Lottery: Diehards not excited enough, therefore lottery in effect!

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While i see the point of a lottery, i feel that is disappoints a lot more then rewards. To sit there all day and NOT KNOW where you will be that night is shit! They should say, first 150 people then we will lottery off the rest of you. That way, the first 150 are happy they got up at 5am or stayed the night and the people waiting the rest of the day still have a chance. Because to a casual fan turning up at 6pm to get inside the ellipse is like OMG WOW, but to not, well they are a casual fan, either way they'll see the show you know? But to a massive fan who waited all day to get second row OUTSIDE the ellipse, major disappointment!


Personally i will be really shitty if there is a lottery in Australia, but as we are having stadiums, will it go europe way and just be like the first whateveR? Is that what they did then?
 
U2Girl1978 said:



That's a tad bit harsh don't you think? :|

Meh, I was going to check it, but if he actually thinks the band are spending all their time at the beach so they don't have to play any new songs, he's deluded. Especially considering he's supposed to be the "king of setlists".
 
What else will I say, an arrogant person? It just doesn't go together like "arrogant prick".

Axver, nothing against you, just that the words "arrogant prick" go better together. Like Please -> Streets. :wink:
 
WildHoneyAlways said:
Yes, the "new faces" excuse is all well and good. But Why is it that the band doesn't seem to mind pulling the same die hard ladies up for dances?

yes, i agree that this is odd. the only thing i can think of is that it's Bono who is pulling up repeat die hards, not the rest of the band members- and certainly not Paul McGuinness. so maybe there's a difference of opinion amongst the entire U2 camp... :shrug: i guess we'll never really know. :wink:
 
*Ally* said:


yes, i agree that this is odd. the only thing i can think of is that it's Bono who is pulling up repeat die hards, not the rest of the band members- and certainly not Paul McGuinness. so maybe there's a difference of opinion amongst the entire U2 camp... :shrug: i guess we'll never really know. :wink:

The girl who was pulled up at Tampa, told my wife before the show that she had been front and center, on the rail, for Boston, Miami and then of course Tampa and I guess it finally paid off. My wife, who was standing behind her, in the pseudo 1st/2nd row, on the little step, said Bono was giving her all the attention out of everyone who was in the front row
 
Bodnex said:


You do realise that the band are spending roughly a year away from home for you lot, working their arses off. They don't have to work any more for someone listening in to concerts behind a computer screen.

You arrogant prick. :|

:huh:

You want to know what I'm talking about? It's no secret that less than two weeks into the third leg, after having a whole month off, U2 had a break between 25 September and 3 October and spent it relaxing in Mexico. Yeah, so what that they botched Walk On in Chicago or had just debuted Crumbs and could use some time on it?

We all know U2 are fond of their holidays.

And they're the ones who choose to tour and spend a year away from home. It's also debatable whether they spend a year away from home as they have houses scattered around the world, from Los Angeles to Dublin to NYC to Nice.

I cannot see how I am an "arrogant prick" by stating this. It's not as if I demanded anything. You're the one making assumptions about my character and I'd appreciate it if you'd stop.
 
LyricalDrug said:
At the Boston Elevation show, which was being filmed for the DVD, some idiotic "hardcore" fans thought it would be cute to have a retarded little "protest" about ticket line-up procedures, by sitting down and facing away from the band during the first couple of songs.

I'm sure after that little stunt, the band decided enough was enough.

:yes: Yes, lovely behaviour sported by the die hards that night definitely helped with the lottery, apart from giving the chance to those who can't or won't spend hours of lining up just to be in first row.
 
Axver said:


:huh:

You want to know what I'm talking about? It's no secret that less than two weeks into the third leg, after having a whole month off, U2 had a break between 25 September and 3 October and spent it relaxing in Mexico. Yeah, so what that they botched Walk On in Chicago or had just debuted Crumbs and could use some time on it?

We all know U2 are fond of their holidays.

And they're the ones who choose to tour and spend a year away from home. It's also debatable whether they spend a year away from home as they have houses scattered around the world, from Los Angeles to Dublin to NYC to Nice.

I cannot see how I am an "arrogant prick" by stating this. It's not as if I demanded anything. You're the one making assumptions about my character and I'd appreciate it if you'd stop.

No, you're being a prick because you are suggesting that U2 should spend more time on new songs rehearsing when you know that this is the tour where U2 has played the most songs, but you still want more songs (what is it, 44/45 different songs this tour? With another leg of the tour still to go). And you know that The Edge's daughter was having health problems before the start of the tour, he could have called the whole thing off (and I'm surprised, but happy, that he didn't). U2 have could just play the same setlist every night with no variation at all (like they did in Europe) but they haven't, debuting songs like Fast Cars, Crumbs, The First Time and Walk On. U2 are middle-aged now, they have families to think of. Maybe, instead of rehearshing and playing non-stop, they'd like some time with them?

I don't even know why you're complaining about this. U2 don't play for people that listen to shows behind a computer, they play for those at the show. How many people go to over 5 shows a year? Not too many, I'd bet (in the grand scheme of things).

EDIT: "Arrogant prick" was probably out of line; you weren't arrogant, but you were definitely being an arse.
 
I think someone mentioned it earlier in the thread, but to make both sides happy, U2 should allow the first 150-200 people in the ellipse, then make the remaining spots lottery spots. This way, the diehard fan who spent all night in a tent can be in the ellipse and a person who couldn't get in line until 5:00 can also be in the ellipse. I think that is truly the fair way to do it because to have people who are willing to stay outside to be close to your band get placed outside the ellipse is simply unfair to those people.
 
Bodnex said:
No, you're being a prick because you are suggesting that U2 should spend more time on new songs rehearsing when you know that this is the tour where U2 has played the most songs, but you still want more songs (what is it, 44/45 different songs this tour? With another leg of the tour still to go).

Uh, no. You're totally wrong.

1. I never suggested U2 need to play more songs. Someone else said U2 could solve the problem of "bored diehards" by varying the sets more and I said that'd require more effort on U2's behalf.
2. Varied setlists does not necessarily equal more songs. Throw the set in a blender and see what it spits out. A different order is surprising, not to mention very feasible in parts.


And you know that The Edge's daughter was having health problems before the start of the tour, he could have called the whole thing off (and I'm surprised, but happy, that he didn't). [...] U2 are middle-aged now, they have families to think of. Maybe, instead of rehearshing and playing non-stop, they'd like some time with them?

So if they don't want to tour, they shouldn't tour. I'm bloody happy they're touring and thrilled at the prospect of shows down here. I really don't see what this has got to do with anything. All I said is that U2 would have to put in a bit more effort if they want to vary their sets!

I don't even know why you're complaining about this. U2 don't play for people that listen to shows behind a computer, they play for those at the show. How many people go to over 5 shows a year? Not too many, I'd bet (in the grand scheme of things).

I have no idea what you're going on about here. We're not talking about fans sitting at home. We're talking about how the band had problems with diehards who followed the band around to multiple shows, took the front row, and supposedly killed the energy because they could easily predict the set and were not excited. Someone then said that instead of a lottery to randomise who's in the ellipse, U2 could solve the excitement problem by varying their sets.
 
You know how many people follow the band around for more than 10+ shows? 20 or 30 at the most? Out of 300-400 people inside the ellipse or heart? So Paul and the band think these 20 or 30 diehards inside the heart killed the atmosphere more than 200 or so causal fans in the ellipse do now?

I'm sorry but the more I think about it the more stupid their reasons for the lottery become. If they said they wanted it so it would give everybody a chance, then I could understand that a bit more. But to say the 20 or 30 diehards in the heart killed the atmosphere because they knew what was coming? Gimme a break.
 
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playing devils advocate with the lottery, what about the diehards that are diehards but dont have the time to sit outside all day and line up at 7 am and have to go to school or work? they shouldnt have a chance to get into the ellipse? by the time the work or school day ends and you show up around 4-5 you are already screwed if there isn't a lottery.
 
Chizip said:
You know how many people follow the band around for more than 10+ shows? 20 or 30 at the most? Out of 300-400 people inside the ellipse or heart? So Paul and the band think these 20 or 30 diehards inside the heart kill the atmosphere more than 200 or so causal fans, who don't know half the songs, in the ellipse now because of the lottery?

I'm sorry but the more I think about it the more stupid their reasons for the lottery become. If they said they wanted it so it would give everybody a chance, then I could understand that a bit more. But to say the 20 or 30 diehards in the heart killed the atmosphere because they knew what was coming? Gimme a break.

I completely agree, did they really think that by removing the diehard fans who actually know the songs and replacing them with all the other people that the atmosphere would get better?
















I smell a conspiracy against the diehard fan...:eyebrow:

^That's sarcastic for anyone who thought I was being serious:wink:
 
StlElevation said:
playing devils advocate with the lottery, what about the diehards that are diehards but dont have the time to sit outside all day and line up at 7 am and have to go to school or work? they shouldnt have a chance to get into the ellipse? by the time the work or school day ends and you show up around 4-5 you are already screwed if there isn't a lottery.

This is why the first 150-200 people in line get into the ellipse, but then, the rest of available spots are done in lottery fashion, it's the best of both worlds!
 
StlElevation said:
playing devils advocate with the lottery, what about the diehards that are diehards but dont have the time to sit outside all day and line up at 7 am and have to go to school or work? they shouldnt have a chance to get into the ellipse? by the time the work or school day ends and you show up around 4-5 you are already screwed if there isn't a lottery.

if Paul had come out and given a reason like this, then fine, i'd understand it a bit more. but the reason he gave on the DVD is just idiotic, and is almost a slap in the face.
 
It's almost as if Paul is saying that they don't really appreciate the effort that some people make to come to as many shows as possible and be that close...
 
onebloodonelife said:


This is why the first 150-200 people in line get into the ellipse, but then, the rest of available spots are done in lottery fashion, it's the best of both worlds!


true, but by 4:30-6 PM the line is far deeper than 200 people and if youre not against the rail on the outside of the ellipse you might as well be at the end of the arena so you can at least see the light show better.


Chizip said:


if Paul had come out and given a reason like this, then fine, i'd understand it a bit more. but the reason he gave on the DVD is just idiotic, and is almost a slap in the face.


fair enough. i dont particularly like the lottery but i dont mind it either. the reason given is a bit silly but there are other decent reasons why the lottery isn't bad, such as mine. not all the diehards can wait all day, some people do have jobs that require them to be there, or some diehards also have exams to take or classes to go to that they can't miss necesiarly. either way, im cool with it lottery or no lottery.
 
onebloodonelife said:
It's almost as if Paul is saying that they don't really appreciate the effort that some people make to come to as many shows as possible and be that close...

i think you're reading too far into it.
 
Axver said:


Uh, no. You're totally wrong.

1. I never suggested U2 need to play more songs. Someone else said U2 could solve the problem of "bored diehards" by varying the sets more and I said that'd require more effort on U2's behalf.
2. Varied setlists does not necessarily equal more songs. Throw the set in a blender and see what it spits out. A different order is surprising, not to mention very feasible in parts.

1 and 2 don't really go together, first of all you're saying that varying the sets more would require more effort from U2, and then you're saying that only a different order would do, surely requiring little to no effort. But we both know that a different order would not suit the show at all.

A typical Vertigo show isn't a collection of songs, that could be played in any order. Something like Zoo Station can only open an encore (which makes it more surprising that U2 used it in the middle of a set in the early shows), COBL is a fantastic opener, and the best they have for this tour, and LAPOE->SBS->Bullet is (IMO) awesome. U2 have spent the whole tour refining this formula for their shows (Couple of Bomb songs -> Older stuff -> MD/Sometimes/LAPOE/SBS/Bullet/MS/Pride/Streets/One -> Encores). They could mix this up, but it wouldn't have the same impact, especially not for newcomers. Which is, let's face it, who U2 play for.

But you're right, in some parts variation is very feasible, which is what we're getting mainly in the encores.

Atlanta I
Until The End Of The World
The Fly
With Or Without You
Stuck In A Moment You Can't Get Out Of
Yahweh
All Because Of You
40

Tampa
The First Time
Stuck In A Moment You Can't Get Out Of
With Or Without You
All Because Of You
Yahweh
40

Miami II
Until The End Of The World
The Fly
With Or Without You
All Because Of You
Walk On
Bad

Miami I
Stuck In A Moment You Can't Get Out Of
Who's Gonna Ride Your Wild Horses
With Or Without You
All Because Of You
Yahweh
40

I'd say that's prett varied, both with new songs and different orders. And then with the opening 6 songs:


Atlanta I
City Of Blinding Lights
Vertigo / Rockaway Beach (snippet) / Rock 'N' Roll ****** (snippet)
Elevation
Beautiful Day / Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (snippet) / Blackbird (snippet)
I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For / In A Little While (snippet)
Mysterious Ways

Tampa
City Of Blinding Lights
Vertigo
Elevation
Mysterious Ways
Until The End Of The World
I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For / In A Little While (snippet)
Beautiful Day / Many Rivers To Cross (snippet)

Miami II
City Of Blinding Lights
Vertigo
Elevation
I Will Follow
The Electric Co.
I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For
Beautiful Day / Blackbird (snippet)

Miami I
City Of Blinding Lights
Vertigo
Elevation
Mysterious Ways
Until The End Of The World
I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For / In A Little While (snippet)
Beautiful Day / Here Comes The Sun (snippet)

Again, quite a few changes, not nearly as much as the encores though.

NB: I posted this because you said U2 needed some variation, here's some variation. But it isn't really relative to the topic.

So if they don't want to tour, they shouldn't tour. I'm bloody happy they're touring and thrilled at the prospect of shows down here. I really don't see what this has got to do with anything. All I said is that U2 would have to put in a bit more effort if they want to vary their sets!


I must have misunderstood then, as "But this requires more effort on U2's behalf. They may have to have less holidays to the beach. :|" sounds like if you saw U2, and they played a normal set, you'd be disappointed. Or you were saying that U2 should play for people not at the arena as well, who only read the setlists. So remember, they might not be playing at all.

I have no idea what you're going on about here. We're not talking about fans sitting at home. We're talking about how the band had problems with diehards who followed the band around to multiple shows, took the front row, and supposedly killed the energy because they could easily predict the set and were not excited. Someone then said that instead of a lottery to randomise who's in the ellipse, U2 could solve the excitement problem by varying their sets.

But like I said before, a Vertigo show is a tight show, mixing up the sets too much would result in a mismash of ideas, and would sound horrible (say Vertigo -> COBL). Anyone who goes to a Vertigo show (who has been to one before) knows that the main set will have few (if any) changes in it.

But, for varying sets, see above. For U2, this is quite a bit of variation. Maybe not enought for you though.

But this whole argument is totally irrelevant to the topic, and I propose we stop it now.
 
*Ally* said:


i really think that the boston protest has a lot to do with the lottery as well. and paul mcguiness's reasons for supporting the lottery could very well be different from larry's, or bono's, or edge's, etc.

btw, i don't recall bono ever yelling at the audience during one of the Elevation shows like he did at the 10/8/05 show at MSG...

He yelled at the audience?
When? Why?
Or is this the yelling at the guy with the phone?
 
StlElevation said:
playing devils advocate with the lottery, what about the diehards that are diehards but dont have the time to sit outside all day and line up at 7 am and have to go to school or work? they shouldnt have a chance to get into the ellipse? by the time the work or school day ends and you show up around 4-5 you are already screwed if there isn't a lottery.

i fucking HATE this argument. i am a single, full-time working mother, who, at the time of the san diego show didn't even own a car that would make it the four hundred miles it would take to get me to the show.

but i GOT THERE.

on easter sunday, no less.

if you want it bad enough, you GET THERE.

but the thing that will ALWAYS piss me off the most about that infernal, bullshit lottery of theirs was the fact that they couldn't even be bothered to tell us before we got to the opening show that there was going to be one. we slept in cars, on sidewalks, and in chairs, and at nearly what, nine o'clock the next morning they came out and made the announcement.

and as for the post about the band working their asses off for a year playing shows all over the world, so what? i would LOVE to be able to work my ass off for one year and then sit on it for six. they have huge homes, beautiful cars, and incredible lifestyles that the essentially, we fans have paid for. i don't feel sorry for them one bit. boo hoo, they toured for a year. when do you suppose they'll tour again? 2010? ...if we're lucky?

and yes, there are lots and lots of fans who see more than five shows on one tour. i myself have managed to get myself to four, two of which were hundreds of miles from where i live, even with the obstacles that StlElevation posted about.
 
bonosgirl84 said:


i fucking HATE this argument. i am a single, full-time working mother, who, at the time of the san diego show didn't even own a car that would make it the four hundred miles it would take to get me to the show.

but i GOT THERE.

on easter sunday, no less.

if you want it bad enough, you GET THERE.

but the thing that will ALWAYS piss me off the most about that infernal, bullshit lottery of theirs was the fact that they couldn't even be bothered to tell us before we got to the opening show that there was going to be one. we slept in cars, on sidewalks, and in chairs, and at nearly what, nine o'clock the next morning they came out and made the announcement.

and as for the post about the band working their asses off for a year playing shows all over the world, so what? i would LOVE to be able to work my ass off for one year and then sit on it for six. they have huge homes, beautiful cars, and incredible lifestyles that the essentially, we fans have paid for. i don't feel sorry for them one bit. boo hoo, they toured for a year. when do you suppose they'll tour again? 2010? ...if we're lucky?

and yes, there are lots and lots of fans who see more than five shows on one tour. i myself have managed to get myself to four, two of which were hundreds of miles from where i live, even with the obstacles that StlElevation posted about.

im not saying i like the lottery really im indifferent to it- in fact ive been screwed over by it as ive gotten in GA line at 8:30 am twice before and haven't gotten in the ellipse, and overall im 0-3 on the ellipse going. im just saying i think that is a better reason than the reason given. im glad you were able to make it and get there really early, but its not possible for everybody to overcome all their obstacles like you were. on a show that would be around christmas time in the middle of the working week, say a thursday or wednesday, not everybody can get the time off from work and line up at 5 AM or when ever. im just saying i think that is a better reason than the diehards dont bring enough energy.

im one of those fans thats seeing them more than 5 times, ive seen them 18 times so far this tour and am going at least 8-9 more times, so i can't really complain about the lottery too much. i dont really like ga that much anyway, but when i have gone i haven't gotten into the ellipse and it sucked getting up early and not getting in, but thats the way it goes i guess. im not complaining mainly because im fortuante enough to see so many shows, and i can honestly see the pros and cons of having the lottery.
 
The funniest thing is that people complain that being on the front rail is a BAD thing...

people need to learn that the ellipse is not GA. The floor is GA and GA rules apply.... The ellipse is a special section that is lottery driven... consider yourself lucky if you get in, but don't be pissed if you don't... If you get in line at 5AM you'll be front row on the rail... be happy... if you get scanned into the ellipse... be happier. :wink:
 
bonosgirl84 said:


i fucking HATE this argument. i am a single, full-time working mother, who, at the time of the san diego show didn't even own a car that would make it the four hundred miles it would take to get me to the show.

but i GOT THERE.

on easter sunday, no less.

if you want it bad enough, you GET THERE.

but the thing that will ALWAYS piss me off the most about that infernal, bullshit lottery of theirs was the fact that they couldn't even be bothered to tell us before we got to the opening show that there was going to be one. we slept in cars, on sidewalks, and in chairs, and at nearly what, nine o'clock the next morning they came out and made the announcement.

and as for the post about the band working their asses off for a year playing shows all over the world, so what? i would LOVE to be able to work my ass off for one year and then sit on it for six. they have huge homes, beautiful cars, and incredible lifestyles that the essentially, we fans have paid for. i don't feel sorry for them one bit. boo hoo, they toured for a year. when do you suppose they'll tour again? 2010? ...if we're lucky?

and yes, there are lots and lots of fans who see more than five shows on one tour. i myself have managed to get myself to four, two of which were hundreds of miles from where i live, even with the obstacles that StlElevation posted about.

I dont feel sorry for the band either. BUT, they dont have to tour. I dont think they owe us anything either. They have already provided great music and done many outstanding tours. They could retire now and would be set for life. This tour almost didnt even happen. Nobody forced anyone to buy the past albums or attend those tours or forced anyone to go to the current tour. They enjoy it obviously and its something to give back to the fans and they make a bit of cash also. Being away from home and living in a hotel for over a year, regardless of how luxurious it is, has got to be a bit draining though. There is a simple way to get things changed though. Dont buy the tickets. If shows arent selling out and if its because of the lottery I would bet the lottery would get changed. Thing is, for most fans, its not that big of a deal and they just want to be there.

Its not like they are saying, OH, you have been to 8 shows your not in the ellipse either. You still have as much shot as anyone else. I'm also indifferent to the lottery. There are pros and cons to it and I think its about an equal argument either way. So it comes down to what the band and their management want. From their perspective obviously the lottery is better. :shrug: For N. American tours I think its hear to stay as long as the stage set up is something similiar on future tours. But I'm sure we will all continue to argue about it! :laugh:
 
u2wedge said:
Per Paul McGuinness in the bonus DVD, he says pretty much that because the diehard fans were in line early and therefore in the heart every night during the Elevation tour that they knew 'the setlist routine' and therefore did not have the energy of a 'fresh crowd'. All along I thought it was about giving everyone a shot, but according to Paul M. it's because the diehards are actually boring, or at least, un-energetic after a few shows?

What do you anti lottery folks have to say about this?

Well, I guess its now official that this was indeed a band decision. I've thought about it more and I see where they are coming from. I find it amazing that there are that many people who could actually have the money and the time to follow the tour for nearly a year.

At the same time, we have reports that the energy inside the Heart/elipse is less on this tour than last. From my position in the arena for the three arena shows I saw, I was not really in a position to tell. I was on the floor twice and in the stands once. The fourth show I saw was in Dublin at Croke Park and I was at the back of the stadium.

If this was indeed a real problem and the lottery was the cure, then I agree with the bands decision for the lottery. The band and management are of course at every show, so they know whats working and whats not.:wink:

Its disappointing because I still believe in principle the idea of first come first serve, but it appears that a small group of people with a unique situation in terms of income and time are able to go to nearly every show and I could see how that creates problems and actually robs other diehard fans of the opportunity to get inside the Heart/Elipse.

On the next tour will know if the lottery is indeed the solution if it comes back.

On another point though, is there a lottery outside North America? The stage configeration for some stadiums did not really have an elipse or heart but rather two b-stages.
 
The lottery is Rigged!!! Last night was a perfect example. I think its time for U2 fans to go against the Ellipse Lottery system.
 
Please explain your theory, Super Fan. I was there and was lucky enough to get scanned in. I don't think I noticed any rigging going on except that there were quite a few people around us getting lucky as well.
 
Its preset to scan 1 out of 5 to 7 people. Last night Alison of course reset the scanner in one of the lines. I consider that rigging the lottery. There are other instances of some rigging going on but it was so obvious last night. Only the people in the front of the line saw it and knew what was going on. I say that we should all go against the Lottery system. If you scan in take in everyone in around you, or when you go up to the scanner, distract the scanner and hit the space bar until u get Vertigo on the screen.
 
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