million) in AIDS funding, significantly above the Presidentís request. The startling defiance of the President by Senate Republicans, led by Senator DeWine (R-OH), dramatically showed how out of touch the President has become on the funding issue
.from the Global Aids Alliance http://www.globalaidsalliance.org
Equitable
Contribution
that has been
pledged thus
far (as a percentage of GDP)
Canada .42
France .47
Italy .60
USA .31
UK .40

There will be a meeting in London for "Fund the Fund", a meeting of NGO's and organizations to discuss current funding level to the Global Fund and what has to be done. .. The Global Fund is very much underfunded.. ever country needs to pick up their socks and increase their contribution or the Fund will have to decrease it's allocations in the next round..

DATA: www.datadata.org
Global Fund http://www.theglobalfund.org/en/
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Old 01-30-2004, 05:23 PM   #21
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As background to my comments - I am an American whose political views tend to be almost libertarian most of the time (meaning, the less gov't involvement in most things, the better). So, most people would be surprised that I favor actively helping Africa. I am not a blind supporter of Bush by any means, either Ė I disagree with an awful lot of his opinions. That said, even I believe that the US and other able countries need to step in and take a very active role in the AIDS situation in Africa. To that end, I not only give of my own money regularly to specific organizations that do that work, but have voiced my opinions to my politicians many times over the past year or so. (Sen DeWine, mentioned above, is actually my Senator and I've corresponded with him a couple times.) Point being - I believe, as it seems many other folks here do - that we have a moral responsibility to spend the money to do something; I am not a cold-hearted Republican, as that stereotype seems to go.

Nonetheless - I get a little tired of the Bush-bashing and America-bashing that goes on here (and frankly other U2 sites. Itís a bit tough sometimes to a U2 fan thatís not a political liberal! J). Certainly everyone's entitled to their opinion, don't get me wrong. But, it seems to me there are a couple of things to think about - Iím not a huge expert on all this, but just wanted to share a few thoughts from a different perspective. Hope my comments are taken in that spirit!

- while the way the money is being split may not be perfect (and I agree, it's not), the US is now spending far far more on this problem under Bush than it did under Clinton, whom so many people on the U2 boards seem to love
- no, this issue is probably not at the very top of Bushís agenda. Yes, it would be nice if it were, but you know what Ė his first priority is to serve and protect Americans. We may not all agree on how he does that, but that is his first job, not saving Africa, as cold as that may sound. Iím pretty sure saving Africa is not #1 on the list for Blair, Martin, Chirac, etc either.
- unfortunately, I donít see the American public clamoring for this funding, nor do I see voters in other countries (Canada, Western Europe) making a huge issue out of it either. Sad, but true. On the positive side, I have personally seen the impact Bonoís Heart of America trip started to make. He came to Cincinnati, Ohio (where I live) as part of that Ė and ever since then there are regular articles in the paper, editorials, and letters from the public about it and his efforts. It hasnít been forgotten. That says to me that awareness and real understanding is part of the problem.
- Yes, itís true that proportionately the US gives less. I donít like that either. But I would ask folks to also remember what the US has done for other countries in other capacities Ė WWII, peace-keeping, etc. When other places run into trouble in all sorts of other ways Ė we are who they turn to.
- I believe over the last few months Iíve read that Japan has kicked up its funding for Africa, but the same is not true for some other countries in Europe. The US, on the other hand, has (perhaps imperfectly) increased its funding dramatically.
- Finally - Can we please stop reliving the past? Yes, the US (and other countries) did some unsavory things in Africa during the Cold War. However, it wasnít the US that colonized Africa in the first place, from what I know. So, Europe is not without blame for some of Africaís problems. Seems to me in order to address the current issues, we ALL need to start fresh. I recall Bono saying something one time about how the entire relationship between Africa and ďthe WestĒ was just really screwed up Ė and itís time for us all to try again.
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Old 01-30-2004, 11:09 PM   #22
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First off I will say over again as I have on different occasions that I respect president Bush for the job he has to do. that doesnt mean I don't disagree with many of his decisions nor that my ideas are right.. but I will hold politicians accountable if that comes across as bashing perhaps some of us need thicker skin.. If it is duty for country over everything else I can respect that .. but dont make excuses and make up false pretense to justify that as I feel polticians sometimes do by using the absortive capacity argument . As the leader of US of course Bush looks after the US first as Martin does in Canada and so on and so forth. But there is a reason we have the United Nations and International organizations so that we can see the broader concerns past our boarders as they two effect our own countries and nations and our futures. When Colin Powell suggests the war on terror is bound up in the war on aids.. I would consider him a credible source.
I don't support any poltical particular party in the US , I am for whoever exemplifies my values and beleifs and that is a personal chose.Whether or not I like George W. Bush doesnt really matter , at the end of the day if the US is doing what it should on these issues then I don't particularly care what my personal feelings are about the man. I never supported Bill Clinton andhis admnistration in anyway but I do like what he is doing now working on gaining access to generic drugs

Like I said also it is wonderful to see President Bush doing something, ya I am happy for that , and I am thankful.. But just as so many other countries it is not enough. Paul Martin .. not doing enough and so on and so forth.. But this article was not about Canada or any other country so I tried not to drift off to those issues.

My bottom line is I would have hoped to see more money directed to the Global Fund instead of it being directed to U.S agencies. If you understand the Fund and how it works, the money I believe has a better chance of directly helping those in Africa then deleivering it through US based programs.

When you are the most powerful country in the world people turn to you and look to you for assistance . The US is not the only country who has a history of coming to peoples aid through war and peacekeeping etc..

And yes the relationship between the west and Africa is severely screwed up, from perception to action . Like I said predjuidce hides itself in many forms.

I think I also mentioned how it will take a multilateral efforts.. that means the public as well, that means eduacting and informing the public because although it has gotten better through the help of organizations like DATA and people like Stephin Lewis, Oprah and Bono there just isnt the public crying out on this issue like they should and I hope that changes.. I hope alot changes because if it doesnt what will be the history we look back on years from now..


I will never not find it baffling that the U.S is the best position economically percentage wise to give funding and still they give less then most. If you wonder why the focus is by so many on what the US does thats why..

Not all of us are going to agree on this and i know my ideas and thoughts probably are far from being right and maybe without intentention sometimes offend..

U2 grace I wanna thank you for helping me to understand your opinions and I wanna thank you for carrying and doing what you can on this.. glad there are people like you !!
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Old 01-30-2004, 11:20 PM   #23
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Thanks Katey for your comments. I think we're largely in agreement. I just wish everyone who gets in on these conversations (here and elsewhere) could do so in a way that is more thought out and doesn't have to resort to name-calling and stereotyping. Thanks again!
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Old 01-30-2004, 11:34 PM   #24
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yes I hear you on that.. sometimes it's hard to keep emotions in check other times with people well it's something different altogether ( I won't open that can of worms)
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Old 01-31-2004, 06:53 AM   #25
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Originally posted by shrmn8rpoptart
babyman, thank you for doing your your part to help the aids problem. this is exactly what i was referring to. if more people and indeed countries would actually go and do something about this problem, rather than sitting back and hoping that someone else will do it.
thank you, and all of the other people doing their part to make sure people get the help they need!

you know, shrmn, i'm real sick to see so many children dying without faults, without living their lives, with no hopes and no dreams. and when i see so many politicians, especially in my country, so stinking rich, making so many promises, deceiving so many hearts, and ourselves as much, now, that's what makes me much more sad and angry. you're right, everyone of us should try to do his best, i'm completely agree with you! you know, i'm not rich, but i feel so much as a very lucky guy, i got my family, my friends, i eat and drink everyday, and that's my main reason to do something...even a dollar, even just a cent...i can't stay there just watching the flies flying through the air, i wouldn't sleep at night. i'm happy that we've cleared, shrmn, so take care and see you in next threads!
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Old 02-02-2004, 01:02 PM   #26
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Bush with this Africa issue is just another reason why we have to try our hardest to get him out the White house in 2004. Look at his resume during his term, its horrific, he shouldnt be able to get a job at McDonalds after what hes done in office.
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