IMO... it's NOT "ElevationTour" part2.

[popshopper]

I'll hold judgement on the light curtains until I see them myself, given Westport's harsh criticism! However as a visual they look stunning in the photographs, particularly when used for strong graphics and blocks of colour. They are also an extremely innovative concept, just as the popmart screen was, and I'm sure they will need tweaking and perfected as the tour goes on.

Actually in european arena staging Micpixs strings and screens are pretty common. Kylie Minogue used the exact same technology on her 2003 tour and again on her current tour (I think, I've not seen the current tour). They're nice and all that but U2 seem to have opted for an extremely low resolution and density, which is nice for colour and light reinforcement.

They also don't work well outdoors or in the presence of any sort of breeze as they are very light.

I'm betting that the stadium version of this tour will involve either a popmart style fixed led screen (or a couple of smaller ones) or a series of projection screens a la REM's Monster tour.

As for the ellipse, everyone knew it was going to be the heart mk 2. The US GA health and safety rules pretty much mean that if you want standing GA you'll have to physically separate the audience in some way.

From the pictures, I'm pretty impressed by the overall aesthetic, however it's not a major leap forward as as far I can see is not using any revolutionary technology at all.

 

[Neilz]

1) No. Zoo TV was the first to have a concept.
2) No. That was Zoo TV.
3) We're not talking about other bands are we? They repeated the screen thing on Popmart.
4) Um, trabants and lemons do not equal waving a white flag.

I was saying Popmart stage borrowed A LOT of ideas from Zoo TV, I did not say the were alike. (The band themselves said they wanted to outdoo Zoo TV). Try reading more carefully next time.

Bonosleftone: it's not about who was at the show. We have all seen the pictures and can make our opinions.
This is NOT Elevation part II - the stage itself is round and lit up (the target upon which they play), which U2 didn't have before, the lightbulb curtains are new, they did not have the acoustic part. Last but not least, the setlists are completely different.
As for the oval, AGAIN, yes it is inspired from the heart. Still, it beats having a usual straight catwalk and a B-stage and it's more fresh as an idea.

Someone said this tour is like "Popmart for arenas" and those curtains reminded me of the Popmart screen, definitely.

1) We abviously disagree... Every show since the Unforgetable Fire was thought out and therefor had a concept
2) Ever seen Rattle And Hum? U2 used a catwalk and a b-stage during the outdoor stuff... In other word's, the idea was not a Zoo-TV thing!
3) We are talking 'rockshows'.. Since videoscreens are available, bands use them! U2 uses them since Zoo-TV and eversince... This has nothing to do with concepts, purely technology! Or do you also count in the spotlights for being copied on tours by U2 :-?
4) You abviously don't have a clue what you are talking about! The 3 white flag's was a genuine prop! They were used évery show for a particular song... This was thought out my friend! And sure, with Zoo-TV and Popmart the budget was higher... But a prop is a prop!

Seriously, first you say that we áll have opions. But in the next line you're saying that this is NOT Elevation part II! That's your opinion!

First you're saying that the Trabants are the same thing as the Lemon, but later you're saying that the roung 'egg' shape is in nó way the same as the 'heart'... You're really making me laugh now! The shape of the stage has nothing to do with Vertigo being different! The catwalk of Popmart had a different shape... So nothing like Zoo-TV is what you'de think :-?

Furthermore Zoo-TV hád it's outdoor version in the Outside Broadcast tour, Zooropa and Zoomerang... Popmart whas a whole different thing!

And of course.. The curtains remind me of Popmart too... Because this was a Popmart concept once! But this doesn't mean that the show itself resembles Elevation very much...

But honestly, you don't seem to know what you're talking about.. So these were my last words in this discussion

 

[U2girl]

By the way, the first time U2 used a b-stage was at one show (I forget which) on the first leg of the War Tour.

I seem to remember an interview with Willie Williams I saw once where he specifically said Bono wanted a connection with the audience (in the shape of a catwalk) since UF tour.
Obviously, we were talking about full-time stage accesories, not something used for 1 or a few shows.

If anyone took that Mirror article about huge expenses and magicians seriously... Good luck if you seriously thought U2 were ever going to up-spend Popmart.
Stage moving and audio technology (while U2 were interested, chances are it's not ready yet) were rumored, not confirmed.
Yes, Willie Williams said everyone could be a part of the show, and it IMO remains to be seen what he meant with that. Also remember they said "two different productions" (McGuiness) in arenas and stadiums.

 

[Chizip]

well what i think willie meant about someone in the last row being a part of the show was that during 40 bono had a little spotlight and he used it to shine on the crowd. so i guess if you were in the last row you could still have bono shine a spotlight on you. it was exactly the same thing he did during bullet on the elevation tour...

there were many many similiarites to elevation, but like i said, its not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[U2girl]

1) We abviously disagree... Every show since the Unforgetable Fire was thought out and therefor had a concept
2) Ever seen Rattle And Hum? U2 used a catwalk and a b-stage during the outdoor stuff... In other word's, the idea was not a Zoo-TV thing!
3) We are talking 'rockshows'.. Since videoscreens are available, bands use them! U2 uses them since Zoo-TV and eversince... This has nothing to do with concepts, purely technology! Or do you also count in the spotlights for being copied on tours by U2 :-?
4) You abviously don't have a clue what you are talking about! The 3 white flag's was a genuine prop! They were used évery show for a particular song... This was thought out my friend! And sure, with Zoo-TV and Popmart the budget was higher... But a prop is a prop!

Seriously, first you say that we áll have opions. But in the next line you're saying that this is NOT Elevation part II! That's your opinion!

First you're saying that the Trabants are the same thing as the Lemon, but later you're saying that the roung 'egg' shape is in nó way the same as the 'heart'... You're really making me laugh now! The shape of the stage has nothing to do with Vertigo being different! The catwalk of Popmart had a different shape... So nothing like Zoo-TV is what you'de think :-?

Furthermore Zoo-TV hád it's outdoor version in the Outside Broadcast tour, Zooropa and Zoomerang... Popmart whas a whole different thing!

And of course.. The curtains remind me of Popmart too... Because this was a Popmart concept once! But this doesn't mean that the show itself resembles Elevation very much...

But honestly, you don't seem to know what you're talking about.. So these were my last words in this discussion

1) We already talked about this.
2) See my previous post, as far as I know that catwalk was made for the cameras. There was NO B-stage.
3) No, we're talking about U2.
4) Waving a white flag is NOT a stage prop! Trabants and lemons are.

EXACTLY. Just like it is your opinion this is Elevation part II.

For the third time now: the egg/oval borrowed the idea from the heart. Just like the lemon was a stage prop, following the trabants on Zoo TV.
Yes it does, round stage is one of the differences, like it or not. Catwalk from Popmart, following the catwalk on Zoo TV.

Popmart used a screen, this tour uses lightbulb curtains. Clearly not the same thing is it?

 

[bathiu]

Popmart used a screen, this tour uses lightbulb curtains. Clearly not the same thing is it?

"Yes" and "No"... they are build diferent way... but both are (or with PopMart -"were") called "revolutionary LED screens".
Not to mention on close-ups of the band they look exactly the same

 

[Neilz]

1) We already talked about this.
2) See my previous post, as far as I know that catwalk was made for the cameras. There was NO B-stage.
3) No, we're talking about U2.
4) Waving a white flag is NOT a stage prop! Trabants and lemons are.

EXACTLY. Just like it is your opinion this is Elevation part II.

For the third time now: the egg/oval borrowed the idea from the heart. Just like the lemon was a stage prop, following the trabants on Zoo TV.
Yes it does, round stage is one of the differences, like it or not. Catwalk from Popmart, following the catwalk on Zoo TV.

Popmart used a screen, this tour uses lightbulb curtains. Clearly not the same thing is it?

I just can't resist to react to this kind of nonsens!

1) We already talked about this? Good argument!
2) As far as you know?... that says enough really... Think of this; on Zoo-TV they wanted make the audience to believe that the catwalk was infact for the camera's... I know this for a fact... (Mark Fisher's Staged Architecture)... So is it copied from the Joshua Tree Tour?
3) Again no argument! I'm saying that screens are part of stage technology.. As soon as you cán use them, you use them! This has nothing to do with U2's concepts...
4) I'm not only talking about waving the flag! The 3 flags are displayed in the back and used during Sunday Bloody Sundat évery show... There also was a backdrop of the War cover... These are áll props! Cheaper props... But still props!

About the opinions... I never said that this is Elevation II for a fact! I'm purely talking about my opinions and thoughts... At least I have arguments!

For the third time; The heart and the egg shape are only the same as the two catwalks from Zoo-TV and Popmart... You can't compare these 2 ramps as props like the Trabanst and the Lemon because the actual shape of the stage (catwalk's, egg's, heart's) are not props! And still... The Trabants had a whooole different function and conceptual idea then the Lemon... The only thing in common are that they are props! Just like the white flags!

And with your last comment you are really showing how much you know of U2's production! The original idea for Popmart wás a curtain LED screen! This is discussed in mány books and articles... Visit http://stufish.com for example! The LED curtain's are a Popmart concept!

And please... if you reply to this post... Come with arguments and facts please!

 

[Chizip]

there are many more similiarities between elevation and vertigo tour than popmart and zootv

and why do people get offended when people say the 2 tours are similiar when they obviously are

during the concert bono even said they decided to use their favorite parts from the elevation tour, and thats what they did

 

[Neilz]

there are many more similiarities between elevation and vertigo tour than popmart and zootv

and why do people get offended when people say the 2 tours are similiar when they obviously are

during the concert bono even said they decided to use their favorite parts from the elevation tour, and thats what they did

I totally agree!

 

[MrBTH]

Never seen anything claiming that the Popmart screen was to be an LED Curtain... And I'm quite familiar with Mark Fisher's work....

Interesting that noone has any alternatives for what the vertigo stage could have been to avoid seeming to be "Elevation part 2". Ideas mentioned like the stage moving and such are just pie in the sky. The stage would need to be hung from the ceiling for something like that to work! (unless the crowd are going to be herded around with cattle prods!!)

 

[Neilz]

Never seen anything claiming that the Popmart screen was to be an LED Curtain... And I'm quite familiar with Mark Fisher's work....

Interesting that noone has any alternatives for what the vertigo stage could have been to avoid seeming to be "Elevation part 2". Ideas mentioned like the stage moving and such are just pie in the sky. The stage would need to be hung from the ceiling for something like that to work! (unless the crowd are going to be herded around with cattle prods!!)

On year first comment.. I have Mark Fishers book 'Staged Architecture'.. There are some comments in there ánd a conceptual drawing where he points out there wás the idea of using a LED curtain as a screen... Imagin another cocktail stick on the left part of the Popmart stage and no screen... The curtain would have been hanging from these cocktail sticks with the arch in the middel... I don't know why this concept was dropt, but it may just have had to do with technology (the technology that seems to be avaible now)...

Your second comment is interesting... Personally I would have choosen for a true centre stage... This would really be something new for U2. They could put the mainstage in the middel of the egg, with the egg running both ways into the arena (so to GA area's)...

 

[Chizip]

probably another reason the tours seem similiar is because bono is pretty much exactly the same as the last tour (although im sure pleba girls could point out every little detail on how he is different)

from rattle and hum to zootv he went from long hair guy who wears suspenders with no shirt, to the fly/macphisto, and then from zootv to popmart he shaved his head and went to bonoman guy

lets face it, bono is the biggest part of the show, and we are used to him being completely different between tours, but this time he is pretty much the same

 

[Chizip]

i would have liked to have seen a small bstage in addition to the oval ramp. a ramp could have jetted out from the tip of the oval and a bstage could have been set up near the back of the floor.

that could also help out some of the crowding/pushing issues that sometimes comes with GA. it would provide more "rail space" and disperse the crowd more and lead to less pushing

they are very imaginative guys, im sure they could think of something that would be more distinctive from elevation, but i dont think they wanted to

 

[popshopper]

Actually, I've just realised I'm talking out my arse with regards to the "lightbulb" curtain. The type used by U2 is revolutionary in that it offers a 360 degree view. Kylie's tour used modular block leds in thin columns (the direct precursor to this
new technology) which only offered a "front" on view, but essentially the type of screen is the same. Kylie's screen was more fixed and had a far higher resolution and density.

 

[bathiu]

.

.

OK... it is Elevation part2

 

[popacrobat]

from the pictures i have seen of it, it is similar to elevation. is it the same? no. i wasnt there though.

they would have been insane to get rid of the GA/"Oval" deal because of the success it had, so it stays. that makes the main stage already similar to elevation. the screens above the stage? appear similar to elevation. everything else from what i have seen? doesnt look like elevation too much, especially the bulb curtains or whatever theyre called.

is it a bad thing to be similar to elevation? no. do i think its elevation part 2? no. but considering elevation was arguably their best tour, being similar to it isn't bad.

 

[Neilz]

from the pictures i have seen of it, it is similar to elevation. is it the same? no. i wasnt there though.

they would have been insane to get rid of the GA/"Oval" deal because of the success it had, so it stays. that makes the main stage already similar to elevation. the screens above the stage? appear similar to elevation. everything else from what i have seen? doesnt look like elevation too much, especially the bulb curtains or whatever theyre called.

is it a bad thing to be similar to elevation? no. do i think its elevation part 2? no. but considering elevation was arguably their best tour, being similar to it isn't bad.

The GA deal may be new in the States but is a normal thing in Europe... So you don't have to keep the oval thing to have a GA section... As I said, a centre stage would also do the trick.. You could still have the 'egg' around this pointing to both ends of the arena/stadium...

And Elevation being their best tour? I personally think Zoo-TV (especially Zooropa) is the best show that a rockband has éver done on this planet... The Joshua Tree tour also comes véry high in my book... Elevation is up there... But their bést tour? I don't know...

(ps. Too bad doctorwho and U2girl won't reply... Too bad...)

 

[Squire]

from the pictures i have seen of it, it is similar to elevation. is it the same? no. i wasnt there though.

they would have been insane to get rid of the GA/"Oval" deal because of the success it had, so it stays. that makes the main stage already similar to elevation. the screens above the stage? appear similar to elevation. everything else from what i have seen? doesnt look like elevation too much, especially the bulb curtains or whatever theyre called.

is it a bad thing to be similar to elevation? no. do i think its elevation part 2? no. but considering elevation was arguably their best tour, being similar to it isn't bad.

Arguably their best tour??

I suggest you to take that "arguably" from your sentence. Since that is your opinion, not U2 fans general opinion.

 

[MrBTH]

I still think that a centre stage set up would be very strange for U2... It'd be trying to be different for the sake of being different and causing all sorts of problems for Larry... Really, can anyone see him agreeing to sitting there spinning around in the middle for the whole concert... Well, you know what I mean, he'd have to turn at some point in the concert and I juat think it would be a little bit.... indignified!
The "heart"/"ellipse" works extremely well yet mantains the band's basic distinctive form that they have used since day one - namely Larry in the middle, Edge on the left, Adam on the right (as you look at the stage) and Bono everywhere! I just think it would seem odd to change the basic format after all these years...

 

[U2girl]

I just can't resist to react to this kind of nonsens!

1) We already talked about this? Good argument!
2) As far as you know?... that says enough really... Think of this; on Zoo-TV they wanted make the audience to believe that the catwalk was infact for the camera's... I know this for a fact... (Mark Fisher's Staged Architecture)... So is it copied from the Joshua Tree Tour?
3) Again no argument! I'm saying that screens are part of stage technology.. As soon as you cán use them, you use them! This has nothing to do with U2's concepts...
4) I'm not only talking about waving the flag! The 3 flags are displayed in the back and used during Sunday Bloody Sundat évery show... There also was a backdrop of the War cover... These are áll props! Cheaper props... But still props!

About the opinions... I never said that this is Elevation II for a fact! I'm purely talking about my opinions and thoughts... At least I have arguments!

For the third time; The heart and the egg shape are only the same as the two catwalks from Zoo-TV and Popmart... You can't compare these 2 ramps as props like the Trabanst and the Lemon because the actual shape of the stage (catwalk's, egg's, heart's) are not props! And still... The Trabants had a whooole different function and conceptual idea then the Lemon... The only thing in common are that they are props! Just like the white flags!

And with your last comment you are really showing how much you know of U2's production! The original idea for Popmart wás a curtain LED screen! This is discussed in mány books and articles... Visit http://stufish.com for example! The LED curtain's are a Popmart concept!

And please... if you reply to this post... Come with arguments and facts please!

"last words" yeah right.

1) Yes we did. Re-read this thread if you forgot. Having a few white flags on stage, or a picture of Joshua Tree does not equal having a concept.
2) Stage on Joshua Tree had a ramp because they filmed Rattle and Hum on the third leg.
Zoo TV, however, was the first U2 tour to use a catwalk and a B-stage all the time. For a self-proclaimed stage expert you should know this.
3) Why did you bring up other band, then? I know U2 will continue to use screens in some way in their future tours.
4) No. Visual accesories, not props.

And I wasn't talking about my opinion? I had arguments too, so settle down.

"For the third time; The heart and the egg shape are only the same as the two catwalks from Zoo-TV and Popmart..." :
So why was it so ok to re-use the catwalk on Popmart and so wrong to follow up the heart idea?!? Why the double standards?
I compared catwalks separately, and props separately.
Fact is, yet again, Popmart continued a lot of things from Zoo TV.

While having the same function - showing images - a big LED screen on Popmart IMO is a different idea than the LED curtains they use now.

 

[Neilz]

Sorry U2Girl, but this is hopeless... Either you don't see it or you just don't want to!

See, you say it yourself; you are only repeating yourself, but are not reacting on my arguments! When are you actually going to reply on one of my arguments instead of just stubbornly repeating yourself?

You're calling me a self-proclaimed stage expert. I actually dó think of myself as a stage expert indeed! I don't want to brag about it, but I do infact have many technical ánd conceptual drawings. Many books, many articles and many interviews. I had the privilege to talk to most of U2's stage staff including Willie, Bruce, Tim and Rocco. I have had e-mail contact with Mark Fisher and have personally build many concept stages in miniature... See i'm not talking bullshit here! All the things i'm pointing out are facts, and not opinions (like your arguments!

The only opinion that you can catch me on is that I find the Vertigo stage sort of a copy of the Elevation stage... That's all...

But you however still have the nerve claiming the LED curtains have no relation with the Popmart sceen! Listen for once; The LED curtains are an early Popmart concept! The curtains would have had the same and exact function as the big LED screen did on Popmart! This is a fact!

How self-willed can one get

 

[Yahweh]

Compare apples to apples first of all....it was the US that wanted these arena shows going back to last tour so do not complain about what the "production" is especially when comparing it to other shows by other artists in the same setting. Wait till the arena show to see how they impact the production value of this show.

 

[Chizip]

ok well i dont really want to get into this too much, but willie said that they wanted to incorporate aspects of zootv, popmart, and elevation for this show

and they did that, though most of it was from elevation.

the wall of lights behind them was obviously what he meant was the aspect similiar to popmart.

zoostation and the fly was the part that was like zootv, when the fly started "everything you know is wrong" was displayed on the wall of lights, and the zootv slogans flashed throughout the song

now that was amazing

 

[Neilz]

it was the US that wanted these arena shows going back to last tour so do not complain about what the "production" is especially when comparing it to other shows by other artists in the same setting.

I think there is another reason for the US getting arena shows... U2 really wanted to do stadium's this tour... The only problem in the US is that GA is not allowed in stadium's... Remember U2 being thrilled that the safety people gave green light with the last Elevation stage setup?

Anyways.. It was Bono who said (and I quote) "I'm sick of smelling the popcorn from the front rows" refering to the first row's in the US stadium's being the most expensive and ultimately going to the 'richer' people who just wan't a night out...

That's why they probably made the exception of playing arena's in the US... So that still the true fans with the cheapest tickets could end up in the front row...

 

[Yahweh]

The floor on Popmart was cheep too so what if you have to put chairs on the floor nobody uses them anyway.

 

[Yahweh]

I think it has more to do with the people wanting these arena shows and thats fine with me but dont complain about a massive production because its not possible in an arena.

 

[Squire]

So why was it so ok to re-use the catwalk on Popmart and so wrong to follow up the heart idea?!? Why the double standards?
Fact is, yet again, Popmart continued a lot of things from Zoo TV.

It's not ok simply because the catwalk was not the only idea taken from the previous tour.

Pop Mart DID NOT continue A LOT of things from Zoo TV!

Just like i said before, the only things that are similar are the existence of a concept, of big stage and a B-stage. The rest is completely different! The attitude was different, clothes, etc.

Do you want a proof?? Go see a picture from Zoo TV era and a picture from Pop Mart era. And you will notice two completely different sitations.

Now go pick an Elevation Tour picture and another one from Vertigo Tour (without the LEDS). And what the difference you will see? Almost none.
I said without LEDS because it seems they used it only half of the show.

 

[KUEFC09U2]

what about the lights that "chase" around the catwalk? yes they had lights on the catwalk on elevation BUT these are alot better, squire if you dont like it, just sell your tickets, you have been going on and on about this since before the tour started

 

[Neilz]

what about the lights that "chase" around the catwalk? yes they had lights on the catwalk on elevation BUT these are alot better, squire if you dont like it, just sell your tickets, you have been going on and on about this since before the tour started

It has nothing to do with not liking the Vertigo concept

We all love U2 and we all know the tour will be great! All I (and Squire, and others) am/are saying jis that Vertigo resembles Elevation... That's all...

 

[KUEFC09U2]

well its just time we put this all to rest, and people started just enjoying this ride where on, because before we know it, it will all be over and we will regret just bitching to eachother all the time, so i'll take it upon myself right now to apologise to anyone i have offended of whatever