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Old 07-06-2009, 11:37 PM   #76
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Seeing that the UK Top 20 lacks American country artists, I'd say that's no surprise.
Hey, you said Taylor Swift is the definition of success, not me. By the way, that US top 20 is not filled with American country artist either. In fact, Rascal Flatts are the only other one besides Taylor Swift.
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Old 07-06-2009, 11:44 PM   #77
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Hey, you said Taylor Swift is the definition of success, not me. By the way, that US top 20 is not filled with American country artist either. In fact, Rascal Flatts are the only other one besides Taylor Swift.
Doesn't matter. The US top 20 is far more likely to have country artists. You should know this already.

I can't understand how you are obviously trying to ridicule the fact that I call 'Fearless' a success. If 'Fearless' is not a commercial success, then how can you consider NLOTH to be one when it has sold less in the US and worldwide and is already on its way out of the Billboard Top 100?
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:05 AM   #78
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I understand full well how music was selling back then and outside of a few exceptions you could see the Internet starting to affect music sales as far back as when the MP3 was first conceived. The music industry was just too stupid to see it or do anything about it back then and when they started to do something about it it was far too late.

U2 has a distinct advantage when it comes to initial CD sales compared to other bands because as I said they have a much larger hardcore fan base then most bands that have stayed with them through thick and thin and will by anything just because it is U2 and not because of the actual music on the album itself.

U2 are not stupid though they were smart to start the tour in Europe because I truly believe when this tour hits the US the media is going to have a field day in dismantling it saying its megalomania all over again. Do I agree with the media, no but I can pretty much state for a fact that this is going to happen. The media works in cycles they put you up on a pedestal for a few years but after those few years they enjoy shooting you down off that pedestal even more. Also U2 have inflated their sales figure on recent albums by releasing the CD in multiple different formats that all count the same on the statistical sheet. One thing about stats is they can always be swayed in your favor by creatively making it happen that way. U2 know their fan base and they know that a portion of that fan base possibly up to 30 percent will buy multiple copies of the same album because they have to have everything. In my opinion these secondary sales have added 20-30 percent on the last 3 albums including this one. I am sure somebody will say that this number is much smaller then that but I have my doubts that it is. The older U2 gets the more of a nostalgia group they will become whether they like it or not.

You can pat U2 on the back if you like if you deem this album a success sales wise in my opinion it is not.

U2 are the last of the rock stars but basically are living off past catalog hits and reputation at this point, they will be the last super group ever to be assembled.

I will also say this the concept of an "Album" will be dead within 10 years. There will be no physical CD shops, it will be all digital and some people will choose to pay for this service and the majority will not. Therefore music is going to fall and erode even further then it already has.

I think this is one of U2s best albums its a top 3 album for me, but times have changed. U2 has been behind the times in promoting this album. Maybe it could have done better. Id have been happy if it sold as much as POP but it has not and wont.
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:05 AM   #79
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Doesn't matter. The US top 20 is far more likely to have country artists. You should know this already.
Doesn't matter. You said Taylor Swift is the definition of success.

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I can't understand how you are obviously trying to ridicule the fact that I call 'Fearless' a success. If 'Fearless' is not a commercial success, then how can you consider NLOTH to be one when it has sold less in the US and worldwide and is already on its way out of the Billboard Top 100?
Taylor Swift is not the issue here. Its your overwhelming unwillingness to see that NLOTH is in fact an extremely successful album.

Your on record here as calling NLOTH a failure after its first week of sales LOL. That first week of sales is the biggest single week of sales for any album worldwide in 2009, and the 2nd biggest week in the USA in 2009.

The fact is, NLOTH will finish out 2009 as the biggest selling album of the year or at least on of the top 5 biggest sellers of the year worldwide. So its either success on the level of Joshua Tree in 1987 or success on the level Achtung Baby in 1992 or HTDAAB in 2005.
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:17 AM   #80
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Are there any more albums coming out this year that will trouble NLOTH?

Amy Winehouse (if it's released this year) I guess

Shakira, Mika, Christina Aguilera, and Mariah Carey might be releasing this year, with the right singles they could possibly reach NLOTH's success

Any other albums out there that people can think of. Right now it seems like only Lady GaGa and Eminem have a shot, save for another album having some massive single
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:42 AM   #81
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I understand full well how music was selling back then and outside of a few exceptions you could see the Internet starting to affect music sales as far back as when the MP3 was first conceived. and wont.
If you really understood the differences in the music industry between 2000 and 2008 or 1997 and 2009, you would not be comparing the sales of POP to the sales of NLOTH. You can compare how those albums finished in their respective years, but you can't compare the actual units sold. POP sold nearly 6 million copies in 1997 and that was enough to make it the 20th biggest selling album of the year worldwide in 1997.

In 2009, NOBODY can sell 6 million copies in just 12 months. Sales of just 4 million or 4.5 million copies are so large today that an album that achieves that sales level within the year will likely be the biggest seller of the year by a good margin!

Quote:
U2 has a distinct advantage when it comes to initial CD sales compared to other bands because as I said they have a much larger hardcore fan base then most bands that have stayed with them through thick and thin and will by anything just because it is U2 and not because of the actual music on the album itself.
Its only an advantage in the first week of release and U2 are far from being the only veteran artist in the industry with such a built in advantage. Plus, although you consider it an advantage, its not one that U2 are insured to always keep. Just ask R.E.M., Def Leppard, ZZ Top, Pearl Jam, Aerosmith etc. The so called built in advantage can easily erode, and working to keep the fanbase along with attracting new fans can be equally difficult.

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U2 are not stupid though they were smart to start the tour in Europe because I truly believe when this tour hits the US the media is going to have a field day in dismantling it saying its megalomania all over again. Do I agree with the media, no but I can pretty much state for a fact that this is going to happen. The media works in cycles they put you up on a pedestal for a few years but after those few years they enjoy shooting you down off that pedestal even more.
Most reviews will probably be very positive and people will be talking about all the attendance records that U2 will be breaking. U2 have already set attendance records in Boston and the New York City area with their U2 360 shows. The Washington DC show may in fact be the largest attended concert(non-festival) on the East Coast of the United States in history.


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Also U2 have inflated their sales figure on recent albums by releasing the CD in multiple different formats that all count the same on the statistical sheet. One thing about stats is they can always be swayed in your favor by creatively making it happen that way. U2 know their fan base and they know that a portion of that fan base possibly up to 30 percent will buy multiple copies of the same album because they have to have everything. In my opinion these secondary sales have added 20-30 percent on the last 3 albums including this one. I am sure somebody will say that this number is much smaller then that but I have my doubts that it is.
There was NO special edition for "All That You Can't Leave Behind". There was only one for HTDAAB Bomb and it only accounted for around 10% of sales the first week of release, and much less after that time.

In 2009, releasing the album in multiple configerations is common, but based on the number of people who bought the special edition for HTDAAB, the number of people who buy more than one edition of the album is small.

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The older U2 gets the more of a nostalgia group they will become whether they like it or not.
That seems just to be wishful thinking on your part. Whats hot today in 2009, is what is selling the most, and right now, the biggest selling album of 2009, the one that citizens of Earth have bought the most of in 2009 is NO LINE ON THE HORIZON!

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U2 are the last of the rock stars but basically are living off past catalog hits and reputation at this point, they will be the last super group ever to be assembled.
If that were true, they would not have a new album even in the top 10 worldwide, let alone an album that had outsold every other album in 2009! When was the last time the Rolling Stones had one of the 10 biggest selling albums around the world for a given year? 1981

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I will also say this the concept of an "Album" will be dead within 10 years. There will be no physical CD shops, it will be all digital and some people will choose to pay for this service and the majority will not. Therefore music is going to fall and erode even further then it already has.
In case you did not know, digital album sales are counted in the sales totals listed above. When it comes to what people are actually willing to spend their money on, U2 are on top way ahead of the pack, even at their age and after all the time they have been in the industry.

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I think this is one of U2s best albums its a top 3 album for me, but times have changed. U2 has been behind the times in promoting this album. Maybe it could have done better.
So who has been really successful in promoting their album this year? Who is really hot this year? Well, what album has sold the most copies this year? ANSWER: NO LINE ON THE HORIZON

Best Selling Albums in 2009 WORLDWIDE as of WEEK 27

1. U2 No Line On The Horizon 3,013,000

2. Lady Gaga The Fame 2,600,000
3. Eminem Relapse 2,098,000
4. Kings Of Leon Only By The Night 1,955,000
5. Beyoncé I Am... Sasha Fierce 1,907,000
6. Taylor Swift Fearless 1,914,000
7. Soundtrack Twilight 1,818,000
8. Soundtrack Hannah Montana: The Movie 1,730,000
9. Green Day 21st Century Breakdown 1,610,000
10. Pink Funhouse 1,536,000
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Old 07-07-2009, 02:07 AM   #82
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The difference between POP and this album though is Zooropa was not a hit by a long shot and U2 had not had a hit record since Achtung Baby which was released almost 6 full years before POP and in the music industry that is an eternity. U2 are coming off 2 successful albums in ATYCLB and Bomb, so this album is basically riding the coat tails of those. I think that its a much better album myself but the fact is that it has only sold 1/3rd of what Bomb did and 1/4th of what ATYCLB did.

In the business world no matter what the circumnstances are behind those declines that would be considered a failure. Whether NLOTH is the biggest selling album of the year or not. If Coldplay sold only 3 million albums with Viva La Vida it would have been considered a failure. I hold U2 to the same standard.
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:43 AM   #83
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Everyone is selling less.

Even the hottest band of the 00s Coldplay - unless I'm missing something - sold less with Viva la vida than X and Y. And they had a hit both times.
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Old 07-07-2009, 09:51 AM   #84
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Taylor Swift's sugary country music is only for the american cowboys and cowgirls.

Please do not compare U2 with this shit.
I searched it on youtube and it sounds horrible indeed! She tries to be Susanna Hoffs, but then for 13 year olds.
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:17 AM   #85
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The difference between POP and this album though is Zooropa was not a hit by a long shot and U2 had not had a hit record since Achtung Baby which was released almost 6 full years before POP and in the music industry that is an eternity..
While Zooropa did not sell as much as Achtung in its first year, it did sell 6.5 million copies compared to Achtung's 10 million for the first year of sales. Thats a hit in most people's books unless your minimum standard for having a hit record is always the sales of Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby.

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U2 are coming off 2 successful albums in ATYCLB and Bomb, so this album is basically riding the coat tails of those.
There were 51.5 months in between the release of HTDAAB and the release of NLOTH, the longest time between new studio album releases in U2's career.

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I think that its a much better album myself but the fact is that it has only sold 1/3rd of what Bomb did and 1/4th of what ATYCLB did.
YOU CAN'T COMPARE ALBUM SALES FROM 2000 or 2004 to ALBUM SALES IN 2009! Its a totally different market environment. Top selling albums in 2009 are only selling 50% of what top selling albums were selling in 2004. The decline since 2000 is nearly 75% !

For NLOTH to sell 4.5 million copies in 2009 would be EQUAL or MORE than HTDAAB sales of 9 million in 2004-2005, because of the changed market conditions.

There is no one out there that can sell 12 million copies or 9 million copies of an album in a single year. The top selling album this year is unlikely to sell more than 4.5 million copies.

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In the business world no matter what the circumnstances are behind those declines that would be considered a failure.
If your competition in the business world cannot sell such numbers, then the fact that you can't either is NOT a failure!

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If Coldplay sold only 3 million albums with Viva La Vida it would have been considered a failure.
NO it wouldn't have! It would still have been one of the 10 biggest selling albums of 2008. Coldplay's next album could be more popular than Viva La Vida, but it is NOT going to be able to sell the same number of albums as Viva La Vida did. Most people can and do obtain their music for FREE these days!


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I hold U2 to the same standard.
What do you think is the most successful album of 2009?
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:41 PM   #86
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Maoilbheannacht, your methodical, fact-based approach is commendable. Great points!
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:13 PM   #87
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Yeah I love when people don't understand perspective, X&Y sold more copies than VLV by far, but it wasn't talked about as much or as 'popular' as VLV, things are changing.
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:31 PM   #88
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Yeah I love when people don't understand perspective, X&Y sold more copies than VLV by far, but it wasn't talked about as much or as 'popular' as VLV, things are changing.
I think Coldplay are a great example of this, despite Viva la Vida selling less it was most definitely a much bigger album than X&Y. NLOTH needs to sell 4.5-5 million copies to match Bomb and about 6 million to match Viva la Vida.
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Old 07-07-2009, 02:16 PM   #89
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I think Coldplay are a great example of this, despite Viva la Vida selling less it was most definitely a much bigger album than X&Y. NLOTH needs to sell 4.5-5 million copies to match Bomb and about 6 million to match Viva la Vida.
Yep. 4,5 M is feasible for NLOTH. 6 M, well, I would love to see that happening but it´s unlikely.
If I´m not mistaken X&Y sold about 1 M more than HTDAAB so asking NLOTH to match VLV sales (which all of us deem as a more successful album than X&Y) is not quite "fair"
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Old 07-07-2009, 02:25 PM   #90
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Are there any more albums coming out this year that will trouble NLOTH?

Amy Winehouse (if it's released this year) I guess

Shakira, Mika, Christina Aguilera, and Mariah Carey might be releasing this year, with the right singles they could possibly reach NLOTH's success

Any other albums out there that people can think of. Right now it seems like only Lady GaGa and Eminem have a shot, save for another album having some massive single
It depends on the exact date those albums are going to be released. If its late october/november, I don´t see how any of them will be able to sell 4 millon copies which at this point seems to be a reasonable figure for NLOTH come next December. Ok, I´m extrapolating mediatraffic results here and consider that NLOTH has already sold nearly 3,3 M worldwide so it´s 0.7 M more to go. Still, don´t see how an album released in late october will be able to sell 3,8 M before the end of the year.
I wouldn´t discount Eminem yet but it looks like he´s having a weekly decline in sales steeper than what U2 had back in April.

So, yes, right now Lady Gaga is the other contender for biggest selling album of 2009.
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