Evidence-defying recall of past events

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biff

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Here's a passage from a recent article in the Ottawa Sun:

"The year was 1979. The month, March. The city, Dublin. The social and entertainment committee of University College booked local bands to perform every Wednesday at lunch hour at the school.

It booked a band doing gigs at Moran's Hotel. Its price to perform at the college was 100 pounds. The committee would charge 1 pound per ticket and figured to make money at the 300-seat amphitheatre. One of those on the committee was Mick O'Reilly, a history and politics student. He's now assistant night editor of the Globe and Mail newspaper in Toronto.

"The band had a pretty good local reputation and we plastered the place with posters about it coming. The lead singer was a skinhead. He was wearing purple Doc Martin boots up to his knees, red velour jeans, and a custard yellow crewneck sweater.

"When they got on stage, they were looking around and muttering. Like, 'What the f--- is this?' There were only 46 people in the audience. They were insulted. And they were terrible. You'd have done better with a piece of string and a scrubbing brush. They were so bad that people were getting up and walking out saying things like, 'This band is going nowhere.'

"Finally, they quit playing. They just quit, but demanded their 100 quid. But all we could give them was the 46 quid we raised. There was a big hullabaloo, and they stormed out. They were so bad, they should have stuck to concerts at Mount Temple Comprehensive on the Killester Rd. where they went to school. What do you call Mount Temple students wearing suits? The defendants."

The band's name was U2, the skinhead was Paul Hewson, alias Bono."


So, I actually made contact with the alleged witness, Mick O'Reilly, telling him that there was no way that Bono in 1979 was a "skinhead", wearing purple Doc Martin boots up to his knees, and that the band he saw could not have been U2. Amazingly, he actually wrote me back, saying, "He [Bono] certainly was one with an exceedingly tight haircut -- had words with them at the gig and afterward in the caferteria. Wanna contribute to the fee he’s still owed?"

So, I have two questions (at least). Assuming this guy was not hallucinating, did Bono ever appear as someone who might have been construed as a "skinhead"? I've seen plenty of picures of him in 1979, including the bejillion pictures in Bill Graham's book, but he was his usual shaggy self. Also, I question the definition of Mount Temple students: "What do you call Mount Temple students wearing suits? The defendants." Huh? That seems to go against everything I have read.
So, what do you PLEBAN experts say?
 
Picture from U2 live with date...

i1wkg6.jpg


I checked the 1979 gigs, and while the listings for the early shows are far from complete, there is no mention of any University College gig around that time frame :shrug:

Never seen a picture of Bono with short hair that could be misconstrued for "skinhead"-ish around that time (or any other time besides Pop for that matter) :wink:
 
Exactly! Thanks, and I do want to write back to Mr. O'Reilly with lots of evidence. Clearly he was on drugs, hence the "purple Doc Martin boots up to his knees, red velour jeans, and a custard yellow crewneck sweater". Yeah, that desribes a 19 year old Bono, no doubt about it.
.:wink:
But who the hell was he actually talking to? My guess--The Virgin Prunes. That's got Gavin written all over it, including telling someone he was in U2!
 
You are right. That sounds way more like Gavin... :lol:

I do believe Mr. O'Reilly might have been a lil :drunk:

:wink:
 
So, how do we convince him he was wrong, or is the "memory" so seriously entrenched that it's unbudgeable?
 
find pics of the prunes and send them along with the pic Miro posted. it woul make some sence that mr. friday would pull that :huh:

it makes me upset when people insist they know more about u2 than you do.

"i saw zoo tv in 97'"
"you mean popmart"
"no, i mean zoo tv"
"then you mean '92'"
"no"
:|
actual conversation^
 
Didn't they once perform at a small club with like 10 people? If they'd play for 10 or so, can't imagine they'd pass up playing for close to 50.

I really couldn't say, but didn't Adam and Larry sub for the Virgin Prunes a few times?

Edge's brother, naturally probably looked a bit like Edge at the time.

Maybe it was the Virgin Prunes with Adam and Larry subbing that night?

There's no way I could say one way or the other, but maybe it depends on what this guy's image of a skinhead is too.

Bono and Gavin Friday, perhaps they looked similar in 1979, like their faces, to someone who isn't all that familiar with them, perhaps mistaken identity?

For some reason the Virgin Prunes playing at a Dublin college sounds familiar, might have read it somewhere recently....
 
blueyedpoet said:
doesn't skinhead mean something different in Ireland than in america? doesn't it have something to do with unions?

Er not that I'm aware of. :scratch:
 
The only time Bono was ever a 'skinhead' was the POP era! I have seen it written that he 'shaved his head' in the late 70's but I don't believe it because every pic you see of him his hair is like that group pic posted. It would have taken a long time to grow back, and you'd see shorter looks along the way as it did. I say Bono always had the hairdo like you see in the pic, no 'punk' or 'skinhead' look when he was young.
 
biff said:
Assuming this guy was not hallucinating, did Bono ever appear as someone who might have been construed as a "skinhead"? I've seen plenty of picures of him in 1979, including the bejillion pictures in Bill Graham's book, but he was his usual shaggy self.

So, what do you PLEBAN experts say?

U2Kitten said:
The only time Bono was ever a 'skinhead' was the POP era! I have seen it written that he 'shaved his head' in the late 70's but I don't believe it because every pic you see of him his hair is like that group pic posted. It would have taken a long time to grow back, and you'd see shorter looks along the way as it did. I say Bono always had the hairdo like you see in the pic, no 'punk' or 'skinhead' look when he was young.

"With typical boldness, Paul (Bono) was the first to physically cross the line and appear in school dressed in the new garb of punk rock. Having raided his older brother Norman's wardrobe for some second hand sixties clothing, Paul turned up one day in creased, tight fitting purple drainpipes, asharply cut, thin-lapelled suit jacket and a pair of cuffed black Cuban heels. He has a fresh, tightly cropped haircut that was, in itself, positively shocking in an era when attractiveness corresponded with hair length; and to top off the whole outrageous effect he was wearing a thin chain that strecthed from an earring to a safety pin through his mouth."

"His flirtation with punk as an anitfashion movement was short-lived. (As the Edge remarked to me years later: "Bono was never a punk. He just looked like one 'cause he didn't know how to dress!")

"They were starting to look like a rock band now. Bono wore black turlenecks and black jeans and affected a slek, new wave look"

(this is in the fall of 1977)

From "Killing Bono" by Neil McCormick
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"He (Bono) was reportedly the first punk rocker at Mount Temple. One day, he allegedly turned up wearing bright colored pants and a 60s jacked with his hair cropped short and a chain hanging from one of his ears to his nose."

From u2 4 the people by Tony Scott
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe he got the year wrong!
:shrug:

Is University College in Dublin the same as Trinity College?

biff said:
But who the hell was he actually talking to? My guess--The Virgin Prunes. That's got Gavin written all over it, including telling someone he was in U2!

Sounds plausible.

biff said:
is the "memory" so seriously entrenched that it's unbudgeable?

I'm afraid that it may be unbudgeable.
Although I must admit that if indeed they plastered the place with posters about it (the band, which ever one) coming, you would at least expect him to remember the band's name correctly.

But maybe they actually didn't plaster the place and that's why only 46 people showed up and why he has forgotten what really happened.
Although I must say 46 people for a Wednesday afternoon lunch time isn't bad.
If you only had one pond, what would you have done: see a band perform or buy something to eat?

thrillme said:
Didn't they once perform at a small club with like 10 people? If they'd play for 10 or so, can't imagine they'd pass up playing for close to 50.

Edge told me about a Crofton Airport Hotel gig for which only 6 people turned up, three of whom thought a different band were playing. "That's the worst we've ever played," he reported.
"But look on the bright side," said Bono, "only six people know about it."

From "Killing Bono" by Neil McCormick
 
biff said:
It booked a band doing gigs at Moran's Hotel.

You could look further into that.

Found this on atu2.com:

http://www.atu2.com/news/article.src?ID=1959&Key=&Year=2002&Cat=7

Among the many U2 attractions are the Mount Temple comprehensive school in the north of the city, where the group was formed in the late 1970s, as well as venues for their first performances such as the Baggot Inn and Moran's Hotel in south Dublin.
 
The entire safety pin through the nose story is false, I don't have the evidence now, but I have seen it before. That and the hairdo both never happened, just like the flying hat never happened.

There are also pics of Bono on TV in March 1978, he's still got the same hairdo we know from that era.
 
U2Kitten said:
There are also pics of Bono on TV in March 1978, he's still got the same hairdo we know from that era.
If, as Miringeltje said, the hair was cut sometime in '77, that's plenty of time for it to grow out bushy again, as long as his hair grows at an average sort of pace. I'm not a hair dresser or any sort of expert, but I'm fairly sure our hair grows about 1 inch every six weeks or so.
If he got his hair cut short in July '77, (because that would be the easiest on him weather-wise) it would be able to have grown about 6.3 inches, which would be enough to give him his trademark bush :)giggle: I said bush) back by January '78.
And that's if he started from scratch.


Even so, it does seem at the very least, Mr. O'Reilly's gotten his years mixed up.
 
The Virgin Prunes gig history at virginprunes.com doesn't mention anything about either University College or Moran's Hotel. And honestly, while this description hardly screams "Bono" to me either, I can imagine it fitting him far more easily than I can imagine it fitting any of the Prunes. Not to mention that the kind of performance tactics they were already notorious for ought to have ruled them clear out of consideration for a lunchtime gig at a college venue.

Originally posted by blueyedpoet
doesn't skinhead mean something different in Ireland than in america? doesn't it have something to do with unions?
:hmm: Were you thinking of "scab" perhaps?
 
U2Kitten said:
The entire safety pin through the nose story is false, I don't have the evidence now, but I have seen it before. That and the hairdo both never happened, just like the flying hat never happened.

There are also pics of Bono on TV in March 1978, he's still got the same hairdo we know from that era.

I don't think the story is wrong (or false).
The safety pin was a fake one though.
I knew I should have included the following:

"Where did you get that? I (Neil McCormick) said, admiring his chain......"Dandelion Market," said Paul (Bono). "Look." He winked at me and removed the safety pin, demonstrating that you did not actually have to pierce your skin to keep it in place. "

From Killing Bono by Neil McCormick.

Any way, I was just trying to answer the question if Bono did ever appear as someone who might have been construed as a "skinhead".

And apparently for a short while (it may have been only for a day) he did have a "punk" look.

And Edge's comment just makes me :giggle:!

Also there was no mention that he shaved his head.
It just says he had a fresh, tightly cropped haircut.
Which to me only means, it was shorter than he was wearing it before (or shorter than everyone else was wearing it at that time. Because the quote makes it sound like long hair was the norm at that time).
But by no means bold.
And seeing as hair grows, I agree with Meghan, that his hair could have easily been back to what it normally looked like after a few months.

Once again, just trying to help and see if there is evidence around whether Mick O'Reilly's memory is correct or not.

Like I said before, it seems to me that if you indeed plaster posters all around, it is quite likely that he remembers the bands name correctly. And it being quite a disastrous gig (not enough people show up to make a profit, the band is horrible, people walk out and the band does the same) makes chances even higher.

Do I think he remembers correctly?
No

What do I think is wrong?
Year or band?
Probably both.

But how to proof it.

I googled "Moran's Hotel" once again.
The first link I think is appropriate (http://www.bobgeldof.info/Articles/memories.html) tells me that Moran's Hotel was quite the hotbed for the punkrock movement in Dublin around the time u2 were starting out.
Almost every night there were concerts in the basement of the hotel.
One of the bands who performed there was the Boomtown Rats.

(u2 is also mention by the way: " Its important to say that this was a time when Dublin did not really figure on the world rock and roll map. We had Thin Lizzy and occasional gigs by Rory Gallagher, a handful of younger Irish bands. There was a quartet of northside born-again Christians who played Peter Frampton songs, and who, it was said by some, would never amount to much. (That summer, they were changing their name from The Hype to U2.)

The second usefull link brings me to the site of another band: the Radiators from Space.

And there I see something very interesting:

In 1977 they played at Moran's Hotel multiple times.

(other than the story at atu2.com, there is no mention anywhere that u2 ever played at Moran's Hotel).

On january 16 1977 - The entire audience walked out while the Radiators were performing.

On the the 5th of March they played at Morans.

And on March 12 they played at University College.

I also found this picture on that website:

4%20pce%202_jpg.jpg


Taken circa 1977.

Did anyone say red velour pants?!

:lol:

Allright, I doubt anyone has read this far.
So I'll stop now.
 
Miringeltje said:


I don't think the story is wrong (or false).[/'B]


I am doubting it more and more...

On january 16 1977 - The entire audience walked out while the Radiators were performing.

Are you sure? They had only been a band for four months at that time, I don't think they were ready for gigs.:eyebrow:


I also found this picture on that website:

4%20pce%202_jpg.jpg


Taken circa 1977.

Did anyone say red velour pants?!

:lol:


Oh that is the worst yet! That is NOT U2! :tsk:



1babyband-vi.jpg


U2 1978 (note Bono's hair)
 
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U2Kitten said:
I am doubting it more and more...

Why are you doubting it, if I may ask?
I mean, that's OK of course.
To each his/her own.
I actually like the story and therefore choose to believe it.
Maybe that makes me naieve.
It's very likely that it ain't true and just made up for fun.
But o well, then at least I enjoyed it!

U2Kitten said:
Are you sure? They had only been a band for four months at that time, I don't think they were ready for gigs.:eyebrow:

Uhm, u2Kitten, I think you might have misunderstood me a little there.
The entire last part is me talking about the Radiators from Space.
Not about U2.

U2Kitten said:
Oh that is the worst yet! That is NOT U2! :tsk:

Including the picture/photo.
I know that that is NOT u2.
(No need to have 85 Plebans tell me that. ;)
Yeah, I read what you wrote before the edit).
Nor did I say that it was them.

These are the Radiators from Space.
I got all the info from their website (gig history and photo: http://www.theradiators.tv/) and what I was trying to do, was proof that some information out of Mr. O'Reilly's story seems to fit very well with the band/group: the Radiators from Space
Much better than with u2.

I mean:

1) there's the audience walking out at an earlier gig.
2) a gig at Moran's Hotel
3) a March gig at University College (just like Mr. O'Reilly mentioned)
4) A picture with the band with one of them in bright red pants (which Mr. O'Reilly talks about too).

The only thing that isn't correct there is the year.

And based on that photo of the Radiators, there are some similarities between Bono and the guy in the red pants (once again not saying that that guy is B).
But I can see how someone could possible mix things up there.

U2Kitten said:
1babyband-vi.jpg


U2 1978 (note Bono's hair)

Yeah, it looks shorter than normal to me :wink:
 
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