giving subjects a rest

[U2Kitten]

I see on FYM that one of the mods proposed a 6 month moratorium on discussing the topics of abortion and gay marriage, because they become heated and the same people keep making the same arguments. I agree.

However, I also see a connection between this and what U2girl suggested in the now closed thread. I also realize no spinoffs are allowed, but since this has been suggested on other topics I also think it's a good idea to put the topic of bashing U2's 2 latest albums while pushing Pop down everyone's throat also be put on a hiatus. While U2girl was accused of member bashing, members in those thread frequently bash those who disagree. Also, they are bashing the band. I also agree with U2girl that these guys are TROLLS and most likely alters of people who have done it in the past, or possibly even of each other. It takes someone who has been here years like she and I have to see how worn out and troublesome this topic has become.

I am tired of the 'respect opinons' thing, because it doesn't apply to everyone. Some peopole think they should be allowed to express their negative opinions, but get angry when someone disagrees and criticizes their views. I ask, what is the difference? Why is it okay to bash but not okay to bash bashers? Then, if those who bash the bashers get bashed back, it's back to 'opinion' again? So what it all comes down to (on everything from FYM to EYKIW) is that some people believe they should have the right to post an opinion and have it stand unchallenged. That is not 'respecting opinions' because it does not respect opposition. If they want their opinion respected it should go both ways. I am tired of the double standard on 'respecting opinions.'

If no breather is given on the subject of album bashing, then those who are fed up with it are going to continue to voice displeasure, thus all these threads are bound to end up in fights and insults. What's the point? We KNOW who hates what already, some people really need to get over their hatreds.

Could we please at least give it a break at least through the first of the year?

 

[U2girl]

You know, as far as I can tell, the thread that got closed had no name-calling or rudeness. I feel my tone was nowhere near bashing others, especially compared to the mentioned people.

I would love to avoid the said posters but it's hard to do when they appear all over EYKIW and Where the album has no name. And those are the only places to really talk about U2 - unless everyone goes into their journal. I don't want to stop talking about the band, but I also don't feel like reading the myriad of anti-U2 campaign messages anytime I look into EYKIW.

There is IMO a difference between a reasoned, measured toned critisism with real arguments and the relentless bashing that has been occuring.

And I KNOW I am not the only one, or the first one, to have a problem with negative posts from those guys. ("negative" is putting it mildly)

 

[U2Kitten]

I agree with everything in your post!

Also, to Khanada, the mod who closed U2girl's thread: do you remember back in the days when Pop was regulary bashed on the forum, and you were the very first person to say 'enough already, we know, we know, it's old already, just shut up' So why is it okay for those who bash the new albums to do it over and over again? Shouldn't it go both ways, in all fairness?

We need a breather from all bashing, it's dragging the forum down.

 

[indra]

And I hate to say, but you two are always saying "if you don't like it shut up." Why does that not also apply to you? Should only gushingly positive statements be allowed? It would be pointless to come here at all if that was the case. The ignore button does wonders to knock out the posts you don't wish to read.

If people attack others views (the band is a public entity and has essentially accepted that there are going to be negative as well as positive reactions to their work), then they should be reported to the appropriate mod or mods, but to not permit disagreement seems to be a huge over-reaction to a few people who have differing views. I strongly oppose it.

 

[U2Kitten]

If you care so much about other people's views, then why are some views tolerated others called bad? Look, you are very preachy, but you haven't been here nearly as long as U2girl and I have, we've seen a lot you haven't. It's not how it looks to you, believe me, there is a lot more involved than what you think.

 

[indra]

If you care so much about other people's views, then why are some views tolerated others called bad? Look, you are very preachy, but you haven't been here nearly as long as U2girl and I have, we've seen a lot you haven't. It's not how it looks to you, believe me, there is a lot more involved than what you think.

So, since you have already seen and heard it all, you don't think anyone else should be able to discuss the subjects you don't like? And you're call me preachy? What does it matter if these people are trolls anyway? If you ignore them and their posts, they have no fun and will eventually go away (or at least you won't get your feathers ruffled). If you don't like someone's posts, don't read them. Many people here I simply ignore.

But you wish to halt discussions simply because you have heard them before. I keep hearing how it doesn't matter how many posts you have or how long you've been here that matters -- that everyone is equally important -- and then I read your posts about how you've already heard it all before. Going by that, shouldn't everyone who likes any of the albums or songs shut up now? After all, we've all heard loads of praise about them all. Since you tend to bring up how long you have been here and how many times you have heard various discussions, surely you must realize that not everyone here have not been here to participate in all of these discussions.

Besides, I like many of the discussions you dislike and wish to have halted. I don't have to agree with everything (and I don't), but many of these discussions are simply fun and interesting. I don't want to have them halted simply because you have been here longer and you've already discussed it.

I don't give a rats ass who likes what albums or songs, and I don't think that some fans are better than others (even the ones who have been here longer ), but I like hearing various views, both pro and con. It's really no fun discussing things only with people who agree me.

 

[anitram]

Honestly, I've had a seriously wonderful awakening whereby I realized that you know what, there are a lot of things in this world I could devote energy to, and rehashing the same old topics isn't one of them. For you guys, it's a handful of posters who continually irritate you, and I agree with indra - block them. For me, it was FYM, and the continual mauling of the proverbial dead horse combined with some real tackiness and unadulterated meanness that I tried not to take personally that finally did it. But I appreciate that there are people who are not bothered, and do enjoy interacting with each other on that forum and I don't think it's my place to try and restrict that. So I'm exercising self-censorship, and frankly, what a fucking relief it's been!

 

[Angela Harlem]

I reckon anitram has a point, not that my opinion on hre matters anymore if it ever did. When I was admining and modding here, I remember the 3 of you above her (U2k, U2g and Indra) would discuss this very thing in various threads and every time I'd still be nowhere near a possible solution to this. And why? Cos you guys have the right to find the constant criticism annoying. You're allowed to complain about whatever you like, many of us here do that, complaining etc. And why not, For a lot of poeople this is a band who is very important and a forum where a lot of time is spent.
Unfortunately this also applies to those who are doing the criticising or original complaining. So everyone is in the same boat.

Since dear ole buddy boy Elvis gave me no more purpose to be here, I pissed off into the sunset and finished a painting, I taught myself to cook something new each week. I became a gym junkie. I feed ducks down the river. And I couldn't give a flying rats arse what anyone on this forum thinks of any of the albums or the band themselves. I reckon people can wallow in whatever negativity they want. I dont have to absorb it. I can read it and let it wash over me, cos I just dont care. If someone is hell bent on hating something, let them stew in that. It cant be healthy but it aint my problem. Good luck to them.

I dont really have anything to add here except that if this forum gives you a pain in the hole, try and rise above it or just...avoid it. Go find where the happiness is. I really hate to say this next part but ignorance IS bliss. It really is.

 

[anitram]

I dont really have anything to add here except that if this forum gives you a pain in the hole, try and rise above it or just...avoid it. Go find where the happiness is. I really hate to say this next part but ignorance IS bliss. It really is.

 

[U2girl]

And I hate to say, but you two are always saying "if you don't like it shut up." Why does that not also apply to you? Should only gushingly positive statements be allowed? It would be pointless to come here at all if that was the case. The ignore button does wonders to knock out the posts you don't wish to read.

If people attack others views (the band is a public entity and has essentially accepted that there are going to be negative as well as positive reactions to their work), then they should be reported to the appropriate mod or mods, but to not permit disagreement seems to be a huge over-reaction to a few people who have differing views. I strongly oppose it.

I don't recall ever saying "shut up" to anyone about disliking HTDAAB and/or ATYCLB. And again, no one is saying anything about not allowing critisism. We only mind the mindless bashing.

In itself, constant and 100% grinding of the band is very unconstructive and frankly, weird to do on a U2 FAN FORUM. As is pissing off people on purpose.

I really don't get the whole "we don't want eternal praise of the band" thing that keeps coming up in these debates. That is unrealistic and you know it. I would imagine though, that most of us come here to talk about things we like about the band - after all, being fans probably means we, in essence, enjoy their work. If I wanted to mouth off on U2, I really don't see why a fan site would be SUCH a great place to do it.

Though yes, knocking it off would be a sensible thing to do. Many, many fans from the 80's didn't accept the band's moves in the 1990s but that doesn't mean we get "AB sucks" or "Zooropa sucks" or "Pop is crap" threads/posts on a daily basis.
BTW, I feel this forum is already more than enough biased in favor of 90's U2, there is absolutely no need for crapping on their work since 2000.

Apart from the so popular "ignore or don't read it", there is also the point of letting something go and not rehashing it.

If we get constantly beat up over this, why don't they too? There has to be opposition on both sides.
If everyone did what you say and ignored them, that wouldn't make them stop - they would continue and think they're right.

 

[pax]

Just so you all know, the mods are working on this. Keep in mind that it is very difficult to balance people's desire for unfettered speech with also trying to keep people happy and relatively un-offended. Obviously, people will blow gaskets from time to time, and we as mods can yell at them or try to keep things under control pre-emptively or give "vacations" (as I like to call suspensions in FYM ) to the offenders, but ultimately the responsibility rests with individual post-ers to try and interact positively with their fellow post-ers.

Also, let's keep in mind that just because someone registered fairly recently, that doesn't mean that they're only that new to the forum. I lurked for months before I ever bothered to register, and then I didn't even post much for a few months after that.

New blood is what helps to keep Interference (and many sites like it) vital, fun, and interesting. Let's not discredit people's opinions just because they haven't been around as long as others--we archive back several years here, and it wouldn't be impossible to go back to some representative old threads and get a sense of the evolution of the forums. Granted, it's not *exactly* the same as having been around all along, but it's something.

My ultimate recommendation to all of you is something along the lines of what anitram and AH have already said: If the negativity bothers you, don't become a part of it. Your own life will be better for it...and the mods' jobs will be easier.

 

[U2Kitten]

Just so you all know, the mods are working on this. Keep in mind that it is very difficult to balance people's desire for unfettered speech with also trying to keep people happy and relatively un-offended. Obviously, people will blow gaskets from time to time, and we as mods can yell at them or try to keep things under control pre-emptively or give "vacations" (as I like to call suspensions in FYM ) to the offenders, but ultimately the responsibility rests with individual post-ers to try and interact positively with their fellow post-ers.

Thanks. All that free speech piety aside, I really think that some subjects have become so volatile, or redundant, that they are not constructive and only cause fights, usually the same fights between the same people (as you said in FYM) I don't see how anyone would rather have this continue in the name of some kind of 'freedom' instead of giving it a break for the good and the entire mood of the forum.

Also, let's keep in mind that just because someone registered fairly recently, that doesn't mean that they're only that new to the forum. I lurked for months before I ever bothered to register, and then I didn't even post much for a few months after that.

Also, many times they are not new at all but someone who has been there for ages using an alter.

 

[melon]

Haha...I see FYM hasn't changed one bit. Good riddance, I say.

Melon

 

[BostonAnne]

Haha...I see FYM hasn't changed one bit. Good riddance, I say.

Melon

I miss you in FYM Melon!

I miss Angela Harlem too, but glad she is happy spending her time in a different way.

I find that ignoring threads on subject matter that isn't fun/educational for you can really help. If you know you'll never gain insight on others thoughts - whether it be a FYM subject or U2 negativity - just stay out of the thread. If you can't resist reading - resist posting. I find it's so much easier to let go if you don't have a post there to check on.

If someone is purposely stirring up trouble - it won't go far if the fuel isn't ignited.

 

[U2Kitten]

I find that ignoring threads on subject matter that isn't fun/educational for you can really help. If you know you'll never gain insight on others thoughts - whether it be a FYM subject or U2 negativity - just stay out of the thread. If you can't resist reading - resist posting. I find it's so much easier to let go if you don't have a post there to check on.

It's not that easy, I have tried, but certain comments and cliche's eat at me like 'chicken' did Marty McFly. But that's FYM.

As far as the trolling and bashing being done in EYKIW, that really should stop.

If someone is purposely stirring up trouble - it won't go far if the fuel isn't ignited.

Easy to say, but even if me and you don't answer, it's inevitable someone will. The thing that gets me is the negativity drags the forum down. It would be good to have a rest from certain topics. Perhaps those who hate an album so much they can't shut up about it can profess their hatred in their sig or location so we'll always know and spare us the rhetoric in the threads.

 

[indra]

It's not that easy, I have tried, but certain comments and cliche's eat at me like 'chicken' did Marty McFly. But that's FYM.

As far as the trolling and bashing being done in EYKIW, that really should stop.



Easy to say, but even if me and you don't answer, it's inevitable someone will. The thing that gets me is the negativity drags the forum down. It would be good to have a rest from certain topics. Perhaps those who hate an album so much they can't shut up about it can profess their hatred in their sig or location so we'll always know and spare us the rhetoric in the threads.

Originally quoted by U2girl
I really don't get the whole "we don't want eternal praise of the band" thing that keeps coming up in these debates. That is unrealistic and you know it. I would imagine though, that most of us come here to talk about things we like about the band - after all, being fans probably means we, in essence, enjoy their work. If I wanted to mouth off on U2, I really don't see why a fan site would be SUCH a great place to do it.

I don't think either of you quite get that people -- fans -- can absolutely adore a band, yet really dislike a particular album (or series of albums). They can still be a fan of that band...they just don't have to love everything about them. They should be able to voice their disapproval. As other people mentioned before -- you do not have to read it (or respond to it). Where else are people who like U2, but don't really like one or more of their albums going to discuss their disappointment? And what you call constant bashing I call discussing.

I do agree that no one should call themselves a "better fan" because they like the 90's U2 the most (I don't care for their output during that time myself), but I also don't think that someone who loves everything the band has ever done is a "better fan" either. A troll exists solely to cause problems -- the people you mentioned might focus on aspects of U2's music they dislike, but their views are no less valid than those of a person who focuses only on the things they love in the music. I like reading all the views, not just the gushingly positive ones. Why should you get to tell me I can't read those anymore? What makes you better?

Originally posted by U2girl
If we get constantly beat up over this, why don't they too? There has to be opposition on both sides.
If everyone did what you say and ignored them, that wouldn't make them stop - they would continue and think they're right.

Well, you are. I read the threads (even though I often chose not to respond). You always tell them they are wrong. So...where is the problem? They say you are wrong -- you tell them they are wrong. You specifically mentioned three people (in the thread here which was closed), and there are two of you who are really miffed about it. Seems pretty even to me.

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

:Also, to Khanada, the mod who closed U2girl's thread: do you remember back in the days when Pop was regulary bashed on the forum, and you were the very first person to say 'enough already, we know, we know, it's old already, just shut up' So why is it okay for those who bash the new albums to do it over and over again? Shouldn't it go both ways, in all fairness?

- i didn't close the thread.
- as i said in U2girl's thread, if you have a problem with a member or mod, you take it up with them in PRIVATE. if you disagree with why a thread is closed, you ask a mod in private.

but to answer your question, as you said, that was "back in the day." people's opinions changed and i realized that people can express their opinions if they like. if someone wants to start a thread saying they think an album sucks, fine. but starting up a thread JUST to call out a couple members or a member of the band? that's so not cool it's not even funny. interference is not a platform to call out or bash anyone. i don't care if it's someone most members think is a villian of sorts, like henry rollins. it's just not something that should be done.

 

[U2Kitten]

And what you call constant bashing I call discussing.

When it reaches the point of beating a dead horse and saying the same thing over and over and bringing it up over and over, it's bashing and trolling.

 

[U2girl]

I don't think either of you quite get that people -- fans -- can absolutely adore a band, yet really dislike a particular album (or series of albums). They can still be a fan of that band...they just don't have to love everything about them. They should be able to voice their disapproval. As other people mentioned before -- you do not have to read it (or respond to it). Where else are people who like U2, but don't really like one or more of their albums going to discuss their disappointment? And what you call constant bashing I call discussing.

I do agree that no one should call themselves a "better fan" because they like the 90's U2 the most (I don't care for their output during that time myself), but I also don't think that someone who loves everything the band has ever done is a "better fan" either. A troll exists solely to cause problems -- the people you mentioned might focus on aspects of U2's music they dislike, but their views are no less valid than those of a person who focuses only on the things they love in the music. I like reading all the views, not just the gushingly positive ones. Why should you get to tell me I can't read those anymore? What makes you better?



Well, you are. I read the threads (even though I often chose not to respond). You always tell them they are wrong. So...where is the problem? They say you are wrong -- you tell them they are wrong. You specifically mentioned three people (in the thread here which was closed), and there are two of you who are really miffed about it. Seems pretty even to me.

I really don't think you get it.

Tell me which of the following was discussion:

- saying, as if it is a matter of fact, that ATYCLB and/or HTDAAB are crap albums somehow unworthy of U2

- calling people who liked those album sheeps and blind followers

- claiming 90's U2 fans are "real" fans

- verbally attacking those who defended those albums, and those who mention dislike for 90's albums

- entering into several threads all over EYKIW and Where the album has a name just to make sure ATYCLB/HTDAAB is bashed into the ground

- not really contributing much constructive to the forum other than focusing on the supposed "bad" albums and "bad" U2

- bashing everything since 2000, two studio albums and the second Best of (remixes from Pop): the music, Bono's lyrics and voice, the production ...

- posting band quotes and then misleadingly interpret them, as well as posting false sales numbers of albums

I think it has been already explained what the problem was. It's not even close to being even, too.


If my closed thread was bashing, we can close EYKIW and FYM right now.
I did post in their threads, if only to add some balance to their "doom and gloom" view of the band (I really don't think anyone who liked ATYCLB/HTDAAB can reason with them). I can't email them or PM them because I'm not a premium member (which doesn't allow me to contact mods in private. how am I suposed to know which one closed the thread ??).

I posted this because I was under the impression mods can help out when there is a problem among members. I also gave those thread names as examples of their behaviour, which was, I thought, the kind of behaviour not allowed here. Do mods not deal with inapropriate behaviour?

(calling out members? perhaps you'd like to see what one of them posted about me in a EYKIW thread)

 

[U2girl]

Sorry, double post.

 

[U2Kitten]

Thanks for the list, U2girl, it's all that and more, including personal attacks and insults on the intellect of those who like the 2000's albums better than Pop and Zooropa (again, many times) It's very frustrating to me that Indra does not understand what we're trying to say and is bashing us!

Indra, I am not saying no one should ever say anything negative about the band or express a dislike for something. I have even done it myself, recently bashing the Discotheque video and Crumbs From Your Table. It's much worse, deeper, and older than you could possibly image. Believe me, U2girl's list is right!

 

[Elvis]

Thanks for your input, criticism, suggestions, etc etc.

BostonAnne, AH, paxetaurora, and Khanada made excellent points... which should be seriously taken to heart and considered.

I'm closing this thread. In the future, if you find a post that violates the rules/faq.... report it. The moderators will then decide what to do with it. Thanks.

As a side note, I know that if I posted more often... I'd be bashing/criticising U2's more recent efforts as well. I'm a fan of the late 80s/90s... so I know where people are coming from. Personally, I have better things to do than bitch in public, and Id rather use that energy in more positive ways. What I have noticed recently is that both on this forum and zootopia is that many fans are not completely satisfied with U2 in recent/current times. In the last decade of being involved with U2 online I do not recall another time where so many people were so vocal about their dislikes. This could be a result just due to numbers... more people online, more people whining, seems like a lot more... or it could really be that a lot of truly fans arent thrilled with U2 anymore.