U2 360 TOUR: Sellouts, Attendance, other statistics

[Maoilbheannacht]

In fact, the combination of overall album sales & inflation since the end of their record-breaking $558 million grossing, '05-'07 A Bigger Bang tour, pushes that total close to $650 million today...and will be roughly $700 million by the end of their next tour in 2011...

Unless inflation goes up in the next few years, $558 million will only equal about $650 million in 2011.

 

[solar]

It is important to remember that U2 is touring in the middle of a global financial crisis, so the results of U2360 are even more impressive.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

No it won't. Because when The Stones hit the road again in 2010, they'll break their own tour gross record, just like THEY ALWAYS DO.

In fact, the combination of overall album sales & inflation since the end of their record-breaking $558 million grossing, '05-'07 A Bigger Bang tour, pushes that total close to $650 million today...and will be roughly $700 million by the end of their next tour in 2011...

The difficulty the Rolling Stones face for their next tour and topping U2 is that if they can't increase their attendance, 4,680,000 on the last tour, then their only option will be to substantially increase their ticket prices, perhaps by roughly 50% over what they charged last time, BUT not suffer any decrease in attendance because of the higher prices. This means outside the USA/Canada increasing the average price from $105 dollars to $160 dollars. In the USA/Canada, this would mean increasing the average ticket price from $136 dollars to $210 dollars. Outside the USA/Canada, having an average ticket price of $105 dollars meant they were only able to attract an average of 39,000 people per show on the last tour. It seems that $160 dollar ticket price, especially under the current economic conditions, would decrease average attendance.

In the United States, while the Rolling Stones could certainly sellout arena's at $210 dollars a ticket, selling out multiple stadiums at $210 dollars a ticket seems rather unlikely.

The U2 360 tour will be achieving much of its increased gross over the last tour, not because of increased ticket prices, but because of increased attendance. The projections are for a $600 million to $750 million gross, with 6 million to 7 million in attendance. Essentially, U2 is nearly doubling the gross they made on the last tour by increasing the attendance level by 50%. Average attendance per show is making a dramatic increase on U2 360 over the Vertigo Tour. It will in fact have both the highest average attendance and highest average gross of any U2 tour ever, and probably any tour ever. By contrast, the Stones average attendance per show seems to have steadily decreased each tour since 1989.


If the Stones were able to increase their ticket prices by 50% without any decrease in attendance, then they would gross roughly $850 million on the next tour, about 13% more than some of the maximum projections for U2 360. The problem for the Stones is that attendance is likely to decrease, with such a price increase based on what has been happening on Stones tours since 1989. A 50% increase in price over the last tour may result in a 15% or more decrease in attendance. If the decrease in attendance was just 15%, it would lead to a gross of just $720 million instead of $850 million, which may be too little to surpass U2 360.

 

[fairy]

Maoil, I'm curious, what are your 15 or 20 favorite bands ever?

Sorry for the off-topic, but I wanted to know.

 

[The_acrobat]

The ONLY way the Stones will increase attendance is by officially announcing that this is "THE FINAL CHANCE EVER TO SEE THE ROLLING STONES". I know I'd like go see them next time and probably bring my wife and maybe another couple or something. That's 4 more people that didn't see them last tour. I've heard the Stones are planning on a tour going from 2010 - 2012, ending on the 50th anniversary of their first gig.

Bottom line: If the Stones play enough gigs over the course of 2010 - 2012, increase ticket prices, and advertise that it is their farewell tour... then yes, I believe they will out-gross U2 one last time.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

The ONLY way the Stones will increase attendance is by officially announcing that this is "THE FINAL CHANCE EVER TO SEE THE ROLLING STONES". I know I'd like go see them next time and probably bring my wife and maybe another couple or something. That's 4 more people that didn't see them last tour. I've heard the Stones are planning on a tour going from 2010 - 2012, ending on the 50th anniversary of their first gig.

Bottom line: If the Stones play enough gigs over the course of 2010 - 2012, increase ticket prices, and advertise that it is their farewell tour... then yes, I believe they will out-gross U2 one last time.

I agree. Announcing it as the last tour would help them increase attendance while also increasing ticket prices at the same time.

Do you have a source for the Stones next tour ending on the 50th anniversary of their first gig?

 

[Moggio]

Maloil conveniently doesn’t want to repost my posts from the UK Chart Mix Forum because they show that AC/DC is a larger than U2 is in several markets worldwide. BIG SURPRISE.

Let’s not forget that AC/DC last toured in 2001, not 2000.

And AGAIN FOR THE THIRD TIME NOW, the reason why AC/DC haven't sold out the few stadiums shows that they scheduled in the US this summer, is because they've ALREADY PLAYED the NYC and Boston metro areas...and hence are returning to these markets again. This is called a return engagement. And it's common knowledge that when an artist returns to the same metro area on any given tour, they're going to draw less than their first stop there, unless demand hasn't been met. This return OBVIOUSLY happened on the Black Ice tour, 8-9 months later - which is not nearly a year later. Also, how many shows they performed doesn’t really matter because the fact is they ALREADY PLAYED the NYC & Boston metro areas. And all that happens when you lower the prices, is that the attendances increase, not the GROSS.

The FACT is that the Rolling Stones are a HIGHER GROSSING act than U2 are, regardless of the nitpicking involved with individual markets.

The Rolling Stones DID NOT utilize the same strategy on the North American legs of their A Bigger Bang tour that U2 is now utilizing in order to enhance concert demand WORLDWIDE.

Concerts are NEVER “technically” sold out but can be “officially” sold out. There are ALWAYS tickets available, if you know where to look.

EVERYONE here who’s read Maloil / STING 2’s posts over the course of the past four or five years KNOWS that he said that the ENTIRE Vertigo tour was heavily underbooked. But of course, judging by the strategically scheduled 360 tour, this only shows to be true in the case of A HANDFUL OF MARKETS.

The combination of overall album sales AND inflation (and not just inflation) since the end of their record-breaking $558 million grossing, '05-'07 A Bigger Bang tour, pushes that total close to $650 million today...and will be roughly $700 million by the end of their next tour in 2011.

ANYONE who thinks U2 will gross more than $600 million on their 360 tour (based on 90-100 shows AND ONLY because of strategic scheduling), is completely out to lunch.

There is NO reason to believe that the next Stones tour will not eclipse their previous tours, in terms of GROSS. The Rolling Stones are a HIGHER GROSSING act than U2 are…and WILL ALWAYS BE, unless The Stones either quit or die… PERIOD.



But let’s go over a few stats, AGAIN, shall we:


The Rolling Stones:

’89’-90 Steel Wheels / Urban Jungle Tour…$170 million

‘94-’95 Voodoo Lounge Tour…$319 million

‘97-’99 Bridges To Babylon / No Security Tour…$339 million

‘02-’03 Licks Tour…$300 million (grossed slightly less than their previous tour because less shows were played in comparison)

‘05-'07 A Bigger Bang Tour…$558 million


U2:

‘92-’93 ZOO TV Tour…$167 million

‘97-’98 PopMart Tour…$172 million

‘01 Elevation Tour…$143 million

‘05-’06 Vertigo Tour…$389 million



G’night!

 

[Moggio]

It is important to remember that U2 is touring in the middle of a global financial crisis, so the results of U2360 are even more impressive.

Nope. Because if you have studied the concert business, you'd see that for the vast majority of MAJOR artists, concert demand is virtually recession proof. However, that's unless, for example, an individual market's jobless rate is extremely high, like Detroit's. This is why U2 aren't playing Detroit this year...

 

[Irishteen]

Moggio no offence but if you guys are arguing about the same thing on another board why are you doing it here too?

 

[Moggio]

Moggio no offence but if you guys are arguing about the same thing on another board why are you doing it here too?

That's a question you should ask Maloil because all I'm doing is responding to his nonsense. You see, if his nonsense stopped, then my responses would too.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

The Rolling Stones DID NOT utilize the same strategy on the North American legs of their A Bigger Bang tour that U2 is now utilizing in order to enhance concert demand WORLDWIDE.

So now your trying to claim that Michael Cohl and Live Nation did a diservice to the Rolling Stones by not "strategically scheduling shows in the North American market so as to maximize the amount of money to be made on tour?

While what they did in North America may not be the same, they did space their shows out in North America with multiple legs, and did rather odd things, like high priced arena shows in Philly and DC, and then stadium shows in Charlotesville and Hershey where they had never played before.

More importantly, the Rolling Stones used a mix of arena's and Stadiums and even some theaters, unlike U2 which using stadiums exclusively.

EVERYONE here who’s read Maloil / STING 2’s posts over the course of the past four or five years KNOWS that he said that the ENTIRE Vertigo tour was heavily underbooked. But of course, judging by the strategically scheduled 360 tour, this only shows to be true in the case of A HANDFUL OF MARKETS.

Hey, if it was said, you should be able to post a quote, but so far you have not.

ANYONE who thinks U2 will gross more than $600 million on their 360 tour (based on 90-100 shows AND ONLY because of strategic scheduling), is completely out to lunch.

Everyone should remember this quote. We can now mark MOGGIO down as predicting the maximum possible gross for U2 360 is $600 million dollars.

Yet, after just 6 shows, U2 have grossed about 10% of that figure. Average gross of the 6 shows reported is over $9,300,000. Average attendance is over 87,000.

While there will likely be several shows in North America that will gross less than $6 million, they will represent a minority on the tour and will be easily balanced out by shows in places like Paris that are grossing $10.5 million per night. The Dublin shows could be as high as $12 million per night, although the 3rd date had lower prices on the upper level.

I suspect will be able to put this prediction of a gross of no more than $600 million in the same group as predicting that there are only going to be 28,000 people at the show in Dallas Texas.

 

[CosmoKramer]

The Rolling Stones:

’89’-90 Steel Wheels / Urban Jungle Tour…$170 million

‘94-’95 Voodoo Lounge Tour…$319 million

‘97-’99 Bridges To Babylon / No Security Tour…$339 million

‘02-’03 Licks Tour…$300 million (grossed slightly less than their previous tour because less shows were played in comparison)

‘05-'07 A Bigger Bang Tour…$558 million


U2:

‘92-’93 ZOO TV Tour…$167 million

‘97-’98 PopMart Tour…$172 million

‘01 Elevation Tour…$143 million

‘05-’06 Vertigo Tour…$389 million

G’night!

For comparison purposes, do you have Bruce Springsteen and Madonna's concert grosses during the same time span? I know they both must have grossed boat loads but I am curious, especially since they were in the recent boxscore with huge numbers.

 

[The_acrobat]

My source on the Rolling Stones possible 2010-2012 tour is nothing more than message board rumors on The Rolling Stones Fan Club - It's Only Rock'n Roll. A Stones fan site similar to this, only the forums are not nearly as sophisticated. Though the rumors seem to be strong rumors, they are still rumors. I really hope the Stones do tour once more. I saw them in 1999 and it was great. I missed them on the Licks tour and the Bigger Bang tour because I didn't want to fork out the $ and have regretted it both times.

 

[powerhour24]

I'd honestly like to know why you think gross is the be all end all measurement of demand for a live act. The Vertigo Tour may be the 2nd highest grossing tour to Bigger Bang, but that tour more shows, had many unsold tickets and had all of 10 shows that weren't in North America or Europe. Vertigo sold every single ticket, had U2 charged the kind of astronomical prices the Stones did, and done a couple more shows that record would likely be theirs. And it very likely will be theirs after next year, without those prices.

And with gross being your definition of the biggest tours, U2 is far ahead of AC/DC so I don't see why this is such an argument.


This thread is about U2 360, not about the Stones or any other band.

 

[bram]

When speaking of grosses, shouldn't it be mentioned that in the 90s U2 did everything in their power to keep prices down? I was under the impression that they more or less broke even that decade, at least for Popmart. Despite accusations to the contrary, U2 is pretty careful not to whore themselves out (much more so than the RS).

 

[fedeu2]

When speaking of grosses, shouldn't it be mentioned that in the 90s U2 did everything in their power to keep prices down? I was under the impression that they more or less broke even that decade, at least for Popmart. Despite accusations to the contrary, U2 is pretty careful not to whore themselves out (much more so than the RS).

That´s right. I´m sure that for Vertigo tour U2 could have charged tickets the same prices than the Stones and still sold out (or nearly) every show.
Same for U2 360.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

When speaking of grosses, shouldn't it be mentioned that in the 90s U2 did everything in their power to keep prices down? I was under the impression that they more or less broke even that decade, at least for Popmart. Despite accusations to the contrary, U2 is pretty careful not to whore themselves out (much more so than the RS).

The band walked away with a $100 million dollar profit from POPMART. When the tour finished in March 1998, it was the 2nd highest grossing tour in history and 2nd most profitable next to the Stones 1994-1995 Voodoo Lounge tour. The profit margin since then has grown considerably and it is possible the bands profit on U2 360 alone will be greater than POPMART, Elevation and Vertigo combined!

 

[Moggio]

For comparison purposes, do you have Bruce Springsteen and Madonna's concert grosses during the same time span? I know they both must have grossed boat loads but I am curious, especially since they were in the recent boxscore with huge numbers.

They're out there. The internet is your friend.

 

[Moggio]

I'd honestly like to know why you think gross is the be all end all measurement of demand for a live act. The Vertigo Tour may be the 2nd highest grossing tour to Bigger Bang, but that tour more shows, had many unsold tickets and had all of 10 shows that weren't in North America or Europe. Vertigo sold every single ticket, had U2 charged the kind of astronomical prices the Stones did, and done a couple more shows that record would likely be theirs. And it very likely will be theirs after next year, without those prices.

And with gross being your definition of the biggest tours, U2 is far ahead of AC/DC so I don't see why this is such an argument.


This thread is about U2 360, not about the Stones or any other band.

I'll assume you're not joking.

Anyways...the ultimate reason why GROSS is the end all be all when measuring concert demand is because it's a BUSINESS. Attendance can be adjusted based on what the ticket prices and venue capacities are set at, in relation to what the GROSS is. Example (with U2 in mind):

~ If market A's gross is $6 million and the average ticket price is $200, then 30,000 tickets will be sold
~ If market A's gross is $6 million and the average ticket price is $100, then 60,000 tickets will be sold
~ If market A's gross is $6 million and the average ticket price is $50, then 120,000 tickets will be sold
~ If market A's gross is $6 million and the average ticket price is $25, then 240,000 tickets will be sold

Etc., etc., etc...

That's generally how the public react to ticket prices. And once promoters calculate the GROSS (and of course the NET profit) of any particular show, that show is priced accordingly. And hence, if promoters want a show to officially "sellout", it will officially "sellout".


Since U2 are playing stadiums (generally, 50,000-100,000 capacities) on the 360 tour, instead of mostly arenas (generally, 10,000-25,000 capacities)...like on their Elevation & Vertigo tours, you now know one of the main reasons why U2 LOWERED some of their tier prices for their current 360 tour...

And, like I've said in recent posts...AC/DC is a HIGHER GROSSING act than U2 is, in Australia, New Zealand, Germany, parts of the Mid Western US & Vancouver - based on the fact that even though U2's show will officially GROSS more than AC/DC's, AC/DC is playing, Regina, Winnipeg, Edmonton and Tacoma this summer. Whereas, U2 are ONLY playing Vancouver and NOT these relatively nearby regions...and hence, many fans from Prairie Canada and the Pacific Northwest will be traveling to Vancouver to see U2. I stated this because some here think that U2 is the larger draw everywhere...which simply isn't the case.

Also, like I've said several times before, according to the FACTS, there is NO reason to believe The Stones won't eclipse their previous tour GROSSES, since they ALWAYS have (minus one exception). And unless the 360 tour GROSSES well over $700 million (which is just not going to happen, unless many more than 100 shows are performed), then that still puts The Stones ahead of U2.

And as far as Maloil's continuous meanderings go...and remember, he was WRONG about his prediction regarding the ENTIRE (or virtually entire) Vertigo tour, where he stated it was heavily underbooked...he can nitpick all he wants but it doesn't change the FACTS.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

And as far as Maloil's continuous meanderings go...he can nitpick all he wants but it doesn't change the FACTS.

FACTS? Unlike you, I actually post REAL numbers instead of just making assumptions without any numbers.

And, like I've said in recent posts...AC/DC is a HIGHER GROSSING act than U2 is, in Australia, New Zealand, Germany, parts of the Mid Western US & Vancouver - based on the fact that even though U2's show will officially GROSS more than AC/DC's, AC/DC is playing, Regina, Winnipeg, Edmonton and Tacoma this summer. Whereas, U2 are ONLY playing Vancouver and NOT these relatively nearby regions...and hence, many fans from Prairie Canada and the Pacific Northwest will be traveling to Vancouver to see U2. I stated this because some here think that U2 is the larger draw everywhere...which simply isn't the case.

1. AC/DC has not played Australia and New Zealand yet on the Black Ice tour, so obviously there are no boxscores. U2 won't be playing Australia-New Zealand until late 2010, so no real comparison can even be made until the end of 2010.

2. The only Stadium Boxscores that AC/DC has released from the Europe so far are from two arena shows that failed to sellout in London and a stadium show in Ireland, unless of course what was released failed to make the Billboard top 10 Boxscores for the week. I think we'll be seeing U2 figures for Germany before we see any German AC/DC figures. What is AC/DC hiding?

3. The whole logic you use of above of massive numbers of fans traveling hundreds if not thousands of miles was dismissed by you when I mentioned that fact about the Rolling Stones first 19 show European leg. I mentioned the fact that Stones fans in those markets not played could have easily travelled to the shows that were played. You dismissed this by saying the fans in those cities "knew" the Stones would be returning in the summer of 2007 for a second leg. In fact, you repeated that about a billion times on the UKMIX forum.

So using your logic from the UKMIX forum, we can say that U2 fans in Edmonton, Winnepeg, and Washington state are WAITING, for U2 to come to their towns in the summer of 2010.

If AC/DC's tour promoter thought AC/DC would make significantly more money by splitting their Canadian stadium dates up, they would. But their not.

When it comes to which stadium tour will gross the most in Canada once both tours are fully completed, U2 360 will be the winner.

Also, like I've said several times before, according to the FACTS, there is NO reason to believe The Stones won't eclipse their previous tour GROSSES, since they ALWAYS have (minus one exception). And unless the 360 tour GROSSES well over $700 million (which is just not going to happen, unless many more than 100 shows are performed), then that still puts The Stones ahead of U2.

Don't worry, we already have you down as claiming the U2 360 tour CAN'T gross more than $600 million dollars from 90-100 shows and that it is impossible for U2 360 to outgross the next Stones tour.

And as far as Maloil's continuous meanderings go...he can nitpick all he wants but it doesn't change the FACTS.

Well, we can't wait for the FACTS to roll in for the shows below so we can compare them to your predictions below:

Moggio predictions for U2 360 in North America:

City/Venue/Capacity/Tickets Sold/Gross/Average Ticket Price

October

1 Charlottesville, VA - Scott Stadium (attendance: 31,000/ GROSS: $2 million/$65)
3 Raleigh - Carter Finley Stadium (attendance: 31,000/ GROSS: $2 million/$65)
12 Dallas - Cowboys Stadium (attendance: 28,000/ GROSS: $1.8 million/$65)
14 Houston - Reliant Stadium (attendance: 31,000/ GROSS:$2 million/$65)
19 Norman, OK (Oklahoma City area) - University Memorial Stadium (attendance: 31,000/ GROSS: $2 million/$65)

WOW, according to you, only 28,000 people are going to show up at the Dallas show and the GROSS is only going to be $1.8 million!!!! Average ticket price apparently is only going to be $64 dollars. With only 28,000 people in a 360 set up at Cowboys stadium, it could likely mean that with 15,000 on the field, there would only be 13,000 people in the seats. Not only would the upper ring of the stadium be completely empty, but the lower ring would be more than half empty as well. Since Cowboys Stadium has 80,000 seats in the stands, MOGGIO is predicting over 60,000 of them will be empty. Can't wait to see the real Boxscores for this one as well as pictures of the stadium during the show which according to MOGGIO should be 75% empty in the seated area.

 

[CosmoKramer]

They're out there. The internet is your friend.

The first time you post actual stats, which were very interesting i might add, and you cant even post a few extra concerts from big acts? Fine, I will search for them.

Anyway, you are starting to look like a real U2 hater and for what reason Im not sure (other than your clear dislike of Maoil). You write that attendance isn't important because it is dependant on ticket price, so Gross is the end all be all (fine, even though U2 played to 550k in just 6 shows). So, now Gross is the end all be all, and U2 will gross more than ANY ACT IN HISTORY as of the end of 2010 (even if the Stones tour next year they wont beat U2 until 2011...IF they beat U2 360). But somehow, U2's 360 gross doesnt really count as being the best because of ABC and 123??? Come on, pick a number, gross or attendance, that if U2 reached it would mean they are the biggest touring act (and dont say something stupid like 900million or 10 million attendance).

 

[beLIEve]

I wish the argument about the higest grossing/most popular live act could be given a rest. I think everyone can agree, regardless of band allegiance, that the fact that U2 have already sold 94% of the tickets for the shows on Leg 1 and 2 is AMAZING, as the world is experiencing one of the worst, if not the worst, economic disasters in history. Who knows what the environment will be like the next time they tour (if ever), or if the Stones will top U2360 with a farewell tour of sorts.

At Interference, a U2 fansite, I really don't care if someone wants to argue that AC/DC is a bigger draw in the Midwest of the U.S. or Australia...and I could care less about the Stones touring history, as well, except for where U2 ranks w/respect to all the big-grossing live acts. For a brief time, I think U2 set the all-time gross or attendance record with the Vertigo tour. I remember reading that the following Stones tour topped that. I've read from several sources that U2 should again take the top spot with the 360 tour. Maybe they'll have their record broken after a few years...so be it. Maybe the music industry never recovers from the current recession/depression and all future tours are scaled back. Who knows. 2009/2010 is U2's turn to shine on the live stage...someone else will take that spot in a year or two.

On topic, does anyone have an UPDATED list of all the shows on Legs 1 & 2, in addition to the shows that have already happened, that shows the current gigs that have already sold out, and if not, how many tickets have been sold at each show to date? I wouldn't be surprised if every show on these 1st two legs are technically announced as "sellouts", even if that's not the case. If you sell 99% of the tickets available for a 90,000+ venue, then IMHO, that show is basically a sellout. Shows with just a few thousand or less tickets available will probably sell out in the days leading up to the actual concert anyway with just a little local advertising.

Anyway, can't argue with the early results/boxscores...if this holds up, this will be U2's all-time most successful tour, and likely for any band, at least for a while. Biggest selling album released in 2009...likely highest grossing tour of all time in 2009/2010...hard to argue against U2 being the "biggest band" on the planet as of right now. Regardless of when that might change, again, IMHO, they will always be the best band in the world; the band that matters most...and for me, the only band that matters.

P.S. I realize many people feel otherwise. Doesn't change my opinion on bit. U2

 

[fedeu2]

Regardless of when that might change, again, IMHO, they will always be the best band in the world; the band that matters most...and for me, the only band that matters.

Now, I certainly can relate to the above statement

As for shows nearly sold out you´re right, that was what happened with the second show in Barcelona. A few thousands tickets had been available for weeks before the show and were finally sold the very day the show took place.

 

[Moggio]

The Rolling Stones & U2 tour grosses that I posted are REAL numbers. And ANYONE who’s studied the concert business and knows how concert demand works already knows that grosses for artists like U2 & The Stones, increase incrementally based on inflation & overall album sales percentages with each tour (with some exceptions).

The Australian leg of the Black Ice tour is THE HIGHEST GROSSING TOUR IN AUSTRALIAN HISTORY. A quick google news search can tell you that. And U2 don’t have a hope in hell in outgrossing AC/DC in their home country next year. For one, because if U2 do play Australia, they’ll only be playing Sydney and/or Melbourne, judging by the strategically scheduled 360 tour and how there’ll only be 10 or so shows left in the schedule after the UK/European & North American legs finish next year and since they’ll need room to schedule South American shows too. And simply because the way U2’s concert demand formula works there is different from other countries/territories - U2 would need TWICE the overall inflation & accumulated album sales in order to do a FULL tour of Australia to outgross themselves compared to their last stop there on the Vertigo tour…considering what inflation & their total of overall accumulated album sales are right now and will be next year when they release their next studio album.

AC/DC are doing several times the amount of stadium & arena shows in Germany than U2 are doing this year. And hence one does not even need to wait to view the Germany show boxscore results, even if they don’t happen to be released, in order to know they’re a much larger draw in Germany than U2 is. The same obviously goes for Australia.

You could only claim A HANDFUL OF MARKETS at best where the first UK/European leg of the A Bigger Bang tour was “strategically scheduled“. Whereas the WHOLE 360 tour is. And The Stones don’t need to “strategically schedule” an ENTIRE tour like U2 now does. Why? BECAUSE THE STONES ARE A LARGER DRAW THAN U2 IS. U2 haven’t played Prairie Canada PROPERLY since 1997. So the very idea that EVERY U2 fan in this region are going to “wait to see them” when they play their hometowns is COMPLETELY ABSURD.

And I NEVER said that AC/DC is a larger draw than U2 is in all of Canada, I just said they are in Vancouver.

You can post the half a dozen (or so) markets that I predicted incorrectly for the first North American leg of the 360 tour ‘til you‘re blue in the face…but just remember this: you were wrong when you said the ENTIRE (or virtually entire) Vertigo tour was heavily underbooked.

 

[Moggio]

The first time you post actual stats, which were very interesting i might add, and you cant even post a few extra concerts from big acts? Fine, I will search for them.

What am I, your Mother?

Anyway, you are starting to look like a real U2 hater and for what reason Im not sure (other than your clear dislike of Maoil).

If you want to believe the posting of FACTS makes me a U2 hater, then whatever floats your boat.

You write that attendance isn't important because it is dependant on ticket price, so Gross is the end all be all (fine, even though U2 played to 550k in just 6 shows). So, now Gross is the end all be all, and U2 will gross more than ANY ACT IN HISTORY as of the end of 2010 (even if the Stones tour next year they wont beat U2 until 2011...IF they beat U2 360).

No, because considering of the rate of inflation and overall accumulated album sales today compared to their A Bigger Bang tour in '05-'07, shows The Stones are overall STILL AHEAD of U2.

But somehow, U2's 360 gross doesnt really count as being the best because of ABC and 123??? Come on, pick a number, gross or attendance, that if U2 reached it would mean they are the biggest touring act (and dont say something stupid like 900million or 10 million attendance).

Currently, U2 would have to gross over $700 million without a "strategically scheduled" tour to top The Stones. But since their ENTIRE 360 tour is scheduled this way, topping The Stones is not going to happen, even if they do gross $700 million by the end of it because it will be through "strategic scheduling"...

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

The Australian leg of the Black Ice tour is THE HIGHEST GROSSING TOUR IN AUSTRALIAN HISTORY. A quick google news search can tell you that. And U2 don’t have a hope in hell in outgrossing AC/DC in their home country next year. For one, because if U2 do play Australia, they’ll only be playing Sydney and/or Melbourne, judging by the strategically scheduled 360 tour and how there’ll only be 10 or so shows left in the schedule after the UK/European & North American legs finish next year and since they’ll need room to schedule South American shows too. And simply because the way U2’s concert demand formula works there is different from other countries/territories - U2 would need TWICE the overall inflation & accumulated album sales in order to do a FULL tour of Australia to outgross themselves compared to their last stop there on the Vertigo tour…considering what inflation & their total of overall accumulated album sales are right now and will be next year when they release their next studio album.

Listen, when Black Ice Boxscores for Australia all come in and U2 360 Boxscores for Australia have all come in, a simple comparison will be made and then will know. Until then, your only talking claims, projections, etc., not facts.

There will be 12 to 16 shows left after U2 wraps up the 2010 legs of North America and Europe.

As for your formula's about inflation and accumulated album sales, remember your formula which said U2 album sales would have to double in order for the next U2 tour to be able to outgross the Vertigo Tour? We can repost that qoute here if you like.

You could only claim A HANDFUL OF MARKETS at best where the first UK/European leg of the A Bigger Bang tour was “strategically scheduled“. Whereas the WHOLE 360 tour is. And The Stones don’t need to “strategically schedule” an ENTIRE tour like U2 now does. Why? BECAUSE THE STONES ARE A LARGER DRAW THAN U2 IS. U2 haven’t played Prairie Canada PROPERLY since 1997. So the very idea that EVERY U2 fan in this region are going to “wait to see them” when they play their hometowns is COMPLETELY ABSURD.

Well, take a look again at the Stones 1ST LEG of Europe:

11/07/2006 Stadio Giuseppe Meazza - Milan, Italy
14/07/2006 Ernst Happel Stadion - Vienna, Austria
16/07/2006 Olympiastadion - Munich, Germany
19/07/2006 AWD Arena - Hanover, Germany
21/07/2006 Olympiastadion - Berlin, Germany
23/07/2006 Rhein Energie Stadion - Cologne, Germany
28/07/2006 Stade de France - Paris, France
31/07/2006 Amsterdam ArenA - Amsterdam, Netherlands
03/08/2006 Gottlieb-Daimler-Stadion - Stuttgart, Germany
05/08/2006 Dübendorf Airfield - Zurich, Switzerland
08/08/2006 Palais Nikaia - Nice, France
12/08/2006 Estádio do Dragão - Porto, Portugal
20/08/2006 Twickenham Stadium - London, England
22/08/2006 Twickenham Stadium - London, England
25/08/2006 Hampden Park - Glasgow, Scotland
27/08/2006 Don Valley Stadium - Sheffield, England
29/08/2006 Millennium Stadium - Cardiff, Wales
01/09/2006 Koengen - Bergen, Norway
03/09/2006 Forum Horsens Stadion - Horsens, Denmark

U2 360's FIRST LEG of Europe: 24 shows stadium shows
Stones "A Bigger Bang" FIRST LEG of Europe: 18 stadium shows and one ampitheater show

The Stones skip most of Scandinavia with only one stadium show in Denmark, and one little Ampitheater show in Norway. U2 360 1ST LEG EUROPE has TWO FULL STADIUM shows in Scandinavia.

In Eastern Europe, U2 360 1ST LEG EUROPE is playing 3 stadium shows. One in Poland and Two in Croatia. The STONES played ZERO shows in Eastern Europe on their first leg.

The Stones skipped Ireland, U2 played 3 shows there.

The Stones skipped Spain, U2 played two shows there.

While both bands did not play Belgium, U2 is playing two shows in Amsterdam and two in Paris, while the Stones only did one in each.

In Italy, U2 are playing two shows in Milan, while the Stones only played one show.

Its only in the Germany speaking countries in central Europe where the Stones seem to have any advantage at all in terms of the first legs. What this shows though is that the Stones did an equal amount of as you say, strategic scheduling.



Also, lets compare the first leg of U2 360 in North America to the stadium portion of the Stones first leg in North America on A bigger Bang.

Stones 1st Leg stadiums North America 2005:

21/08/2005 Fenway Park - Boston, MA
23/08/2005 Fenway Park - Boston, MA
26/08/2005 Rentschler Field - Hartford, CT
28/08/2005 Frank Clair Stadium at Lansdowne Park - Ottawa, ON
31/08/2005 Comerica Park - Detroit, MI
03/09/2005 Magnetic Hill Concert Site - Moncton, NB
10/09/2005 Soldier Field - Chicago, IL
15/09/2005 Giants Stadium - East Rutherford, NJ
26/09/2005 Rogers Centre - Toronto, ON
28/09/2005 PNC Park - Pittsburgh, PA
01/10/2005 Hersheypark Stadium - Hershey, PA
06/10/2005 Scott Stadium - Charlottesville, VA
08/10/2005 Wallace Wade Stadium - Durham, NC
04/11/2005 Angel Stadium of Anaheim - Anaheim, CA
11/11/2005 PETCO Park - San Diego, CA
13/11/2005 SBC Park - San Francisco, CA
15/11/2005 SBC Park - San Francisco, CA


U2 360 1ST LEG NORTH AMERICA:

September 12, 2009 Chicago, IL Soldier Field
September 13, 2009 Chicago, IL Soldier Field
September 16, 2009 Toronto, ON Rogers Centre
September 17, 2009 Toronto, ON Rogers Centre
September 20, 2009 Foxborough, MA Gillette Stadium
September 21, 2009 Foxborough, MA Gillette Stadium
September 24, 2009 East Rutherford, NJ Giants Stadium
September 25, 2009 East Rutherford, NJ Giants Stadium
September 29, 2009 Landover, MD FedEx Field
October 1, 2009 Charlottesville, VA Scott Stadium
October 3, 2009 Raleigh, NC Carter-Finley Stadium
October 6, 2009 Atlanta, GA Georgia Dome
October 9, 2009 Tampa, FL Raymond James Stadium
October 12, 2009 Arlington, TX Cowboys Stadium
October 14, 2009 Houston, TX Reliant Stadium
October 18, 2009 Norman, OK Oklahoma Memorial Stadium
October 20, 2009 Glendale, AZ University of Phoenix Stadium
October 23, 2009 Las Vegas, NV Sam Boyd Stadium
October 25, 2009 Pasadena, CA Rose Bowl
October 28, 2009 Vancouver, BC Canada BC Place Stadium


The Stones first leg only had 17 stadium shows with a standard set up. By contrast U2 360's first leg has 20 stadium shows in full 360 set up. Both tours skip around. Yes, they did play some arena shows, but with the exception of two arena shows in Philadelphia and two in Atlanta, Stones visits to markets where they did not play a stadium consisted of only ONE arena show.

You can post the half a dozen (or so) markets that I predicted incorrectly for the first North American leg of the 360 tour ‘til you‘re blue in the face…but just remember this: you were wrong when you said the ENTIRE (or virtually entire) Vertigo tour was heavily underbooked.

Once the boxscores are available, we can precisely compare your predictions to what actually happened.

As for your inaccurate alleged claim, you have yet to provide a qoute and in any event, even if your claim was true, you can't with any sort of precision prove that parts of the Vertigo tour or the whole thing was NOT underbooked.

The boxscore predictions and the actual results is a precise fact based comparison. In contrast your alleged claim is unsourced and is about something that is much more vague and difficult to prove either way.

Currently, U2 would have to gross over $700 million without a "strategically scheduled" tour to top The Stones. But since their ENTIRE 360 tour is scheduled this way, topping The Stones is not going to happen, even if they do gross $700 million by the end of it because it will be through "strategic scheduling"...

Well, now we can mark MOGGIO down as claiming that NO MATTER what U2 360 grosses, even if it grossed over 1 BILLION dollars, it will not top the Stones because according to him it was "strategically scheduled".

LOL

If and when U2 360 is shown to have outgrossed the Stones next tour, NO one is going to be claiming that they did not top the Stones.

Live Nation will do everything it can to bring in the maximum gross for any Stones or U2 tour possible. There is no special scheme, schedule, or plan that they are going to use for U2, that they would not use for the Stones especially if it would increase the amount of money the Stones would make from the tour.


In any event, a look at the Stones A Bigger Bang Tour schedule will reveal a tour as strategically scheduled as any, designed to bring in the maximum gross possible for the Rolling Stones.

 

[Mirrorballman83]

any statistics about the Berlin and Amsterdam shows?

 

[fedeu2]

What am I, your Mother?



If you want to believe the posting of FACTS makes me a U2 hater, then whatever floats your boat.



No, because considering of the rate of inflation and overall accumulated album sales today compared to their A Bigger Bang tour in '05-'07, shows The Stones are overall STILL AHEAD of U2.



Currently, U2 would have to gross over $700 million without a "strategically scheduled" tour to top The Stones. But since their ENTIRE 360 tour is scheduled this way, topping The Stones is not going to happen, even if they do gross $700 million by the end of it because it will be through "strategic scheduling"...

I guess you don´t realize how stupid you sound every time you claim the "strategic scheduling".

Oh wait, it just dawned on me: the folks in LiveNation are big U2 fans and want U2 to be the highest grossing act in the world so they are "strategically scheduling" the 360 tour. Yet, they will plan a "nonsense scheduling" for the Stones the next time they go on tour.

 

[anitram]

AC/DC is playing, Regina, Winnipeg, Edmonton and Tacoma this summer. Whereas, U2 are ONLY playing Vancouver and NOT these relatively nearby regions...and hence, many fans from Prairie Canada and the Pacific Northwest will be traveling to Vancouver to see U2.

Oh yeah, Regina and Winnipeg are "relatively" nearby, if you consider 1822 and 2232 km, respectively, to be "relatively nearby". LOL.

Hell, Winnipeg is closer to Toronto anyway.

 

[The_acrobat]

Hasn't U2 already sold way more than 28,000 tickets in Dallas? Isn't it pretty close to sold out? The only example of poor scheduling I think U2 has had is playing Dallas, Houston and OKC in the same week, and playing D.C., Charlottesville and Raleigh in the same week. But, tickets seem to be selling pretty well for those shows except OKC. Also, only 1 show in California? What's that about?