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Old 10-07-2007, 11:01 AM   #16
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I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the kids have some self-defense training. Nor would I be surprised if the dogs you see around his house are trained security dogs - the kind that are really nice until you do something stupid, at which point they eat you. I worked with some who were the nicest dogs, ever - you could bathe them, clip their nails, clean their ears, pick them up, do whatever you wanted to them; and yet, when they're in training, they were nifty with their teeth. I mean, these dogs would swing off their trainer by the teeth and not let go no matter what you did. The youngest was about six months, and couldn't have weighed more than fifty pounds, but could take down the 6'4", 200 pound trainer without batting an eyelash. Sweet puppy, I just wouldn't recomend breaking into the vet clinic where he lives. It'll cost you.

They probably do have some pretty subtle security around somewhere - the best security is the security you don't see until it's needed.
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Old 10-07-2007, 11:08 AM   #17
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Originally posted by last unicorn

So yes, he is protecting them. Most media don't even know his kids when they see them.
As evidenced by the whole Penelope Cruz bullshit earlier in the summer. I could understand the tabloids deliberately ignoring the fact that his kids were there but the regular media that tentatively picked up on the story missed it as well so it just goes to show that his kids are not as identifiable as we may think.

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Old 10-07-2007, 02:01 PM   #18
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As evidenced by the whole Penelope Cruz bullshit earlier in the summer. I could understand the tabloids deliberately ignoring the fact that his kids were there but the regular media that tentatively picked up on the story missed it as well so it just goes to show that his kids are not as identifiable as we may think.

Dana
Not just that, but in the video clip with Helena Christenson, they didn't even realize that Bono's wife Ali, was standing right next to her. They don't even always know who she is.
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Old 10-07-2007, 07:25 PM   #19
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Originally posted by Hinder
I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the kids have some self-defense training. Nor would I be surprised if the dogs you see around his house are trained security dogs - the kind that are really nice until you do something stupid, at which point they eat you. I worked with some who were the nicest dogs, ever - you could bathe them, clip their nails, clean their ears, pick them up, do whatever you wanted to them; and yet, when they're in training, they were nifty with their teeth. I mean, these dogs would swing off their trainer by the teeth and not let go no matter what you did. The youngest was about six months, and couldn't have weighed more than fifty pounds, but could take down the 6'4", 200 pound trainer without batting an eyelash. Sweet puppy, I just wouldn't recomend breaking into the vet clinic where he lives. It'll cost you.

Yeah, in some pics of his home there have been some German Shepherds lounging around (though you could tell from the pictures they were German high-lines type dogs, not DDR/Czech lines typically used for estate protection, but still a powerful visual deterrence even with no training). Someone also once posted a more recent pic with two dogs that look like Canaan Dogs, quite primitive dogs known for their keen watchdog abilities. Estate dogs (primarily German Shepherds, Malinois, and Dutch Shepherds) are extremely valuable dogs and cost about $65,000 each. Their training is WAY above and beyond the "protection" training that many dog owners do for sport (namely Schutzhund). I would not be surprised to find such dogs on Bono's property. (And as an aside, the reason why these dogs are great protection dogs is not because of their bite or aggression, but their drive, which is expertly bred and selected for genetically. They are training from 2 months of age to bite and retrieve the bite sleeve, so their attacks and bites have nothing to do with any aggressive tendencies. The dog NEVER EVER gets to decide when to bite.)
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Old 10-07-2007, 08:46 PM   #20
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Originally posted by waynetravis



There is a bench across the street from his house, someone told me fans sometimes sleep on it all day waiting for him to come out


Horrible thing to happen if the plans were true and went ahead

A Irish man i chatted to a while ago told me How fans camp outside his house and bono has come out and chatted to them.

Don't know how long ago he was talking about i didn't ask.

I'm glad it didn't happen Why kill bono Bono hasn't done any harm to anyone.
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Old 10-08-2007, 12:38 PM   #21
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^ What people consider 'harmful' varies wildly, I've learned.

Lies - I totally want to get into that kind of protection training, because I think it's the coolest. The dog doesn't go after people it shouldn't, so no real danger to small kids and other pets. That's the kind of training I can really get into. It's hard to tell people the difference between 'attack' dogs and protection dogs, though. They don't get the point that a real protection dog doesn't attack everything it sees, /only/ on command or after a break in.
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Old 10-08-2007, 01:43 PM   #22
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Lies - I totally want to get into that kind of protection training, because I think it's the coolest. The dog doesn't go after people it shouldn't, so no real danger to small kids and other pets. That's the kind of training I can really get into. It's hard to tell people the difference between 'attack' dogs and protection dogs, though. They don't get the point that a real protection dog doesn't attack everything it sees, /only/ on command or after a break in.
Exactly. Most people who are not into dogs (specifically German and Belgian breeds) don't realize how these dogs are trained. It is NOT aggression. Aggressive dogs are culled (put to sleep to prevent that trait from carrying on). They start by picking a "drivey" dog, a puppy that REALLY likes to tug and will hang on even when suspended off the ground. I went to a SchH demo once where they took an 8 week old Dutch Shepherd puppy, gave her one of those toys like a cat toy with a sock on a string, got her going for it, and then the trainer had her dangling in the air from the sock and pretended to hit her while yelling and the pup didn't flinch. THAT is how they select their dogs, the ones that are obsessed with tugging. From that they are taught to tug at the bite sleeve. When they are first training, the reward for a good hit IS the sleeve (they get to pull it off the decoy and run around with it, just like how we play tug-of-war with our pet dogs and let them chew on their tug rope). The dogs aren't driving b/c they want to BITE, they drive b/c they want that SLEEVE!!

True protection dogs are different than SchH dogs (SchH is a far more common dog sport that, IMO does not constitute actual protection work or police training, but is a great foundation for drivey dogs). Protection dogs must be trained to discriminate between which arms hold/carry weapons (SchH dogs simply go for the sleeve). Protection dogs must also be able to knock over and hold a suspect with the force of their body, not just the bite. In both SchH and protection work, the decoy (the decoy is the person being charged) MUST be able to greet the handler and pet the dog after the attack. You can see the dogs are happily panting and like being petted, they are not aggressive at all, even after having charged and "bitten" the decoy's sleeve.

Estate dogs are several levels above SchH and protection dogs. I don't know much their training other than it takes years and just based on the drive and smarts required, plus all the man-hours that go into training, the dogs are tens of thousands of dollars and can be worth every penny. So far, I've only found one website that advertises what I would consider legitimate personal protection and estate dogs (I'll have to look for the link). Last night I googled Estate Dogs and all of the sites I checked were just well-bred German Shepherds with SchH titles - NOT personal protection or estate dogs, sorry.

Anyway, since we share this common interest, here are some of my favorite YouTube videos....

Near-perfect SchH heeling pattern (shows that the "heel/Fuss" position in SchH is slightly forward than that in all-breed competitive obedience and rally-o):


GSD using his body, not his mouth/bite to subdue and hold a decoy:


I'm going to the local SchH club hopefully soon (I met someone else that also wants to join). My current dog does not have the right temperament for this sport, but we are going to go check it out and if I enjoy it, I will keep it in mind if/when I buy a puppy.

Sorry for getting off-topic! These dogs deserve their own thread I suppose....
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Old 10-09-2007, 01:47 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hinder
^ What people consider 'harmful' varies wildly, I've learned.

Lies - I totally want to get into that kind of protection training, because I think it's the coolest. The dog doesn't go after people it shouldn't, so no real danger to small kids and other pets. That's the kind of training I can really get into. It's hard to tell people the difference between 'attack' dogs and protection dogs, though. They don't get the point that a real protection dog doesn't attack everything it sees, /only/ on command or after a break in.
It does sound cool.

I do worry this become the new fashion for dogs though. It would just encourage people become more interested in the protection dog.

German Shepherd is already banned from major cities in my country, some cities even banned husky as well (which is completely ridiculous to me, since I'm a huge husky fan...the good part is people is trying to lift the husky ban. However, for German Shepherd, this breed is the no.1 on the black list). But people still trying to get the dogs in private and some of the owner would send their dogs to the specific training center to do similar trainings. As a result, the local authority is doing EVERYTHING to get rid of these dogs from the city.

Believe me, your guys don't want to know what the EVERYTHING really means.

*Sigh*
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Old 10-09-2007, 07:24 AM   #24
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It does sound cool.

I do worry this become the new fashion for dogs though. It would just encourage people become more interested in the protection dog.
Most people cannot afford a protection/estate dog (I know I sure can't! I can't afford the dog OR the training) and most people would not know where to get one or import one (Czech German Shepherds are the best, not German ones, lol). Right now, the "fashion" for dogs is poorly bred "designer" mutts like Cockapoos, Labradoodles, etc - toy dogs mixed with other dogs by people that have no idea what they are doing as far as genetics and titles selling mutts for thousands of dollars.

German Shepherds are actually not that great for estate protection. They are herding dogs with keen noses and are called "velcro" dogs because they often suffer mentally and physically if kept outside on their own. The breed standard insists that they be well-rounded, family oriented dogs. There are certain lines of German Shepherds that have been developed for personal protection, but other breeds of dogs that are more reactive (Belgian Malinois and Dutch Shepherds) and more independent (Canaan Dogs) are inherently better for estate guarding.

The only reason people want to ban German Shepherds is because too many people are buying them from backyard breeders and puppy mills who do not pay attention to temperament and breed for money, not for the improvement of the breed. Those dogs do NOT fit the standard for the German Shepherd, temperamentally and often physically as well (they are usually too big).
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