'cellphone-carrying blockheads who won't appreciate the moment'?

[yolland]

Both u2log.com and atu2.com have posted STRONGLY worded editorials about Ticketmaster UK's one-show-per-fan policy. In reading these, I was really struck by the sense of unjust abandonment expressed by both editors--their tone is very much like that of an aggrieved wife deserted in midlife for a 'younger model.'

***Caroline at u2log.com writes:
"(I)t’s not just the touts who’ll feel the pain...They cannot prevent us from swapping, or, god forbid, buying from touts. Do I still want to? Less and less so, but christ, I still want to see them doing what they do best: play live. And I'm not ending 25 years of fandom with one lousy gig in bleedin' Brussels.

But here's a thing, lads. Next time? Write your own bloody U2 Live book. Because you've just stopped me from being able to. I think I'll be sticking that energy into someone y'all know very well.
[...]
Sure...we'll all step aside for the people that will be disappointed if they don't hear 'Sunday Bloody Sunday' played, who get pissed drunk before they've seen a note (have you ever checked out the back of a GA floor?), who scream all through Streets and leave the building during A man and a woman because those new songs are boring. Lovely fresh clueless faces. Too bad the band themselves aren't getting any younger."

[Caroline is the author of the venerable 'U2 Live' book; she also runs the official website of U2's pal Gavin Friday, to whom the 'someone y'all...' comment undoubtedly refers.]


***While Matt at atu2.com writes:
'I saw this mentioned on a mailing list today and thought for sure it was a false alarm. There's no way TicketMaster UK would tell U2's fans they can only buy four tickets to one show for the whole tour!?!? What happened to following the band around, especially in Europe where it's so much easier to do?
[...]
I'm sure that target, or whatever it's gonna be called, will be a ton of fun for the band when it's filled with cellphone-carrying blockheads who won't appreciate the moment when "Electric Co." is played for the first time in 18 years, and walk out during "Gone" to go grab another round of beers for their buddies.

Hey U2: If you don't want us around, just come out and say it."


OUCH.

Both these folks have well-earned reputations for being measured and thoughtful, so it gave me pause that even they are up at arms about all this. But then, they're both also longstanding, diehard fans who've followed U2 on the road since before today's youngest fans were born. Not unlike quite a few around here.

Are all these 'oldtimers' becoming a tiresome liability in the band's eyes as they struggle to maintain their hard-won street cred, and avoid becoming just another well-paid nostalgia band? Is this what Larry had in mind when he said 'I hope we'll be playing to a much younger America!' this time around?

I don't like to think this could be the case, but that is exactly what Caroline and Matt seem to be alleging. Although the two of them have (oddly) different notions about the listening preferences of younger/newer fans, their complaints share an unmistakable underlying tone: <<It was OUR enthusiasm, OUR money, and OUR unwavering support over the last 25 years that made U2 the biggest band in the world. And now--after years of gladly sleeping on sidewalks, willingly forking over months' worth of salaries, and doggedly collecting every single and side project--we are told that we deserve nothing more than the same crapshoot chance at A ticket, ANY ticket, that Newbie X (for whom U2 are just a 'Daaahhling!-you-MUST-see-them' jukebox) is going to get.>>

Is this merely the sour grapes of 'dinosaur fans,' delusionally--and prejudicially--thinking their recreational spending choices entitle them to some kind of gratitude from four men for whom it is all just a business transaction? Or is it the case that some kind of 'relationship' beyond the cash register really does exist between artists and their most tried-and-true fans--and if so, what sort of obligations does it entail for both sides?

 

[indra]

That policy seem to be encouraging the use of scalpers to me. If someone wants to see the band several times they pretty much are going to have to resort to that. Well, they could get family and friends to get the additional tickets for them perhaps, but often that turns out to be a bust, so often the scalpers are the best option.

And I do understand that they want to get new fans, I think that comment attributed to Mullen is a slap in the face of longtime fans (if he actually did say it...and meant it as it sounded). They aren't exactly youngsters themselves, even Larry darling. To be honest, comments like that make them seem like sleazy old men.

But I'm not going to any of their shows so they don't need to look at my old face. Then again I won't have to look at their old faces either.

 

[Bono's shades]

I don't think it is fair to slag all new fans. Many of them were too young to get into the band back in the 1980s and 1990s. I've encountered many "newbies" on this board who are very passionate about the band - they aren't just jumping on the bandwagon. I've heard so many of them say they have to put up with their friends making fun of them because they like an "old geezer" band!

That being said, U2 does seem to be spitting in the face of some of their oldest and most dedicated fans, the ones they owe a huge debt to for making them the Biggest Band in the World back in the '80s (I say "seem" because I'm still clinging to the hope that the crap they are going through is more due to the people doing business in U2's name then the band themselves).

If I were U2, I would want to see people of ALL ages at the show - but I would want all those people to be enthusiastic, not people (regardless of age) who just went on a whim because they had the money and connections but really didn't care in any more than a casual way about the band.

 

[partygirl33]

the bottom line is that they want to reach as many people as possible..and we get in the way.

 

[speedracer]

To become an old fan, one has to start out as a new fan...

 

[SFGAL]

when I told my husband about the whole presale/sale fiasco... you know what his first response was?
He said:
"I think U2 are putting the diehard/sometimes older fans who usually are up front (GA) up in the nosebleeds seats so that they get new faces and get away from the hassle of fans who have seen U2 before" He really thinks U2 might have done this intentionally.
At first I was affronted and said:
"Not our band U2!!!"
But now I think he is right.
U2 just don't seem to care anymore. The whole ticketing thing has really depressed me. U2 DO have control of the ticketing market and if they wanted to change the whole 10% presale they could have. They easily could have given us a bigger amount of tickets but they didn't.
I just hope they REALLY apologize and make it up somehow.

 

[partygirl33]

"I think U2 are putting the diehard/sometimes older fans who usually are up front (GA) up in the nosebleeds seats so that they get new faces and get away from the hassle of fans who have seen U2 before" He really thinks U2 might have done this intentionally.

This is absolutely true...Just think about what they did at the Brooklyn Bridge concert and their intentions now become crystal clear.

 

[bonoed]

wouldn't that really die hard fan just buy the GA's wherever they can then and whatever price they can it? It seems from all I've read on all the boards, plus looking at stub hub, brokers, Ebay, that scalpers are the ones U2 was really selling to this time. Never, ever on this scale for any of their other tours have so many of the "best tickets" shown up at the scalpers, most of whom offer huge chunks of GA's to every show.

From what they wrote on U2.con, they want their oldest fans who have been there from the start. We'll see what happens in the coming weeks.

 

[Patty Culliton]

>>From what they wrote on U2.con, they want their oldest fans who have been there from the start. <<

Yeah. Um. Old saying: Actions speak louder than words.

I have been saying from the first moment this starting happening last Tuesday -- indeed I've been saying since June '01 -- that they are doing this on purpose. In fact, some blockhead on here mentioned in another thread a woman who got into an argument with Bono at the Four Seasons Hotel in Boston back in June '01. That was me, and I was arguing with Bono over the exact issue that everyone is pondering/debating about here now. The difference then was that I wasn't personally victimized at the time (I hadn't lined up all day/night for that show like those at the front of the queue had). And for the record, Bono did *not* dismiss me. He stood there and debated the issue with me for about 15 minutes, and in fact I was the one who finally ended the conversation because I had to get to Logan Airport for a flight.

In fact I think I might have been the one to originally spark their manipulations from a conversation that I had with Bono earlier on the tour in April. We were just chatting and he said I looked really tired and I said I'd been queued since 6am (this was about 3pm) and he nearly flipped and said "You've been on the queue since 6am?" and I said "yeah" and he asked me if I was the first in line and I said no, that I was about 15th or 20th. His whole demeanor changed from that point forward, almost as if he now had a knot in his knickers.

The very next city that they played was Phoenix -- and the queue was deliberately messed up, U2 staff right there on hand. And I mean Phoenix was a *dangerous stampede.* I had a few friends at the Phoenix show who were just mindblown over how that situation fell to pieces, on a dangerous level. At the time I didn't make the connection -- but I sure did in hindsight.

In Milwaukee a couple of weeks later, the queue got totally jacked again. A friend of mine (who'd lost her place in the queue because of the way it had been ruined) had previously become email penpals with a very very highly placed member of the band's staff. So she left the queue to find that person and complain about what happened. She was surprised to hear the reply of "The band don't want to the queues to work, they don't want to see the same people in several cities."

Couldn't get much plainer than that, huh?

The very day after the Milwaukee show was the Indianapolis show. The way that venue was laid out, there was essentially no opportunity for U2's staff to deliberately mess up the queue -- until just before we actually filed inside, but they still found a way. There were hundreds of us in line by the time the doors opened, of course. Well U2's staff had the first 300 ppl in line escorted over to Door 1. And then they had the *next* 300 (as in starting with person # 301) to a second door that had equal access to the heart/mainfloor. Those of us in the front of 1-300 asked the GM of the arena why they were being given equal opportunity to access the best spots when they'd not bothered to show up until hours after those in front. He assured us that the plan was U2's and that U2's staff had promised him that Door 2 would open later than Door 1. I'm sure you can anticipate the rest of the story without me saying it. Doors 1 & 2 opened at the same time... and who came strolling out of the spot where Door 2 was but the person from U2's staff who'd given the arena staff the direction to halve the queue to begin with.

But the most telling event of all for me (other than when I watched their staff come out and physically handpick people from the back of the queue at the second Boston show in '01) was at the Chicago shows (my hometown) -- which occurred right after the Milwaukee and Indy shows... My friend Jenny was #2 on the queue for the first Chicago show and when the doors open, she headed right for her favorite spot inside the heart (which was at a different spot than front row under Bono's mic). The fact that the #2 person on the queue chose not to go to the front row intrigued the General Mgr of the United Center (who'd been outside looking over the queue and the safe administration of it when the doors opened). So he walked right up to Jenny and myself and said "Now you were #2 on the queue, but you chose to come here instead of the front row? Is this the spot you truly wanted?" And Jenny and I both said "Oh yeah, definitely." And we told him why we liked that spot, etc. So the fellow stands there and chats with us for a while. And not realizing that he was basically sharing with us the answer to the riddle of the sphinx, lol, he starts telling us what a curious time he'd had with U2's staff earlier that day. He (the GM) told us that when they agreed to host a General Admission show at the UC they went through a lot of due diligence first, before agreeing. (Since we had a history of trampling deaths at GA shows in the U.S.) He said that his whole staff worked out a plan to keep the queues orderly and safe (and they truly did -- they put up portapotties outside near the queues, they sold hotdogs right at the queue and on the superhot days they even passed out free bottles of water to those in the queue). And they designed a system to get everyone from the queue into the building and onto the floor in a safe and first-come first-served order. He said they even went over their plan with their liability insurance provider and got the stamp of approval. They had put weeks of safety planning into the four nights of U2 at the United Center in Chicago featuring a general admission mainfloor.

But (and here's the interesting part folks) he said that when U2's staff arrived that morning one of their staff members asked to speak to the GM about the plan for admitting the GA line, and the guy from U2 (who I am deliberately not naming because he's a good guy and was just following orders from his bosses) wanted the UC to basically chuck the plan they'd crafted carefully with the assistance of their liability insurer, etc. etc. to what the GM termed "a much more haphazard plan that my staff couldn't understand the band's desire to use." Jenny and I just looked at each other and shook our heads in incredulity. Anyway, the happy news was that the GM said that they went back to the U2 staffer and said "Sorry but we're the one who'd take the hit if someone got hurt using your plan. Our plan is much safer and much fairer to those who would be in the queue and we are going to be sticking with our original plan." [Three cheers for the United Center's GM!]

I'm having a brain freeze on Toronto (the shows after the holiday U2 took immediately following the Chicago shows). But less than two weeks later in Boston was the real shakeup, where the U2 staff came out and handpicked people from the back of the queue, lied to those on the front of the queue, telling them that the people from the back of the queue would NOT be anywhere near the heart when the gates opened (saying they were being used as subjects to help focus the lights for the DVD shoot and that they would be brought back outside before the doors opened). Of course, that never happened -- and when the first 10 fans legitimately on the queue got inside the venue, there were already fans (from the back of the queue) lined up 2-3 people deep in the front row and the tip of the heart.

I mean -- what more evidence could one possibly require to make the scales fall off their eyes about what this band has become?

BTW - I'd known Bono for almost 10 years at the point at which I argued with him in Boston; he did NOT "dismiss me" in any way shape or form (he stood there and debated with me), and on the last date of the tour (6 mos later in December) he invited me to the show, set up laminates for me and apologized for the things that had happened and said he hoped there were no hard feelings. He stressed that he really didn't want any hard feelings and hoped that I would spread his words to the "regulars" for him.

How can you resist that? Naturally I'd dropped all hard feelings and did spread the word immediately.

But all *this* now with the deliberate manipulations starting on this tour before the first note of music is played, shows me that the remorse was either b.s. or at least short-lived.

What a shame. U2 used to want to be the best band in the world. Now they just want to be the biggest band in the world. And they lost the plot along the way.

 

[kellyahern]

And now--after years of gladly sleeping on sidewalks, willingly forking over months' worth of salaries, and doggedly collecting every single and side project--we are told that we deserve nothing more than the same crapshoot chance at A ticket, ANY ticket, that Newbie X (for whom U2 are just a 'Daaahhling!-you-MUST-see-them' jukebox) is going to get.>>

Why do they assume that "newbie X" is not a die hard U2 fan? Does a person who's been a fan for 20 years deserve more of a chance than someone's who been a fan for 4 years and feels very passionately about the band too?

Maybe when the band say they want to see "new" faces they're not just talking about age? Maybe they just don't want the same people to get to the front everytime and want to give different people a shot at it by limiting the amount of GA one person can buy?

 

[U2ITNOL]

>>The very next city that they played was Phoenix -- and the queue was deliberately messed up, U2 staff right there on hand. And I mean Phoenix was a *dangerous stampede.* I had a few friends at the Phoenix show who were just mindblown over how that situation fell to pieces, on a dangerous level. At the time I didn't make the connection -- but I sure did in hindsight.

Hey Patty! It's John T in Phoenix. Yeah, I was there for the GA line fiasco at the first Phoenix show in April 2001. I was fortunate to make it down into the heart that day in one piece. That was a DANGEROUS situation. I knew a woman who was did get hurt during the mad rush when the doors were opened and had to go through months of physical therapy afterwards. She could have easily filed a lawsuit and won, but she's a diehard U2 fan and didn't want to do that to the band.
For those who aren't familiar with what happened that day, it went down like this.... It was well known in advance that GA ticket holders would only be allowed in through one entrance, the northwest entrance of America West Arena. I had called the arena management myself a few days prior to the show and confirmed this. When I got down to the arena for the GA line the morning of the concert, there were fliers posted at every entrance stating that GA ticket holders had to enter through the northwest entrance. So everything was going smoothly. There were fans handing out line numbers as people arrived to line up. I have to add it was downright miserable waiting in the line that day. It was a typical sunny late-April day in Phoenix, getting up into high 80's or 90. There was hardly any shade to escape the sun beating down on us, so by the end of the day everyone was soaking wet and smelling a little funky. As the afternoon progressed, the GA line stretched all the day down Jefferson Street on the north side of the arena. 30 minutes or so before doors opening, we hear that they're splitting up the GA line and are going to allow them in at other entrances. As you can imagine, everyone who had been waiting since the early morning or night before is up in arms over this. The lower totem pole arena security didn't really know what was going on. They were telling us we'd be let in first before the other doors. Of course that was a load of BS. So when they did open ALL the entrances at once, it was utter chaos. A mad rush to get into the arena and down into the heart. People getting squashed and falling to the ground. Many who had been waiting all day didn't get into the heart, while many who showed up late and got in through other entrances did. Not fair. Of course at the time this happened, we all assumed the arena security had f*cked up badly and was solely to blame. We'd later learn from arena security that the order to open multiple entrances came down from U2's security staff. They were just following orders. The reasoning the GA line was intentionally fouled up was they wanted to see new fresh faces in the heart. Prior to the Phoenix show. the same diehard fans were showing up in the front row or tip of the heart at many of the California shows and had made the trip to Phoenix.

To this day, I still can't comprehend why U2 security chose to go about it in this manner. If they wanted to shake things up in the heart, just do a lottery system for the heart and announce this IN ADVANCE, not spring this on us at the last minute, creating a dangerous situation where fans get hurt.

I'm curious to see how the GA lines will be handled this time around. Will they continue allowing fans to queue up all day? , Or go to a lottery system where everyone gets a fair shot at getting into the oval or whatever it'll be called. Frankly, I'd prefer to see them go to a lottery system. It would prevent any more situations like what happened in Phoenix, San Diego and Boston.

 

[fluffy123]

It's weird reading this....I mean, what is the exact problem of there being the same old face's at the front?

If i was in a successful band, and kept recognising the same faces at the front, I'd be bowled over by the fact that theres so much love there....it's strange.

If said people at the front had been bullying their way to the front etc etc, then fair enough....but by just waiting outside? If I got to a show at 6pm, and someone had been waiting to see them since 6am, then I'm not going to begrudge them a front row spot.

 

[RademR]

the bottom line is the 4-ticket to only one show policy is the fucking stupidest thing I've ever heard of in my life, new or old fan.

 

[fmattyh]

I can understand being sick of the same people in front - who wants to sing the same songs to the same people? The setlists don't change much, but you gotta hope the people do. I'd be annoyed to if I kept seeing the same people all the time.

That said, it seems as though U2 handled this situation in an incredibly poor manner. I really cannot imagine a worse way to handle this than opening all the gates simultaneously. Deceiving your fans is not the way to go. Why can't they just say, "Hey, we'd like to ask those of you who see us every night to let other people have a chance for the front row"?

Makes me nervous for what's going to happen this time. Though it does sound like the United Center has it under control - hopefully they'll stand up to the band again (if things come to that).

 

[U2ITNOL]

I can understand being sick of the same people in front - who wants to sing the same songs to the same people? The setlists don't change much, but you gotta hope the people do. I'd be annoyed to if I kept seeing the same people all the time.

We're not talking about a large number of fans who travel from city to city. There can't be any more than 20-25 diehards who are able to pull this off. A majority of the fans waiting in line for the heart at any show are only going to that one concert, or perhaps travelling to one or two other cities. Not taking weeks out of their lives to follow the band around. They're taking personal vacation days or calling in sick to wait in line all day for a chance to be close to the stage. Those are the fans really getting screwed when situations like Phoenix occur. The diehards who didn't get their usual spot in the front row will be there the next show.

 

[elaine2112]

We're not talking about a large number of fans who travel from city to city. There can't be any more than 20-25 diehards who are able to pull this off. A majority of the fans waiting in line for the heart at any show are only going to that one concert. They're taking a personal vacation day or calling in sick to wait in line all day to be close to the stage. Those are the fans really getting screwed when situations like Phoenix occur. The diehards who didn't get their usual spot in the front row will be there the next show.

true that a large # of people cant follow the band to each and every city.. but there is a large population of college-age types who were able to see many shows in succession within a resonable radius. for example.. the folks i saw in the heart for all 4 boston shows were in the front row for every single one of those shows, and they had also travelled to NY, NJ, etc. a band could get familiar with those faces, fast.

id take it as a huge compliment.. unless they were acting visibly blase, as the quote from paul reads.

 

[Tip Top Prince]

They introduced GA because they were sick of "hand sitters" (vip types) sitting in the front rows. Now they don't like that (the same) hardcore fans are the ones in the front?

Sad - for the first time in 22 years, I find it hard to defend my band.

 

[U2girl]

I can understand being sick of the same people in front - who wants to sing the same songs to the same people? The setlists don't change much, but you gotta hope the people do. I'd be annoyed to if I kept seeing the same people all the time.

That said, it seems as though U2 handled this situation in an incredibly poor manner. I really cannot imagine a worse way to handle this than opening all the gates simultaneously. Deceiving your fans is not the way to go. Why can't they just say, "Hey, we'd like to ask those of you who see us every night to let other people have a chance for the front row"?

Makes me nervous for what's going to happen this time. Though it does sound like the United Center has it under control - hopefully they'll stand up to the band again (if things come to that).

I agree - U2 has a right not to watch the same people in the first row show after show after show.
Those people could be fair to other fans that wanted to be up front and get in the back rows/outside the heart so someone else will get a chance.


As for asking fans that, I somehow have a feeling no one would do it.

 

[Popmartijn]

the bottom line is the 4-ticket to only one show policy is the fucking stupidest thing I've ever heard of in my life, new or old fan.

Not to me.
I didn't interpret that policy as a way to prevent hardcore fans to follow them, but more as a way to prevent ticket touts getting the majority of the tickets.
I think that the U2 organisation and/or Ticketmaster were taken aback by the 'success' of the ticket touts/brokers/scalper/whatever-you-want-to-call-them. Yes, they expected those people to have tickets too to sell at ridiculous prices, but I don't think they expected that many of them selling so many tickets. Add to this the outrage of us U2 fans and the threat of taking legal action and someone high up in the organisation got scared.
So they installed a policy of selling only up to 4 tickets for the whole UK part of the tour. This would hopefully prevent those touts/scalpers/etc. from getting too many tickets. Yes, it also prevents real fans from getting tickets to many shows. So there is the trade-off: try to prevent getting brokers to much or allow those 200-300 (max.) hardcore fans to buy tickets to all those shows. We know which decision they made.

BTW, I use the word 'they' as I don't know whether it is the U2 organisation (maybe also outraged by the current situation) or Ticketmaster (scared for further investigation) that made the decision.

C ya!

Marty

 

[LyricalDrug]

Excellent provocative topic -- thanks for posting this. It's been on mind for a while too.

I'm an old fan (30+) who's embarrassed by the comments coming from most of the older fans. They seem to think that they're more entitled to see U2, that they can better "appreciate" U2, than the newer fans. That is pure elitism to me, and it's obnoxious.

Caroline and Matt McGee do a great service for U2 fans by running great websites, but they're not any more "entitled" to see U2 than the wide-eyed sixteen year old girl who just bought her first U2 album because she loved "Vertigo."

Some tickets go to new fans, some go to old fans, and some go to scalpers. I've been a U2 fan since '91 and have been to 12 shows on two continents, and I had to hustle for tickets this time just like everyone else did. I had to recruit friends to sign up for the pre-sale so we could all go to the San Diego show together. I have tried to for tickets for every show through Ticketmaster. I am out there, wheeling and dealing and trading with other U2 fans, to make sure I get GA tix to the shows.

This is rock n' roll. It's crazy, yes. This is also the biggest rock band on earth. EVERYONE and their grandmother and Presidents of the United States, and kids, and moms and dads, and aunts and uncles, and janitors and doctors, and car salesmen and office workers, want tickets. You have to try really, really, really hard to get seats. Everyone has to do it and long-time fans don't get a free pass.