Wristband effort called 'unethical'

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:
I haven't yet read Sachs' book, but as a Third World Development minor, I've taken my share of econ and business management classes. I agree w/ Sachs (and you guys digsy and stars). "Sweatshops" or factories are not a problem in and of themselves. I'm not opposed to outsourcing, but I am opposed to blatant exploitation. Many companies that outsource pay foreign employess less than half of the American minimum wage. They could STILL pay under the American minimum wage even if they doubled their foreign wages and the workers would be much better off. Often these workers are supporting huge families with poor health and living conditions so these people are way worse off than your average American factory worker and yet their making less than half as much. Companies also like to outsource b/c they can skimp on benefits in other countries. There are an honest few who pay their foreign workers decent wages, still below the American minimum, but better than most, and also include benefit packages like we have in the US.
Click to expand...

in a way i agree but you've also got to remember that somtimes paying someone in an underdeveloped country a tenth of what you'd pay your own countries employees, still works out to several times more than these people would normally get paid. yes, in theory they could pay more or the american minimum wage equivalent but then why bother outsourcing at all? Obviously this isnt always the case and exploitation is rife and a serious concern but just because a country doesnt get paid American equivalent prices doesnt always mean they're getting paid badly.
 
digsy said:


in a way i agree but you've also got to remember that somtimes paying someone in an underdeveloped country a tenth of what you'd pay your own countries employees, still works out to several times more than these people would normally get paid. yes, in theory they could pay more or the american minimum wage equivalent but then why bother outsourcing at all? Obviously this isnt always the case and exploitation is rife and a serious concern but just because a country doesnt get paid American equivalent prices doesnt always mean they're getting paid badly.
Click to expand...

Exactly. What I mean is most companies will pay less than half of the American minimum wage. Now if they paid their foreign workers just HALF of what they have to pay here, this would be a HUGE improvement on the quality of life and they're still paying half of what they'd have to here. In most cases, outsourcing = exploitation (IMO). The numbers aren't comparable. Even if you figured out that in a third world country 1/4 of the American minimum wage has the same value as the minimum wage does here, that's just math. The truth is these factory workers are supporting larger families and extended families in much poorer living conditions and health than here. There is a happy medium between cutting labor costs by outsourcing and meeting peoples' basic needs, but most companies just don't care. I completely support outsourcing and foreign direct investment went it's done ethically.
 
Last edited:
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:


Exactly. What I mean is most companies will pay less than half of the American minimum wage. Now if they paid their foreign workers just HALF of what they have to pay here, this would be a HUGE improvement on the quality of life and they're still paying half of what they'd have to here. In most cases, outsourcing = exploitation (IMO). The numbers aren't comparable. Even if you figured out that in a third world country 1/4 of the American minimum wage has the same value as the minimum wage does here, that's just math. The truth is these factory workers are supporting larger families and extended families in much poorer living conditions and health than here. There is a happy medium between cutting labor costs by outsourcing and meeting peoples' basic needs, but most companies just don't care. I completely support outsourcing and foreign direct investment went it's done ethically.
Click to expand...

yeah, i guess its just a case of finding a proper happy balance between companies getting what they want as cheap as possible (which lets be honest, they will ALWAYS be trying to do) without exploiting those on the other end.

it's difficult because a lot of companies will do anything to save costs, ANYTHING, and thats where human exploitation comes in. how you pursuade those companies otherwise I dont know.
Because you're right, there is a balance between paying less than you would have to in America and NOT exploiting the people who work for you. But if a large multinational company is offered an exploitative (is that a word?) way to save money and get away with it, most of them will take it.
sad but true and all credit to the companies that do treat workers more fairly.
i guess this is what fair trade is all about then :sigh:
 
All ten of mine have www.one.org also.

There were reports in the media that there are "fake" bracelets being sold and that a lot of those were coming in from Asia. They have become a HUGE fashion statement especially with teens who are trying to collect all the colours. Maybe the article is reporting on the fakes (not knowing they were fakes)?????
 
I think I just solved the mystery but it still doesn't look very good.

I was mistaken when I said the 20 that I purchased through one.org were stamped "made in China" Those are stamped only with "theonecampaign.org"

The bands I bought in San Diego at the official U2 merch table are stamped "theonecampaign.org" AND "made in China" :|

So is U2 using a different supplier than one.org?
 
Mucca said:
I found this article in the newspaper today..:(

Wristband effort called 'unethical'

The Province - May 29, 2005
LONDON -- Wristbands sold to raise money for a campaign against world poverty are made in Chinese sweatshops in "slave labour'' conditions.

The shocking conditions and disclosed in confidential "ethical audits" of factories that make the fashionable white wristbands for the Make Poverty History campaign, started by a coalition of more than 400 charities.

Bob Geldof, who last week confirmed a follow-up to the 1985 Live Aid concert -- to coincide with the G8 summet in July -- called for action when he was told.

"The charities should pull out of deals with those companies immediately or set a firm deadline for improvements and pull out if the improvements are not met," Geldof said.

One senior official with a British charity last night described the labour abuses as "deeply shocking."

Hundreds of thousands of wristbands, made in fabric or silicon, have been sold in Britain, with pop stars, soccer players and politicians, including Tony BLiar, seen wearing them.

Each wristband costs one pound, or $2.30 CDN of which 33 cents or 70 pence goes to the charities.

The audit reports obtained by The Sunday Telegraph show that Chinese factories making the silicon versions fall woefully short of accepted ethical standards.

- The Sunday Telegraph
Click to expand...

This is sad, if true. To think that people working so hard against poverty would be dumb enough to propagate something that keeps people down... :yikes:

But I also think this is a poorly written article. It speaks of "labour abuses" and "shocking conditions" but doesn't give any detail as to what those might be. I just find it's tone to be very negative and divisive. (The kind of backlash that follows any big trend). :no:

While the article only mentions the Make Poverty History campaign, it is left to your imagination as to whether ALL wristbands were made in "shocking conditions". A good reporter would have found examples of these type of bracelets being made in good factories. - after all, not EVERYthing that's made in China is made under slave labor conditions.

And as for the discussions about "sweatshops"... THANK YOU!! I'm so glad there are so many smart people on Interference :love: !

The problem with AMerica is that we want cheap stuff (witness the rise of WalMart) but every once in a while go off the deep end over something we don't really understand (sweatshops). Many people don't care to find out where their goods are made unless told it is bad. But we also have to understand that OUR standards are not universal.

*steps down from soapbox*
 
starsgoblue said:
I had a booth for The One Campaign at a local AIDS walk a few weeks ago and they sent me a box full of bracelets....none of them said that. I think perhaps there are 'fakes' making the rounds...
Click to expand...

that confused me at first, too, but i ordered a pack of 10 directly from the one campaign website, and some of them say onecampaign.org on the inside, some say made in china, some say nothing at all on the inside. and these all are from the same shipment.
i do not think the issue is whether the "one" bands are fakes.
as you guys have pointed out, just because it says "made in china" does not mean it is made in an unethical environment. the article stated that one factory in particular in china that one of the charities offering "make poverty history" placed an order with--has unethical working conditions.
the one campaign and one campaign bands were not mentioned at all in this article, so we shouldn't jump to conclusions.
 
Last edited:
and i just checked all the others that i orderd from the web site and they all say the same thing. i surly hope this isnt true about the one bands. i would sure feel ridiculous.
 
I got mine (one band) from a pre-concert party, it says www.one.org.
I hope this disappointing news isn't true! I would also feel foolish.
I have a "Walk for asthma" band that has (made in China), along with some other bands I purchased...I guess these bands will have to take a walk to the Trash!

Shame, Shame, Shame:(
 
zooperson said:
i surly hope this isnt true about the one bands. i would sure feel ridiculous.
Click to expand...

pollypocket said:
I got mine (one band) from a pre-concert party, it says www.one.org.
I hope this disappointing news isn't true! I would also feel foolish.
I have a "Walk for asthma" band that has (made in China), along with some other bands I purchased...I guess these bands will have to take a walk to the Trash!

Shame, Shame, Shame:(
Click to expand...

I think you'll find your dvd player probably says made in china also but I don't think you're going to throw that in the trash now are you?

just because it's made in china does NOT mean it was made by small suffering children in a tiny overcrowded factory where everyone is suffering in horrendous oxygen and food starved environments while being beaten!

you guys are jumping to conclusions - go back and read the last 2 pages of this thread about the reality of sweat shops and how they really effect the people and the economy.
in fact, do one better, go out and read "The End Of Poverty" by Jeffrey Sachs - you'll soon change your tune on the "shame" of wearing a product made in a developing country.
 
digsy said:
hmm, i'm gonna throw myself into the fire here and ask if anyone has read Jeffrey Sachs "The End Of Poverty" book?

Right in the beginning he discusses "sweat shops" in particular those in India. His opinion is that while conditions in sweat shops are appalling, many of the woman who work in them are better off than if they didnt. it gives them a greater sense of independence and puts woman in the workplace where they can now earn for themselves and take their own individual step upwards out of poverty. the effect on further generations is astounding with woman who are working normally having less children than those who don't work which means greater opportunity for the children they do have.
in fact, many of the first generation of sweat shop workers are now able to provide their own children with an education that they didnt have before which puts those children one step ahead on the poverty ladder and in a better position than their parents. It's a kind of chain reaction that improves in time.
One of the big obstacles in overcoming extreme poverty is a lack of gender equality and enabling woman to work, be it in sweat shops or elsewhwere, kick starts a change in the economy which can help pull a country out of its poverty through the generation to generation changes i just mentioned.

What Sachs says, which i now agree with, is that we shouldnt be fighting to shut down sweat shops but working harder to make sufficient changes within them so that these woman are no longer subjected to sexual harrassment, slave wages, appalling conditions etc because ultimately the work they do in the sweatshops is a very good thing for both themselves and the country employing them thats trying to pull itself out of poverty.

now obviously these "rules" can get bent slightly - it's a different ball game with children and its different country to country - but as a general practice, the pro's and cons of sweat shop work are very misunderstood.

right, you can all flame me now :|
Click to expand...

Makes sense to me. Remember Bono said we need to end stupid poverty. Once that is done then we can work on poverty. Many "1st/2nd world" nations started out as sweat shop nations, it is through new found independence and generational changes that they were able to create more viable economic nations. I see this happening with India and China in the next few decades.

BTW my ONE wristband from the U2 concert does not say made in China either.

Okay you can flame me too now...
 
this is what someone wrote on livejournal [not me. I dont know if the article is true or not]

"Actually that's entire bullshit. The re-copies that companies use to make them and make money off them (like the 'LiveStrong' bracelet are) but their original manufacturers don't make them that way.

'Edun' helped with the 'one' and 'make poverty history' bracelets and they've nothing to do with sweat shops."
 
Swaetshops ARE bad.
If they aren't bad they're called FACTORIES.
FACTORIES = good happy well paid employess
SWEATSHOPS = abused, miserable under paid (if paid at all) employees.

Anti-sweatshop campaigns are not about shutting them down, they are about trying to fix the probelm. That tends to be a gross misunderstanding about anti-sweat campaigns, that ppl have the wrong idea about the intentions (not that any of yall were saying that, just letting ppl know)

But saying that someone is better off being told they aren't allowed to go to the bathroom because they haven't met their quota and convincing parents to sell off their children because 'they'll make big money working for American companies and they can send the money back to the family' when in fact they won't even get enough money to eat everyday is not empowering ppl or making anyones life any better.

THAT is why it is important to make the distinction between 'sweatshop' and just a 'factory'. It's misleading to people and is purposly used to make the anti-sweat faction look like a bunch of non-educated business hating hippies who 'don't really know what they are talking about'

And on the wristband subject-
I'm bothered by the trendy aspect of it. I see countless people who are wearing them, and I highly doubt in 10 years time people would still sport them so enthusiastically. Yes it's good for people to buy them, but I'd rather people just give some money to a charity, or volunteer to help somewhere. When human/social issues turn into fashion statements, it scares me.
 
I don't think any of us are saying there should be sweatshops where women are harassesd, people are exploited and whatnot. We were saying that the work available should not be taken away from these places either....that conditions should and MUST be improved so people in these countries can actually get thier hands on the rung of the development ladder.

Secondly, I know for a fact that there are many of us here who do wear the wristband AND actually get thier hands dirty volunteering for this emergency. The wristband is a just simply a good converstation starter, I've had several conversations with people as a result of them asking about it. But that's just a starting point.
 
Last edited:
starsgoblue said:
I don't think any of us are saying there should be sweatshops where women are harassesd, people are exploited and whatnot. We were saying that the work available should not be taken away from these places either....that conditions should and MUST be improved so people in these countries can actually get thier hands on the rung of the development ladder.
Click to expand...

Just as we did in the US. Sweatshops were common here up through the first part of the 1900's. For the record, I wasn't around to witness this.:wink:
 
Has anyone seen the 'Get up, Stand up' documentary about rock stars and their involvement in politics?

One speaker said that while Bono and Geldof are doing great things for the Third World... it is naive to believe that poverty could be ended because debt drives affluent Western capitalist societies.

The singer from Chumbawumba (?) said things like Live Aid solves nothing about the world's inequity (i.e. taking money away from working and low-middle class households)... I think he was intimating global socialism.

I'm still invesitgating these opinions for myself.


RE: Wrist bands.... surely when they put the wrist bands out to tender and awarded the contract to the cheapest company (presumably) ... they took the fact of exploitation somewhere along the production line into consideration. This is what it's all about.
 
One speaker said that while Bono and Geldof are doing great things for the Third World... it is naive to believe that poverty could be ended because debt drives affluent Western capitalist societies.
Click to expand...

Recent reports have concluded that the World Bank and IMF have enough resources to cancel 100 percent of the heavily indebted poor country debts, WITHOUT any impact on thier credit rating or ability to lend. So I'd disagree.
 
starsgoblue said:


Recent reports have concluded that the World Bank and IMF have enough resources to cancel 100 percent of the heavily indebted poor country debts, WITHOUT any impact on thier credit rating or ability to lend. So I'd disagree.
Click to expand...

Cool, I hope it happens.
 
I even said in my post that I wasn't accusing anyone of saying sweatshops are good, I'm saying that what you are talking about are not sweatshops, they are factories.

And for christs sake I was saying "everyone who buys those wristbands aren't doing shit" obviously if you are actually DOING SOMETHING I'm not talking to you.
Please don't assume I'm out to get you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

DaveC
Pious plonker or just misunderstood: why we should all lay off Bono
2
Replies
51
Views
4K
dazzledbylight
dazzledbylight
MrsSpringsteen
Bono Wants One Campaign To Be NRA For The World's Poor
Replies
2
Views
607
lazarus
lazarus
Phantom Dreamer
  • Locked
Justin Trudeau Neoliberal
Replies
0
Views
762
Phantom Dreamer
Phantom Dreamer
lharper
Innocent Experience - Chapter 4
Replies
6
Views
2K
eriekittym
eriekittym
Irvine511
surrogacy
Replies
1
Views
812
anitram
anitram

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom