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Elvis

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This may seem incredibly odd that I'm asking this in a member forum, and not a moderator only forum... however, I'd really like to hear what people have to say about the following:

Lately we've had a lot of individuals and cliques constantly duking it out with each other; reporting every possible post, always making sarcastic, rude, or snide comments, and of course.. plenty of personal attacks.

Many of the people involved are quite popular around here, and it would be a shame to have to suspend or ban them.

This is a community problem.

So, if you've got ideas on how to deal with this... I'd love to hear your suggestions, just please keep it serious.

Joel
 
Elvis said:
Many of the people involved are quite popular around here, and it would be a shame to have to suspend or ban them.

I think there's a problem right there.

I don't care if it is your first post, and you don't have a single friend here yet or if you thousands of posts and a boatload of friends...the rules apply. I think some people who are popular here may feel that they are "safe" and can just skate on through and do as they please. That's not true. I've been accused of favoritism in the past, which really bugs me, because I honestly strive to be as fair as possible.

I do agree with you that it would be a shame...but that shouldn't stop us from enforcing rules. This should be a nice environment where everybody feels welcome and equal. If people can't respect and follow rules that are basically common decency...THAT is a shame.
 
I agree that the problem is that because they think they're popular and have lots of friends that that makes them suddenly immune to getting in trouble. To take care of that would most likely require suspension or banning for them to take it seriously. Some of them think they run this place and I think the only way to fix that is to enforce the rules and stop giving them more chances.
 
Do members get a message when one of their posts is reported? If so, I guess you could look for a willingness to change when a certain behvior is reported.

But, to Bonochick's point, a violation of the rules should be enforced even handedly, no matter how popular the member.
 
nbcrusader said:
Do members get a message when one of their posts is reported? If so, I guess you could look for a willingness to change when a certain behvior is reported.

But, to Bonochick's point, a violation of the rules should be enforced even handedly, no matter how popular the member.

The problem with that is that alot of the people who do get reported ignore moderator emails, PM's and warnings. They just keep going about their business. They don't care to change their behavior, and don't care how it effects others.

The thing is...mob mentality. If moderators, say, ban, a popular member or members, then a crusade will be launched against the mods, thusly creating a problem for mods who are just trying to lessen the problems for others. This then becomes a huge issue and then the mods are taken down as well, which is not what we want at all. We don't want to be involved in clique or personal squabbles, and we don't want crusades against us when the rules are enforced.
 
I think we should have more 'time-outs' - maybe 1-2 week suspensions of board access - give them a taste of life without blue crack, so they know that we are watching and bad behavior won't be tolerated. Do it a second time and it is a longer (6 months?) or permanent vacation. More work for you and Sicy unfortunately, but may work as a wake-up call to think more closely about what they post :shrug:
 
clarityat3am said:
I agree that the problem is that because they think they're popular and have lots of friends that that makes them suddenly immune to getting in trouble. To take care of that would most likely require suspension or banning for them to take it seriously. Some of them think they run this place and I think the only way to fix that is to enforce the rules and stop giving them more chances.

I agree. I'd like to say as much as I try to avoid/ignore it, it gets extremely annoying to see the same people engaging in repeated offensive behavior. It's at the point where it is completely predictable. I don't say anything because honestly it becomes clear what will happen to me on here if I do. It's not worth the stress and aggravation for me. I just go along and try to filter it out and participate the way I want to.
 
bonosloveslave said:
I think we should have more 'time-outs' - maybe 1-2 week suspensions of board access - give them a taste of life without blue crack, so they know that we are watching and bad behavior won't be tolerated. Do it a second time and it is a longer (6 months?) or permanent vacation. More work for you and Sicy unfortunately, but may work as a wake-up call to think more closely about what they post :shrug:

I've thought about this too.

And well, we all know how I feel about the troll-y alters... :down:
 
Miroslava said:


I've thought about this too.

And well, we all know how I feel about the troll-y alters... :down:


Registering and/or using an Alter while banned or suspended is reason for a permanent ban and possible further action, not excluding contacting the member's ISP or the proper authorities.
 
Well, what I meant is those members with multiple screennames (not obvious funny alters) that use them to start crap or say things they wouldn't say under their main SN.

:tsk:
 
Miroslava said:
Well, what I meant is those members with multiple screennames (not obvious funny alters) that use them to start crap or say things they wouldn't say under their main SN.

:tsk:

I thought that was against the rules.
 
U2Man said:


I thought that was against the rules.


It is, and they can be banned for doing that.

That, I suppose, is part of the larger topic of which I started this thread for.
 
Then why not be a bit more consistent in taking their alters away from them as soon as they use them to be rude/sarcastic or bicker on other members?

OK, I don't know how it works now, but if people cannot help being rude to other members, at least they should be brave enough to use their usual username while doing it.
 
U2Man said:
Then why not be a bit more consistent in taking their alters away from them as soon as they use them to be rude/sarcastic or bicker on other members?

OK, I don't know how it works now, but if people cannot help being rude to other members, at least they should be brave enough to use their usual username while doing it.

Alters is completely another discussion... let's try to stay on topic though.
 
MrsSpringsteen said:


I agree. I'd like to say as much as I try to avoid/ignore it, it gets extremely annoying to see the same people engaging in repeated offensive behavior. It's at the point where it is completely predictable. I don't say anything because honestly it becomes clear what will happen to me on here if I do. It's not worth the stress and aggravation for me. I just go along and try to filter it out and participate the way I want to.

I agree completely. If most people act this way, and ignore the arguments, etc. I think it might die down. Who knows. :shrug:

If you ignore a bully, they'll eventually give up. It is no fun for them to harass and argue with someone that won't give you the time of day. Not sure if that makes total sense, but there's my 2 cents.
 
Alter or not, new or old or popular or whatever, if they disrespect or don't follow the rules, they need to be reprimanded the same way every time. I think we should have another thread to discuss alters, so this one will stay on topic.
 
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i say maybe the admins/mods could keep a database, storing how many times someone has been warned, so if there is to be a banning, at least it's fair(i think fairness is especially important when there's money involved-Premium Membership).

maybe do a 3 strikes and you're out rule?


btw, sorry if any of this has to do with me. i really was just trying to defend myself yesterday without insulting anyone, and i think i actually accomplished that. the line was crossed when i was called a "douche" though, especially when i was only trying to make a point of why it was acceptable to start the thread i did. i had no choice but to report that post.

thanks for listening. :)
 
nbcrusader said:
If so, I guess you could look for a willingness to change when a certain behvior is reported.

But, to Bonochick's point, a violation of the rules should be enforced even handedly, no matter how popular the member.

:up: That's all you can do. HelloAngel, I know it'd suck to have the rest of the clique come after a mod, but I think that's just got to be part of the crappy part of being a mod. Sucks, but I think that's just how it has to be.

My recommendations are pretty much like those above:

1). Everyone gets a warning, no matter how "popular" they are.
2). If the warnings go unheeded, then the member gets either a temporary ban or a permanent ban, depending on how awful the behavior has been....no matter how "popular."
3). If the rude behavior continues even after a temporary ban, then a permanent ban is enforced---no warning even needed, and again, no matter how popular a person is.



As for alters (and I know it's another topic :wink: ), I think I've made it clear that I'm not a fan. If you want to start a Batman alter and have your posts talk only about Batman stuff in a funny thread, fine. In a serious thread, it's not so cool. And if you want a random, "realistic" alter and just start crap, fuel arguments, etc., then I'd say see Steps 1-3 above.
 
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Regardless of Premium memberships, there is a user agreement upon registering here and the Rules are posted from EVERY page. Getting banned can and will happen if the person is a Premium member or not.
 
Elvis said:
Regardless of Premium memberships, there is a user agreement upon registering here and the Rules are posted from EVERY page. Getting banned can and will happen if the person is a Premium member or not.

of course, but when payments are involved, sometimes things can get a little more touchy. that's why i thought if anything, maybe it would be less of a headache for you if you were able to provide documentation of every warning a member had when banning them. if anything, it would give them less of a case for trying to get their money back.
 
Utoo said:
My recommendations are pretty much like those above:

1). Everyone gets a warning, no matter how "popular" they are.
2). If the warnings go unheeded, then the member gets either a temporary ban or a permanent ban, depending on how awful the behavior has been....no matter how "popular."
3). If the rude behavior continues even after a temporary ban, then a permanent ban is enforced---no warning even needed, and again, no matter how popular a person is.

This is pretty much what we already do, though.

Which is why this thread was started. The usual tactics aren't working, and since sooo much drama has been happening lately, what is there to do that will cause the least amount of upheaval and problems for everyone else including the mods. We're honestly asking.

Either way, should someone popular get permanently banned, there's always going to be a shitstorm in its wake. We know we can't please everyone, but we would like to lessen the amount of vitriol handed to us after such an action is taken.
 
if people don't respond to a warning can't you suspend them until they do? If they don't respond to the mod that's warned them then they can't post.

Time outs seem like a good idea. Just a short time away as opposed to a banning if they aren't listening to warnings.
 
mikal said:


of course, but when payments are involved, sometimes things can get a little more touchy. that's why i thought if anything, maybe it would be less of a headache for you if you were able to provide documentation of every warning a member had when banning them. if anything, it would give them less of a case for trying to get their money back.


This is offtopic, but this is a quick reply... it says on the subscription page - no refunds. And this is exactly why. It is not our responsibility to refund someone if they can't behave. This has always been the policy, and has always been posted.
 
Elvis said:



This is offtopic, but this is a quick reply... it says on the subscription page - no refunds. And this is exactly why. It is not our responsibility to refund someone if they can't behave. This has always been the policy, and has always been posted.

ah. ok. thanks for clarifying.
 
HelloAngel said:

The usual tactics aren't working

Maybe people are being given too many warnings? I dunno. I know that there'd be some upheaval, but maybe a bit of turbulence is what's needed to fix this. Kind of like an example. Someone big gets banned because they're being a jerk, all their friends go crazy over it and get pissed off, and then you guys say: "Look, this is what happened. If you act like this and ignore the mods, you don't come back. Anyone who acts like this person did will have the same fate. That's it."

I know that you guys might be afraid of a bunch of people leaving if someone really popular got kicked out, but I don't really foresee that.. This site has survived a blunder or two in the past (before my time, I know) but it's still got a ton of members and a TON of new members----because we all know that this is the best U2 fan board & we spread the word. I think the future of the site is still pretty good, despite the possibility of a hurt clique or two.


EDIT: One more thing: I think stating that there is a set number of warnings allowed, etc., would be a good thing. That way no one gets a few extra warnings because they're cool.....or no one can allege that someone else got a few extra warnings because they're cool.
 
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ThoraSEB said:
I agree completely. If most people act this way, and ignore the arguments, etc. I think it might die down. Who knows. :shrug:

If you ignore a bully, they'll eventually give up. It is no fun for them to harass and argue with someone that won't give you the time of day. Not sure if that makes total sense, but there's my 2 cents.

While it is of course a nice idea to just ignore someone, it rarely works. Either you can't take it anymore and give a reaction, or friends on this board give a reaction. And it snowballs from there...
:|
 
How about a three strikes and your out kind of deal? It's getting to the point where some members think it's ok to insult a moderator or other members. They get warned but they do it over and over again. And it's just not 3 times or 6 times that they are warned. I know there are a few people well liked here but it shouldn't excuse them for being incredibly rude towards the mods or the posters on here. I really like this site and I don't want to leave.


AHHH crap. I should have read Mikal's post before posting mine! :lol: :reject:

ETA: I agree with Utoo's post. Some posters get multiple warnings and they seem to just get away with it. I know the mods try there best and they can't be everywhere all at once. When I see certain posters just belittling people and the mods there's no need for it. Maybe suspend them for the day. I don't know. People need to respect each other a bit more on here though.
 
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Utoo said:


:up: That's all you can do. HelloAngel, I know it'd suck to have the rest of the clique come after a mod, but I think that's just got to be part of the crappy part of being a mod. Sucks, but I think that's just how it has to be.

My recommendations are pretty much like those above:

1). Everyone gets a warning, no matter how "popular" they are.
2). If the warnings go unheeded, then the member gets either a temporary ban or a permanent ban, depending on how awful the behavior has been....no matter how "popular."
3). If the rude behavior continues even after a temporary ban, then a permanent ban is enforced---no warning even needed, and again, no matter how popular a person is.

I would extend a similar system if the "mob" starts creating problems for the Moderators. The rules are clear about public discussions of bannings.
 
Popmartijn said:


While it is of course a nice idea to just ignore someone, it rarely works. Either you can't take it anymore and give a reaction, or friends on this board give a reaction. And it snowballs from there...
:|

Marty has nailed the problem! I have been guilty of it - and FREELY accept parital blame.

I came to the aid of a friend who was being attacked. I should have not done that - yet I am tired of seeing this person attacked. In return, I was attacked by four or five people...the snowball effect.

I ended up apologizing publicly to a few - and PMing a few to apologize. Again...I realize I was part of the problem.

So...this is a public apology from at least half of last night's issues. I HATE to see how negative the board has gotten recently. I HATE seeing the same people attack/follow the same individuals. I feel suspensions may help. I have had one in the past...and it cooled my jets quite a bit back then.

Anyway...sorry. Again. :shrug:
 
bonosloveslave said:
I think we should have more 'time-outs' - maybe 1-2 week suspensions of board access - give them a taste of life without blue crack, so they know that we are watching and bad behavior won't be tolerated. Do it a second time and it is a longer (6 months?) or permanent vacation. More work for you and Sicy unfortunately, but may work as a wake-up call to think more closely about what they post :shrug:

I think this sounds like a good idea.
 
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