(09-11-2004) U2, The Band That Never Embarrasses Itself -- New York Times* - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

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Old 09-14-2004, 07:57 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheFirstBigW
I guess what I'm objecting to is the personal attacks part of the discussion.

Why can't we just debate whether or not the Iraq war was a bad action and/or decision rather than debating whether or not Bush has bad motives or is a bad human being (something which only God can know for sure and is qualified to judge)?
Because most of us realize that INVADING Iraq or any other country that did not attack us 1st is a very bad decision!

HMMMM..I also seem to know that God helps those who help themselves.

Let me ask you...IF YOU PERFORM POORLY AT YOUR JOB, WILL YOUR BOSS LEAVE IT UP TO GOD TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN KEEP YOUR JOB??

Whew! I'm sorry..but this is ridiculous, and it's getting a bit frustrating.
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Old 09-14-2004, 09:06 PM   #47
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Check out the article in zoonation.com
It's on Bush. Very interesting. Like the t-shirt says, "there's good bush & there's bad Bush". hehe.


Just remember, "Everything you know is wrong.".
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Old 09-15-2004, 10:46 PM   #48
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No doubt, it's fact on the Cheney Halliburton connection. I call the film propaganda simply because Michael Moore paints the situation as...

ahhhhh, I'm too tired for this.

All I want to do is plug in "How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb," but I can't cause it's not freakin' out for 2 more months.
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Old 09-16-2004, 05:22 PM   #49
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Originally posted by Elevation01

Let me ask you...IF YOU PERFORM POORLY AT YOUR JOB, WILL YOUR BOSS LEAVE IT UP TO GOD TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN KEEP YOUR JOB??
There's nothing wrong with debating whether or not Bush should be re-elected, I'm just concerned with the tendency by some to assume the absolute worst about the motives of his heart (i.e.- the "Bush started a war for personal gain" theory) and comparing him to people like Adolph Hitler. Those assertions are far different than an objective discussion of his job competency, which I welcome.
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Old 09-16-2004, 08:10 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheFirstBigW

There's nothing wrong with debating whether or not Bush should be re-elected, I'm just concerned with the tendency by some to assume the absolute worst about the motives of his heart (i.e.- the "Bush started a war for personal gain" theory) and comparing him to people like Adolph Hitler. Those assertions are far different than an objective discussion of his job competency, which I welcome.
Fair enough ThefirstbigW Just to set things straight: It was not me who made that direct comparison. And I think the person who did make that comparison was trying to get us fired up enough to want to think & respond. I really don't think it was implied as a direct comparison (maybe I'm wrong?).

Anyhow, if the topic is whether or not Bush is like Hitler; I say yes and no. Yes, because they both believe(d) in their actions and motives. Yes, because they both believe(d) that they are/were doing this for the benefit of their respective countries. Yes because they both have tried to incorporate religion in their decision making & have tried to justify their decisions thru their religious beliefs. Yes, because they both have gone to a 'win at any cost' mentality.
No....they are not the same because Hitler set out to erase an entire group of people. That was his focus. Bush? well....I think he was/is really a pawn (which in a sense makes him more dangerous. Perhaps religion (not spirituality) makes him blind to the point that he cannot see that he's walking over dead bodies; that he actually has blood on his hands.), but also had his and his family's personal interest as a primary focus; Oil and money for personal gain justified by the fight against terrorism, religion (A 'God is on our side, not our enemy' type of mentality) his attempt to correlate 9/11 and Iraq (which failed), and perhaps pressure from military leaders wanting to flex muscle and secure an important stronghold in the middle east in order to set up a base & become a dominant force for future business/financial gain. CONTROL!!

I don't think Bush took the time to fathom the consequences. I don't think he could envision the devastation his approval caused; in a U2 vernacular- a Bloody Sunday.... x 1000, perhaps. Children who had seen their mothers shot, fathers never to return home, 'brothers/sisters torn apart'. You get the picture? (This is what our news won't let us see.) I at least hope for his sake as he will eventually be judged by God, that he didn't rationalize what Hell his approval to instigate war would cause. Maybe he could just get thru the pearly gates if he blamed it on stupidity? But I doubt he was stupid enough to not know what would happen.
Ok...so this is a U2 site. I will answer this w/a U2 song: "Peace on Earth".
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Old 09-16-2004, 08:36 PM   #51
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Peace on Earth. The words are so poignant. I will paraphrase.

How could we as a nation be blinded and convinced to go along with bush's war approval?

The answer is, "They say that what you mock will surely overtake you. And you become a monster so the monster will not break you" It does not of course justify anything. It just states and explains how weak we were as a nation to allow ourselves to become 'the monster'.

And I say (we all should say) to Bush and the U.S. government , who in my opinion has been trying to 'play God', "Tell the ones who hear no sound, whose sons are living in the ground- Peace on earth". "No one cries like a mother cries for peace on Earth. She never got to say goodbye, to see the color in his eyes. Now he'sin the dirt-that's peace on Earth." "They're reading names out over the radio. All the folks the rest of us won't get to know...Sean and Julia, Gareth, Ann & Breda..THEIR LIVES ARE BIGGER THAN ANY BIG IDEA"
Bigger than OIL, bigger than CORPORATIONS (HALIBURTON), Bigger than MONEY & CONTROL.
BUSH.. what will you say before GOD when he asks if you thought about the consequences? What will you say about all the families that have been torn apart? WHAT WILL WE ALL SAY FOR NOT PREVENTING THIS. (I will at least say that I expect better decisions from our leaders, even though that's not good enough)
Again..."Their lives are bigger than any big idea".
Let's pray for peace, and pray that we make the right decisions to heal this.
And..hopefully U2 will say something about this disruption in the life-force. And in ways, I hope that their music will bring an insight to heal as well as to provide some songs that will serve as an oasis away from the current state.
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Old 09-16-2004, 10:15 PM   #52
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In this discussion whether it's about Bush's qualifications, his morals, his religion...whatever, I think we should consider his decisions & how he justifies his decisions. I think that a track record speaks volumes. I think we should elect or not elect someone (or re-elect), based on their track record and what their message is as well as how they justify their message; how they rationalize their decisions.

We should not fall into the trap of electing someone because they are a good family person or because they throw a baseball well. We should also not make the mistake of electing someone simply because they believe in God, especially when they justify any action (including KILLing) in God's name; when they want to believe so badly that they are right just because they prayed about it and later we all find out how terribly wrong it was. I am most scared of someone who originally makes decisions based on temptation and then convinces himself (in God's name) that we are in Iraq to liberate. I'm scared of someone who destroys everything in his path under the guise of freedom. Does the correct vision of freedom have to be death? Who will be left to free? The people of Iraq (living in Iraq) have to want freedom. And, they above all should be the ones who weigh the price (i.e. their families) and decide which path is best in regards to their own future; not bush, not the oil companies & not Halliburton. Not you or me.
Unfortunately we, under President bush, who believes he received approval from God are now all responsible in making their decision for them.
Hitler...maybe not. Hey.. didn't Charles Manson say God made him do it?

(Note: I'm not REALLY comparing Bush w/Manson) Did make you think for a second though, huh?
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Old 09-17-2004, 09:03 AM   #53
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I thought Charles Manson said The Beatles made him do it.

(Just trying to bring this thread back into the neighbourhood where it started, which was a MUSIC preview.)
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Old 09-17-2004, 10:14 AM   #54
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Could be..I don't know him as well as you perhaps. We were discussing music just so you know and U2's music encompasses so many things.

If you want an easier band with bubble gum topics try..Nsync!!

Hey...didn't ya notice the date of this article? That could be a very good reason why other important things have been discussed. Let's never forget this date: 9/11

Also, it sounds as if U2's new video and title is taking into account the disturbances in our world. So, deal with it
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Old 09-17-2004, 10:31 AM   #55
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Such a mature rejoinder!

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Old 09-17-2004, 11:17 AM   #56
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hehe
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Old 09-17-2004, 07:20 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by biff
I thought Charles Manson said The Beatles made him do it.

(Just trying to bring this thread back into the neighbourhood where it started, which was a MUSIC preview.)
hmmm... wasn't this a music 'ARTICLE'? It's not a preview as you've stated because it doesn't really preview anything.

Since you're being pedantic..I just thought I'd assist you.
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Old 09-17-2004, 08:10 PM   #58
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Old 09-17-2004, 08:14 PM   #59
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