This is the Vertigo Tour, not the African awareness tour

[mistafadedglory]

These post, mine included are getting a bit long winded.
iwill be brief, the central issue here is-
more often than not;
- THE UN IS A BIG PART OF THE PROBLEM
- THE US IS A BIG PART OF THE SOLUTION.

The UN gets a free pass, the US gets criticzed as a part of popular sport.
it is always glanced over.
Where is the world outrage over,
the oil for food scam? biggest hiest in history.
UN workers sexually exploiting women in africa
countires like iran and iraq getting to sit on the human rights commission.

the UN has no visibilty or accountability.
to simply respond that americans don't do this or shold do that,
does not address the real issue, and reaks of hypocrisy when
they choose to do something that any country on the security
council does not like.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

this thread is slowly but surely turning into FYM...

 

[bonoed]

Amazing how there was a thread on this, when the actual "African" experience is really short, and very meaningful. I love the fact that they have the UN resolutions up on the screen. I love Bono's blindfold, and his message during "BTBS."

The UN isn't "a big part of the problem" that's quoting Shlock nonnews station. A big part of the problem is U.S. Imperialism, and the incompetent regime in WDC.

Did anybody do the text messaging, and when do they show the names on the screen?

 

[P-T-P]

In respect of the Africa issue....

The US COULD BE a big part of the solution, at present it is not.

As to the UN, oil for food and so on, certainly there are serious problems, but the Africa situation is such that the solution to it should not be bound up in the politics of other things. Stopping 3000 people needlessly dying every day should not be conditional on anything other than African governments responding to assistance by putting their house in order.

Africa and the UN are two seperate issues and should be dealt with seperately.

 

[cardosino]

In respect of the Africa issue....

The US COULD BE a big part of the solution, at present it is not.

As to the UN, oil for food and so on, certainly there are serious problems, but the Africa situation is such that the solution to it should not be bound up in the politics of other things. Stopping 3000 people needlessly dying every day should not be conditional on anything other than African governments responding to assistance by putting their house in order.

Africa and the UN are two seperate issues and should be dealt with seperately.

I don't see how the US and Europe are really reacting any differently to the African crisis, the EEC trade barriers will ensure that trading with Africa will nto eb done on a level playing field.

As for US Imperialism someone else pointe dto, you have to be kidding me ! - It's European imperialism that is to blame for the many residual problems of Africa, Asia and South America.

Dutch, Italian, French, British, German, Russian.........If anyone should be ponying up more for 3rd world problems they are who should be doing it. The US is a big and easy target, but it's frequently the wrong one, many of the trading practices an dlaws in the 3rd world are there as a result of European colonial imperialism.

 

[Bono's shades]

I listened to the audio from San Diego 1, and it seems to be Bono's main message is we are all equal, no matter where we live. So how is this different from what he has been talking about and singing about all along?

 

[P-T-P]

cardosino

Totally agree that Euro trade barriers are a part of the problem, not that the US doesn't have any of it's own. The reason the US gets most criticism is because it's contributions as a % of GDP consistently fall below other nations.

Sometihng else to take note of though is that it's not as if the US is alone in getting criticized, perhaps it feels that way to you guys, but I can assure you that leaders here get as much attention on the issue as in the US.

Of course there's not much to be gained from Bono telling 20,000 people in San Diego to call up Tony Blair is there?

Also, Blair and Brown have put forward a proposal similar to the Marshall Plan for Africa and the US is already opposing a key part of it.

It's a global issue for sure, but the US is keen to act as a global leader in some areas but in this particular one, it's been lacking.

 

[mistafadedglory]

again glancing over the debacle that is the UN.

measuring a countries contribution based on $$$
contributed is not an accurate representation, especially
if some countries contribute far more in terms of man power
and technical assitance than other nations.
and the idea the idea that problems are better solved
by the more $$$ you throw at them is flawed, and does nothing
but reduce the issue to a pissing contest over who is donating
more $$$.
if you really think that it is simply a matter of money -
your time might be better spent telling all these arrogant
diplomats in NYC who refuse to pay their parking tickets
to pay up.

you can't have it both ways-
if you feel that the US is not making a big enough sacrafice
its a lack of leadership?
but when they do something and is willing to make a sacrafice that the UN won't sign off onit's arrogant.
hypocrisy.

 

[P-T-P]

mistafadedglory

Due respect, you're putting arguments in my mouth that I've never made and sometimes they're completely the opposite of what I'm saying.

I agree, simply $$$ is not an answer. 100% agree with that point.

Certainly have not criticized the US on anything the UN didn't sign off on and certainly didn't call it arrogant hypocrasy.

I totally think the US gets unduly criticized in some areas, but the African issue, which is what this thread is about, isn't one of them. The criticism levvied at the US government in it's response to the emergency that is Africa is warranted.

And it's not like people are even saying "Big Bad USA" either, just, "You're the world leader here and you could do a little more."

Focusing on the Africa issue here is not glossing over the UN problems, just the UN problems are an entirely different kettle of fish and I personally feel that the Africa situation is such that it warrants being dealt with solely on its own.

 

[cardosino]

mistafadedglory

Due respect, you're putting arguments in my mouth that I've never made and sometimes they're completely the opposite of what I'm saying.

I agree, simply $$$ is not an answer. 100% agree with that point.

Certainly have not criticized the US on anything the UN didn't sign off on and certainly didn't call it arrogant hypocrasy.

I totally think the US gets unduly criticized in some areas, but the African issue, which is what this thread is about, isn't one of them. The criticism levvied at the US government in it's response to the emergency that is Africa is warranted.

And it's not like people are even saying "Big Bad USA" either, just, "You're the world leader here and you could do a little more."

And yet I don't hear too many people say, "hey, Europe, you're the guys who f**ked the continent up in the first place, change your trading laws and do something other than just give out money"

 

[mistafadedglory]

And yet I don't hear too many people say, "hey, Europe, you're the guys who f**ked the continent up in the first place, change your trading laws and do something other than just give out money"

Well said!!!

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

F...Y...M...

move-a-roonie

 

[beli]

this thread is slowly but surely turning into FYM...

No it's not. There is a delightful lack of bible quotes in this thread.

 

[P-T-P]

mistafadedglory

Due respect, you're putting arguments in my mouth that I've never made and sometimes they're completely the opposite of what I'm saying.

I agree, simply $$$ is not an answer. 100% agree with that point.

Certainly have not criticized the US on anything the UN didn't sign off on and certainly didn't call it arrogant hypocrasy.

I totally think the US gets unduly criticized in some areas, but the African issue, which is what this thread is about, isn't one of them. The criticism levvied at the US government in it's response to the emergency that is Africa is warranted.

And it's not like people are even saying "Big Bad USA" either, just, "You're the world leader here and you could do a little more."

Focusing on the Africa issue here is not glossing over the UN problems, just the UN problems are an entirely different kettle of fish and I personally feel that the Africa situation is such that it warrants being dealt with solely on its own.

Maybe 'cause there are people actually doing things about it?

The trade barriers are a part of the problem, but the EU is far from alone in trade restrictions. And on top of restrictions there's also subsdies, something the EU is also guilty of, as is the US.

http :// news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4229979.stm

http: // news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/africa/2005/africa/default.stm

http :// news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4337853.stm

Seems as much as anything the beef for some people here is simply that the US is getting critisized. Here's the news, despite what you may think, there's plenty of crap gets aimed at the UK, the EU and so on about these things too, you just don't get to hear about it because either your news services don't cover it or you aren't interested in looking.

 

[caragriff]

regardless of what side you are on, i think the fact that there is all this discussion in this thread proves that bono speaking up in his concerts makes a difference. even if it annoys you to no end that he is preaching to us at a concert we paid him a lot of money to go -- you have to admit, he has achieved something siginificant if a debate about africa and third world poverty has started amongst people after the show.

and if part of your argument in such debate might include the opinion that bono is a hypocrite, i'm sure he could care less.

provoking a reaction in you is his goal.

go bono go......

 

[boystupidboy]

I've missed the last couple of gigs so can anyone tell me if Bono is still harping on about Africa? IMO he is ruining a classic u2 tune(one)by shouting about the 'dark' continent.I do hope he wont be preaching when i see u2 in Manchester

 

[xellente]

he's still talking about it...get used to it..its not going away...

 

[Aardvark747]

I've missed the last couple of gigs so can anyone tell me if Bono is still harping on about Africa? IMO he is ruining a classic u2 tune(one)by shouting about the 'dark' continent.I do hope he wont be preaching when i see u2 in Manchester

Shit post

 

[odowdpa]

I think Bono is overdoing it at the shows, just my opinion.

 

[boystupidboy]

Shit post

shitier post

 

[boystupidboy]

I think Bono is overdoing it at the shows, just my opinion.

Thankyou,at least i'm not the only one who thinks that.

 

[nathan1977]

No it's not. There is a delightful lack of bible quotes in this thread.

And a more delightful lack of debate about the pros and cons of homosexuality.

The title of this thread is head-slappingly stupid.

Is the Africa moment any more "obnoxious" than Bono's electrifying speech about Enniskillen on the JT tour? The Sarajevo moment during Zooropa? The Sarajevo concert during PopMart? "One" at the Millenium concert, and the talk about dropping the debt? Bono's speeches about 9/11? The Drop the Debt stuff during Elevation?

Some of us admire people who are willing to wear their compassion, their heart on their sleeve.

If you don't like it, go back to 1988 and find someone who cares.

 

[Bono's shades]

I've missed the last couple of gigs so can anyone tell me if Bono is still harping on about Africa? IMO he is ruining a classic u2 tune(one)by shouting about the 'dark' continent.I do hope he wont be preaching when i see u2 in Manchester

Thanks for demonstrating just why Bono feels he needs to make people more aware of what's going on in Africa.

By the way, if you actually listened to the lyrics of that classic song you refer to, you would realize Bono is just trying to put into practice what he's been singing about all these years: "One life, but we're not the same, we get to carry each other, carry each other."

 

[frozenmuze04]

I love quoting long posts like that for no reason.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Some much needed levity in the thread.

I'm not thrilled with the new intro to Streets and I like the red and everything, but yeah, I mean, like Africa wasn't going to be mentioned on this tour? Please.

It's interesting, though - someone mentioned the level of apathy in America - it seems to be a disturbing trend. I mean, I saw R.E.M. last fall, NOT on the VFC tour but on their own headlining tour, and when Stipe began mentioning something about the upcoming election, they actually started getting booed - by a crowd that was VERY good and responsive before. I think that there really are a large portion of American concert audiences these days who just want bands to "stand up there and play them songs I know!" It's pretty disheartening, really, but I wonder if it really it is a trend that's increasing. I hope it doesn't cause a kind of backlash against Bono/U2.

I also think that the tone of the new album is pretty up, pretty rock, and I feel like these shows so far have been very dark (like Larry said they would be, I know), and I wonder if it suits the material. Probably a thought for another thread, but I feel at times from listening to the boots like Bono isn't fully present in this tour yet. Probably just getting into the swing of the tour, though.

 

[Ellay]

I've missed the last couple of gigs so can anyone tell me if Bono is still harping on about Africa? IMO he is ruining a classic u2 tune(one)by shouting about the 'dark' continent.I do hope he wont be preaching when i see u2 in Manchester

Heard a singer on the radio late last night

He says he's gonna kick the darkness

'til it bleeds daylight

 

[Axver]

Random thought: I think I'd rather enjoy an African awareness tour.

 

[H]

I think Bono is overdoing it at the shows, just my opinion.

I agree.

 

[Anu]

It's interesting, though - someone mentioned the level of apathy in America - it seems to be a disturbing trend. I mean, I saw R.E.M. last fall, NOT on the VFC tour but on their own headlining tour, and when Stipe began mentioning something about the upcoming election, they actually started getting booed - by a crowd that was VERY good and responsive before.

If anyone near me at these shows boos Bono or the human rights video or any of my man's message moments, he/she won't just have Bono's preaching to deal with . . . But we should be prepared that some people want U2 to "rock out" and will tolerate all the Jesus in the show (All, Yahweh, 40) but will freak out when Bono actually suggests Americans follow Christ's teachings in relation to the poor. (It seems most Americans think it says "my blingdom come" in the Lord's prayer).
When I saw Elevation in Kentucky and the band used a video clip before "Bullet," several fans near me completely missed the point of the Charelton Heston sample and were actually kneejerk cheering for Heston!! Now Bono's no Michael Moore, but the use of the clip before Bullet was not a "pro-gun" statement by U2.
The REM story is truly sad. But bless Stipe, Mills, and Buck for staying on message!! For us Americans, apathy might be emotionally more accessible than the anger we should all be feeling at the crooked and corrupt Keystone Kops who have hijacked America. Apathy may actually be an understandable and legit response to the untrammeled horror of the world, but it appears selfish when all we're being asked to do is throw a few crumbs from our table to the billions dying and starving and suffering under the boot of our unsustainable lifestyle.
love, Anu

 

[Ellay]

When I saw Elevation in Kentucky and the band used a video clip before "Bullet," several fans near me completely missed the point of the Charelton Heston sample and were actually kneejerk cheering for Heston!! Now Bono's no Michael Moore, but the use of the clip before Bullet was not a "pro-gun" statement by U2.

Also worth mentioning here that back in the 80's. Bono's flag waving during Sunday Bloody Sunday was mistaken as their support for the republican movement in Ireland.

 

[PowerSurge]

I think Bono is overdoing it at the shows, just my opinion.

Then define: "Over doing it"


what would be "doing it JUST right?"



If you just want to hear the songs played as they are on the album...go home, turn off the lights, buy a strobe light and smoke machine and put the U2 catalogue on your CD changer on random repeat. That way you can save yourself a ton of money and hassle, but still get that "safe sterile concert feel". You know, the concerts where bands take no chances and just play music. I'm sure your aware of these bands...they are all of the ones that are NOT in the Rock Hall of Fame and never will be.



...just my opinion