verte76
Blue Crack Addict
I need to read Sachs' book.
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:I haven't yet read Sachs' book, but as a Third World Development minor, I've taken my share of econ and business management classes. I agree w/ Sachs (and you guys digsy and stars). "Sweatshops" or factories are not a problem in and of themselves. I'm not opposed to outsourcing, but I am opposed to blatant exploitation. Many companies that outsource pay foreign employess less than half of the American minimum wage. They could STILL pay under the American minimum wage even if they doubled their foreign wages and the workers would be much better off. Often these workers are supporting huge families with poor health and living conditions so these people are way worse off than your average American factory worker and yet their making less than half as much. Companies also like to outsource b/c they can skimp on benefits in other countries. There are an honest few who pay their foreign workers decent wages, still below the American minimum, but better than most, and also include benefit packages like we have in the US.
digsy said:
in a way i agree but you've also got to remember that somtimes paying someone in an underdeveloped country a tenth of what you'd pay your own countries employees, still works out to several times more than these people would normally get paid. yes, in theory they could pay more or the american minimum wage equivalent but then why bother outsourcing at all? Obviously this isnt always the case and exploitation is rife and a serious concern but just because a country doesnt get paid American equivalent prices doesnt always mean they're getting paid badly.
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:
Exactly. What I mean is most companies will pay less than half of the American minimum wage. Now if they paid their foreign workers just HALF of what they have to pay here, this would be a HUGE improvement on the quality of life and they're still paying half of what they'd have to here. In most cases, outsourcing = exploitation (IMO). The numbers aren't comparable. Even if you figured out that in a third world country 1/4 of the American minimum wage has the same value as the minimum wage does here, that's just math. The truth is these factory workers are supporting larger families and extended families in much poorer living conditions and health than here. There is a happy medium between cutting labor costs by outsourcing and meeting peoples' basic needs, but most companies just don't care. I completely support outsourcing and foreign direct investment went it's done ethically.
Mucca said:I found this article in the newspaper today..
Wristband effort called 'unethical'
The Province - May 29, 2005
LONDON -- Wristbands sold to raise money for a campaign against world poverty are made in Chinese sweatshops in "slave labour'' conditions.
The shocking conditions and disclosed in confidential "ethical audits" of factories that make the fashionable white wristbands for the Make Poverty History campaign, started by a coalition of more than 400 charities.
Bob Geldof, who last week confirmed a follow-up to the 1985 Live Aid concert -- to coincide with the G8 summet in July -- called for action when he was told.
"The charities should pull out of deals with those companies immediately or set a firm deadline for improvements and pull out if the improvements are not met," Geldof said.
One senior official with a British charity last night described the labour abuses as "deeply shocking."
Hundreds of thousands of wristbands, made in fabric or silicon, have been sold in Britain, with pop stars, soccer players and politicians, including Tony BLiar, seen wearing them.
Each wristband costs one pound, or $2.30 CDN of which 33 cents or 70 pence goes to the charities.
The audit reports obtained by The Sunday Telegraph show that Chinese factories making the silicon versions fall woefully short of accepted ethical standards.
- The Sunday Telegraph
starsgoblue said:I had a booth for The One Campaign at a local AIDS walk a few weeks ago and they sent me a box full of bracelets....none of them said that. I think perhaps there are 'fakes' making the rounds...
zooperson said:i surly hope this isnt true about the one bands. i would sure feel ridiculous.
pollypocket said:I got mine (one band) from a pre-concert party, it says www.one.org.
I hope this disappointing news isn't true! I would also feel foolish.
I have a "Walk for asthma" band that has (made in China), along with some other bands I purchased...I guess these bands will have to take a walk to the Trash!
Shame, Shame, Shame
digsy said:hmm, i'm gonna throw myself into the fire here and ask if anyone has read Jeffrey Sachs "The End Of Poverty" book?
Right in the beginning he discusses "sweat shops" in particular those in India. His opinion is that while conditions in sweat shops are appalling, many of the woman who work in them are better off than if they didnt. it gives them a greater sense of independence and puts woman in the workplace where they can now earn for themselves and take their own individual step upwards out of poverty. the effect on further generations is astounding with woman who are working normally having less children than those who don't work which means greater opportunity for the children they do have.
in fact, many of the first generation of sweat shop workers are now able to provide their own children with an education that they didnt have before which puts those children one step ahead on the poverty ladder and in a better position than their parents. It's a kind of chain reaction that improves in time.
One of the big obstacles in overcoming extreme poverty is a lack of gender equality and enabling woman to work, be it in sweat shops or elsewhwere, kick starts a change in the economy which can help pull a country out of its poverty through the generation to generation changes i just mentioned.
What Sachs says, which i now agree with, is that we shouldnt be fighting to shut down sweat shops but working harder to make sufficient changes within them so that these woman are no longer subjected to sexual harrassment, slave wages, appalling conditions etc because ultimately the work they do in the sweatshops is a very good thing for both themselves and the country employing them thats trying to pull itself out of poverty.
now obviously these "rules" can get bent slightly - it's a different ball game with children and its different country to country - but as a general practice, the pro's and cons of sweat shop work are very misunderstood.
right, you can all flame me now
starsgoblue said:I don't think any of us are saying there should be sweatshops where women are harassesd, people are exploited and whatnot. We were saying that the work available should not be taken away from these places either....that conditions should and MUST be improved so people in these countries can actually get thier hands on the rung of the development ladder.
One speaker said that while Bono and Geldof are doing great things for the Third World... it is naive to believe that poverty could be ended because debt drives affluent Western capitalist societies.
starsgoblue said:
Recent reports have concluded that the World Bank and IMF have enough resources to cancel 100 percent of the heavily indebted poor country debts, WITHOUT any impact on thier credit rating or ability to lend. So I'd disagree.