U2 360 Boxscore Discussion

[Maoilbheannacht]

Box Office Data - U2 360 TOUR

1ST LEG EUROPE

June 30, July 2, 2009
Barcelona, Spain
Camp Nou
GROSS: $19,825,497 (RECORD)
ATTENDANCE: 182,055 (RECORD)
SHOWS: 2
SELLOUTS: 2
Average Ticket Price: $108.90

July 7-8, 2009
Milan, Italy
Stadio San Siro
GROSS: $15,168,799 (RECORD)
ATTENDANCE: 153,806 (RECORD)
SHOWS: 2
SELLOUTS: 2
Average Ticket Price: $98.62

July 11-12, 2009
Paris, France
Stade De France
GROSS: $20,902,760 (RECORD)
ATTENDANCE: 186,544 (RECORD)
SHOWS: 2
SELLOUTS: 2
Average Ticket Price: $112.05

July 15, 2009
Nice, France
Stade Charles Erhmann, Nice
GROSS: $6,261,208
ATTENDANCE: 55,641
SHOWS: 1
SELLOUTS :1
Average Ticket Price: $112.53

July 18, 2009
Berlin, Germany
Olympic Stadium
GROSS: $9,169,830
ATTENDANCE: 88,265
SHOWS :1
SELLOUTS: 1
Average Ticket Price: $103.89

July 20-21, 2009
Amsterdam, Netherlands
Amsterdam ArenA
GROSS: $12,583,998
ATTENDANCE: 125,866
SHOWS :2
SELLOUTS: 2
Average Ticket Price: $99.98

July 24-25-27, 2009
Dublin, Ireland
Croke Park
GROSS: $28,815,352
ATTENDANCE: 243,198
SHOWS :3
SELLOUTS: 3
Average Ticket Price: $118.49

July 31, Aug 1, 2009
Gothenburg, SE
Ullevi Stadium
GROSS: $11,047,995
ATTENDANCE: 119,297
SHOWS :2
SELLOUTS: 2
Average Ticket Price: $92.61

August 3, 2009
Gelsenkirchen, GE
Veltins Arena
GROSS: 7,292,826
ATTENDANCE: 73,704
SHOWS: 1
SELLOUTS:1
Average Ticket Price: $98.95

U2 360 TOUR: 1ST LEG EUROPE STATS

GROSS: $131,068,265
ATTENDANCE: 1,228,376
Average Gross: $8,191,766
Average Attendance: 76,774
Average Ticket Price: $106.70
Shows: 16
Sellouts: 16

 

[andyuk]

81,000 per Croke park show is less than i thought it was going to be.

 

[andyuk]

and 62,000 for amsterdam is less than i thought

 

[andyuk]

just realised Croke park was not full 360 hence the same attendence as the vertigo tour.

Amsterdam was 55,000 for Vertigo so 360 is offering 7,000 more tickets!

 

[Irishteen]

So Croke Park didn't sell out in the end, not surprising, they kept putting extra tickets on sale right up to the show and didn't sell them

 

[Popmartijn]

So Croke Park didn't sell out in the end, not surprising, they kept putting extra tickets on sale right up to the show and didn't sell them

It didn't? According to the boxscores it did.

 

[Irishteen]

It didn't? According to the boxscores it did.

I really don't buy a sell out figure, tickets were on sale right up until the show was on, they were being made fun of in the media for it. There's no way that show sold out in my opinion

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

So Croke Park didn't sell out in the end, not surprising, they kept putting extra tickets on sale right up to the show and didn't sell them

If any tickets put on sale were not sold, it would be listed in the boxscore.

For example, also in this weeks BOXSCORE results, are results for Bruce Springsteen in Bilbao, Spain

July 26, 2009
Bilbao, Spain
Estadio San Mames
GROSS: $3,409,189
ATTENDANCE: 36,318
CAPACITY: 36,935
SHOWS: 1
SELLOUTS: 0
Average Ticket Price: $93.87
Tickets not sold: 617

 

[Irishteen]

If any tickets put on sale were not sold, it would be listed in the boxscore.

For example, also in this weeks BOXSCORE results, are results for Bruce Springsteen in Bilbao, Spain

Well then u2 magically sold out a venue in the last few seconds, if a band wanted to sell out a show they could buy the last few remaining tickets, selling all tickets doesn't mean they were sold to people who wanted to see the concert

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

I really don't buy a sell out figure, tickets were on sale right up until the show was on, they were being made fun of in the media for it. There's no way that show sold out in my opinion

Its not a matter of opinion, its a fact that all tickets put on sale were sold. The capacity for the third show might have been slightly reduced from the previous two shows. But there were several weeks that went buy when it was not possible to purchase tickets for the third show, let alone the first two. Ticket drops can happen much later after the initial allotment of tickets have been sold. For example new tickets just became available in the lower level of Cowboys Stadium in Dallas which has not had tickets available in months.

Why would anyone in the media make fun of U2 for still having tickets available on the day of the show? Did people in the media make fun of U2 when there were still tickets available for the 2nd Croke Park show in 1987, back when the stadium's capacity was 60,000 instead of 80,000?

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

Well then u2 magically sold out a venue in the last few seconds, if a band wanted to sell out a show they could buy the last few remaining tickets,

Well, then Bruce Springsteen could have bought the last 617 tickets to his show so it would have said "Soldout". Thats not the way it works.

By the way, U2 have been releasing new tickets the day of the show since 1985. The promoter tries to release only a number of tickets they feel the artist will definitely be able to sell on the day of the show.

selling all tickets doesn't mean they were sold to people who wanted to see the concert

You could say that about ANY concert in history.

 

[u2search]

I wonder what the mechanics behind those sellouts are. I was at the Amsterdam show and even after 6 PM there where tickets available. I think a concert is technically sold out when the initial bunch has been sold, and any additional tickets are only counted when they are sold, not when they become available. Does someone know?

BTW there wheren't many tickets left when I asked (forgot to ask for an estimate) so I don't rule out the possibility that they were actually sold last minute. However, there were some scalpers/fans selling second hand tickets as well, and they walked all the way to the gate with their clients to prove that their tickets were real

 

[CosmoKramer]

If any tickets put on sale were not sold, it would be listed in the boxscore.

For example, also in this weeks BOXSCORE results, are results for Bruce Springsteen in Bilbao, Spain

July 26, 2009
Bilbao, Spain
Estadio San Mames
GROSS: $3,409,189
ATTENDANCE: 36,318
CAPACITY: 36,935
SHOWS: 1
SELLOUTS: 0
Average Ticket Price: $93.87
Tickets not sold: 617

A few weeks ago Coldplay and Greenday had a few concerts listed that were far from sell outs. All shows indicated that they were not sellouts, so if BOXSCORE listings had "forced" sellouts, then we would never see non-sell outs like those or the one Maoil posted above.

 

[phommel]

I don't know if boxscore forces sellouts or the management of the bands? The band and the touring production decide how many tickets are available and become available at the last moment, depending on sight lines, etc.

I'm pretty sure that Amsterdam 2 was not sold out. Initially they were sold out, but a month before concert dates lots of extra expensive seats became available and a few hundred of them were still available just before the start of the concert. I would like to see the attendances for individual concerts. For example the total amount of attendance for both Barcelona gigs were 182,055. This number is not devidable by 2, which proves that in one of the two concerts at least one ticket less was sold

 

[phommel]

can someone explain me where I can find the boxscore listings?

 

[The_acrobat]

Yeah they used to have them on billboards site, but I can't find them anymore. I'm interested in other bands boxscore figures as well as U2's.

 

[andyuk]

If Boxscore says the concert is 'Sold Out' then this means it has sold all tickets for the show. Boxscore are not a U2 company just saying they have been sold out for marketing purposes they are an 'Official' company.

As a poster earlier stated even if only 300 tickets were not sold then 'IT WOULD NOT BE A SELLOUT'

81,000 per night at Croke Park and it was also 81,000 per night at Croke Park per Vertigo tour

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

If Boxscore says the concert is 'Sold Out' then this means it has sold all tickets for the show. Boxscore are not a U2 company just saying they have been sold out for marketing purposes they are an 'Official' company.

As a poster earlier stated even if only 300 tickets were not sold then 'IT WOULD NOT BE A SELLOUT'

81,000 per night at Croke Park and it was also 81,000 per night at Croke Park per Vertigo tour

Actually, it was a little over 82,000 per night on the Vertigo Tour for the Croke Park shows. The 3 U2 360 shows sold 243,198 tickets, while the 3 Vertigo Tour shows did 246,743. This could be for several reasons. Capacity may have been slightly reduced for the 3rd U2 360 show at Croke Park or the Claw took up more space on the field than the Vertigo stage, or also the Fire Codes on how many people are allowed on the field may have become more strict since the Vertigo Tour.

 

[powerhour24]

Does their term 'attendance' mean how many tickets were sold, or how many people go through the turnstiles? Because there's always seats here and there at concerts where the people don't show up, but that doesn't mean they don't count as being sold. This might explain the 'not divisible by 2' comment.

If the numbers were coming from U2 Limited or Live Nation I could see them being stretched, but these are from Billboard.

 

[genesis199125]

well i think to clear up any confusion, look at this way. concert promoters always want to make sure that their show will be "sold out", otherwise they risk embarrassing themselves. So what they do is, they release concert tickets in blocks.

For example, I read that last year, when Madonna announced she would play a concert at Jaz Beach in Montenegro, there would be up to 66,000 people attending. Yet when the Billboard boxscore was released, the figure was about 47,000, and the concert was listed as sold out (for the exact number, you can just look it up on google or wikipedia).

This does not mean that Live Nation decided to fudge the numbers in Madonna's favor, what it means is that, the venue had a maximum capacity of 66,000, but the promoters felt that they would not be able to sell that many tickets, so they released a total of 47,000 tickets by the beginning of the concert, all of which sold out. Even after the allotted tickets sell out, promoters might decide not to release more tickets to save the embarrassment of a non-sellout by not being able to sell a few more extra tickets.

That would explain the Barcelona boxscore, possibly because the promoters released the maximum number of tickets for the first show, however they did not release as many tickets for the second show, although all tickets that they did release were sold, once again, they did that because they did not want to risk not selling all the tix for the second show.

 

[doctorwho]

So Croke Park didn't sell out in the end, not surprising, they kept putting extra tickets on sale right up to the show and didn't sell them

It did sell out.

Keep in mind, though, that there is a minimum attendance required for any show or sporting event to be considered a "sell out". So while the stadium may have room for more, as it sold at least X number of seats, it is a sell out.

Of course, that number has to be high. It's not like selling 40,000 seats in a stadium that holds 80,000 would be a sell out. But selling 70,000 may be enough. I see this all the time when I go to sporting events as well. I also agree with Genesis199125 in that the promoters may initially release so many tickets - enough to be considered a "sell out" without being obviously low. Once those sell, the considered is considered "sold out", even though more tickets may then become available.

 

[The_acrobat]

Judging from youtube videos, these shows all at least appear to be sold out. I think they're doing a very good job at hiding the empty seats, if any. There might be a couple thousand unsold seats at concerts, but in a stadium that size, it's very easy to hide that if they're spread out. I'm not saying for sure they are doing this, but it's very possible, and why shouldn't they?

I saw the Police last year at Nationwide Arena, Columbus. Huge areas of missing seats at this concert, and there was no rear stage seating. Billboard said there were 11,000-ish tickets sold, and that the concert was sold out. However, U2 drew over 15,000 people to the same venue in 2001, also without rear stage seating, and actually did sell it out, as in no apparent empty seats. (I was there... still my favorite U2 show out of 7!!!).

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

Does their term 'attendance' mean how many tickets were sold, or how many people go through the turnstiles? Because there's always seats here and there at concerts where the people don't show up, but that doesn't mean they don't count as being sold. This might explain the 'not divisible by 2' comment.

If the numbers were coming from U2 Limited or Live Nation I could see them being stretched, but these are from Billboard.

Its tickets sold, NOT how many people come through the turnstile. U2 gets the money for the ticket regardless if the ticket holder shows up or not. Remember, this chart is first and formost about GROSS, and then ATTENDANCE.

 

[doctorwho]

It did sell out.

Once those sell, the considered is considered "sold out", even though more tickets may then become available.

Oopsy - typing too fast again. I meant to say that "Once those sell, the CONCERT is considered "sold out"...".

I also want to stress the sporting aspect again. I've been to a few baseball games lately and we can still see seats available. They'll announce the attendance and state how it's a "sell out". So my friends and I feel that there must be a minimum number used to consider the stadium sold out, even if there are a few seats still around.

Of course, we also know that some season ticket holders might not go to every game. This may account for some empty seats, but not quite as many as we observed.

But why complain? Sell outs are good!

 

[Morgoth321]

It did sell out.

Keep in mind, though, that there is a minimum attendance required for any show or sporting event to be considered a "sell out". So while the stadium may have room for more, as it sold at least X number of seats, it is a sell out.

Of course, that number has to be high. It's not like selling 40,000 seats in a stadium that holds 80,000 would be a sell out. But selling 70,000 may be enough. I see this all the time when I go to sporting events as well. I also agree with Genesis199125 in that the promoters may initially release so many tickets - enough to be considered a "sell out" without being obviously low. Once those sell, the considered is considered "sold out", even though more tickets may then become available.

So, the notion of a 'sellout' is, in the practical sense, a marketing / PR stunt rather than necessarily being precisely true? Surely if promoters can set a venue's capacity then they're basically doing everything they can to ensure that a concert is sold out - fair enough, I guess. But I know from personal experience that, no matter what the stats say, the Dublin concert I went to wasn't completely full. There were four empty seats beside me that nobody ever claimed. Does that mean that those four ticketholders went to Croke Park, had their tickets scanned, but then for some reason didn't sit where they were supposed to? Or do the Billboard figures only refer to tickets sold, and not those scanned on the night? If that's the case, then it doesn't take into account the less than face value tickets being openly scalped on O'Connell Street on Friday 24th July!

 

[ramblin rose]

If that's the case, then it doesn't take into account the less than face value tickets being openly scalped on O'Connell Street on Friday 24th July!

What difference does that make? Weren't those tickets originally sold at Face Value?

And Maoilbheannacht, given that the original thread was closed, as per forum rules this thread should not have been opened. I will leave this open for now because I received various requests to allow this discussion, but if it takes the same path as the previous one it will be closed and no other thread will be opened with this topic.

 

[Native_Son]

the Touts make me sick, take tickets away from the real fans then flog them outside illegally at twice (or more) the price, illegal yet theyre allowed to get away with it. daylight robbery

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

So, the notion of a 'sellout' is, in the practical sense, a marketing / PR stunt rather than necessarily being precisely true?

When an artist plays a venue, the seating capacity will often be different from show to show depending on lighting, stage design, and whether seats behind the stage can be used. That is why the Promoter must decide how many tickets will be released based on the number of seats available after considering multiple factors that impact that number. Thats why a "sellout" is based on the number tickets released for sell. An Arena that can normally sell up to 20,000 tickets may only have 15,000 tickets available for a show because the artist has a stage set up that blocks the view from seats behind the stage. Certain types of lighting, mixing desk, and other features can also block views.

But it is true that this allows the promoter to consider demand in deciding how many tickets to release for sell. Once a ticket is released for sell though, if it is not sold, then a sellout will not be achieved, and it will be noted in the boxscore.

But I know from personal experience that, no matter what the stats say, the Dublin concert I went to wasn't completely full. There were four empty seats beside me that nobody ever claimed.

That does not mean the tickets for those seats were not sold. Every concert has people who for one reason or another were not able to attend and were perhaps unable to re-sell their tickets.

Does that mean that those four ticketholders went to Croke Park, had their tickets scanned, but then for some reason didn't sit where they were supposed to?

Thats possible.

Or do the Billboard figures only refer to tickets sold, and not those scanned on the night?

Billboard figures only refer to tickets sold. Remember, GROSS and not Attendance, is the more important factor in Billboards figures. Whether a ticket gets scanned or not has no impact on the gross. The ticket is sold and from a commercial standpoint, its irrelevant whether or not the person who bought the ticket goes to the show or resells the ticket to someone else. The band still gets the money.

If that's the case, then it doesn't take into account the less than face value tickets being openly scalped on O'Connell Street on Friday 24th July!

It should not take that into account because it is irrelevant to whether the stadium has been soldout and how much the gross is, and how much the band will ultimately make from the show. All concerts have tickets that get re-sold below face value just prior to the show. Its the secondary ticket market. But the secondary ticket market has no impact on the band or the tour figures for any artist.



Just to show that the whole "sellout" thing is not a "PR STUNT" take a look at the following Bruce Springsteen Concerts this year:

These shows are from the Magic Tour which started in 2007. 32 shows did not sellout. Here they are:

Magic Tour:

October 25-26, 2007
Oakland
Oracle Arena
Tickets on sale: 34,859
Tickets sold: 30,818

October 29-30, 2007
Los Angeles
Los Angeles Memorial Sports Arena
Tickets on sale: 34,080
Tickets sold: 33,122

November 4, 2007
Cleveland Ohio
Quicken Loans Arena
Tickets on sale: 19,299
Tickets sold: 19,223

November 5, 2007
Detroit MI
Palace Of Auburn Hills
Tickets on sale: 19,555
Tickets sold: 14,559

November 11-12, 2007
Washington DC
Verizon Center
Tickets on sale: 36,256
Tickets sold: 35,808

November 14, 2007
Pittsburgh
Mellon Arena
Tickets on sale: 16,883
Tickets sold: 16,595

November 15, 2007
Albany NY
Times Union Center
Tickets on sale: 15,654
Tickets sold: 15,248

November 18-19, 2007
Boston
TD Banknorth Garden
Tickets on sale: 33,379
Tickets sold: 33,289

March 2, 2008
Montreal
Bell Center
Tickets on sale: 15,238
Tickets sold: 13,544

March 7, 2008
Buffalo New York
HSBC Arena
Tickets on sale: 18,875
Tickets sold: 15,364

March 10, 2008
Hempstead, NY
Nassau Coliseum
Tickets on sale: 17,561
Tickets sold: 16,518

March 22, 2008
Cincinnati
US Bank Arena
Tickets on sale: 15,754
Tickets sold: 13,032

March 24, 2008
Columbus Ohio
Schottenstein Center
Tickets on sale: 17,637
Tickets sold: 11,598

March 28, 2008
Portland Oregon
Rose Garden
Tickets on sale: 15,999
Tickets sold: 13,798

March 29, 2008
Seattle Washington
Key Arena
Tickets on sale: 15,160
Tickets sold: 15,095

April 4, 2008
Sacramento CA
Arco Arena
Tickets on sale: 15,323
Tickets sold: 12,919

April 5, 2008
San Jose CA
HP Pavillion at San Jose
Tickets on sale: 16,002
Tickets sold: 14,484

April 8, 2008
Anahiem CA
Honda Center
Tickets on sale: 17,551
Tickets sold: 13,513

April 14, 2008
Houston TX
Toyota Center
Tickets on sale: 16,585
Tickets sold: 15,692

June 14, 2008
Cardiff, United Kingdom
Millennium Stadium
Tickets on sale: 63,000
Tickets sold: 48,549

June 16, 2008
Dussoldorf Germany
LTU Arena
Tickets on sale: 45000
Tickets sold: 33196

June 18, 2008
Amsterdam
Amsterdam Arena
Tickets on sale: 36,529
Tickets sold: 36,257

June 23, 2008
Antwerpen, Belgium
Sportpaleis Antwerpen
Tickets on sale: 17,686
Tickets sold: 17,632

June 27, 2008
Paris France
Parc des Princes
Tickets on sale: 45,067
Tickets sold: 40,661

July 17, 2008
Madrid
Santiago Bernabeu
Tickets on sale: 55,000
Tickets sold: 53,783

August 2, 2008
Foxboro MA
Gillette Stadium
Tickets on sale: 50,000
Tickets sold: 48,237

August 21, 2008
Nashville Tennessee
Sommet Center
Tickets on sale: 16,000
Tickets sold: 12,349

August 24, 2008
Kansas City MO
Sprint Center
Tickets on sale: 17,004
Tickets sold: 15,747



If selling out was some easy PR STUNT, Bruce Springsteen would not have 32 shows this year that had not soldout.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

And Maoilbheannacht, given that the original thread was closed, as per forum rules this thread should not have been opened.

Since this forum came online in June 2000, there has never been a rule against opening a thread about U2 concert boxscores. Peeling of those dollar bills forum was set aside for such threads like this. New boxscores for the Dublin and Amsterdam shows were released several days ago and they were not posted on the site, so I posted the new results.

I will leave this open for now because I received various requests to allow this discussion, but if it takes the same path as the previous one it will be closed and no other thread will be opened with this topic.

How can you ban a legitimate topic about the band? Why would it be ok to discuss U2 album sales, single sales, but not U2 concert ticket sales? If you look at the history of this forum you'll find that the discussion of U2 concert ticket sales is not something new.

 

[ramblin rose]

Since this forum came online in June 2000, there has never been a rule against opening a thread about U2 concert boxscores. Peeling of those dollar bills forum was set aside for such threads like this. New boxscores for the Dublin and Amsterdam shows were released several days ago and they were not posted on the site, so I posted the new results.




How can you ban a legitimate topic about the band? Why would it be ok to discuss U2 album sales, single sales, but not U2 concert ticket sales? If you look at the history of this forum you'll find that the discussion of U2 concert ticket sales is not something new.

You missed the point entirely. The problem is not the topic, the problem was that both threads that were previously opened to discuss this topic turned into an irrelevant fight between you and another poster that no one wanted to read about. Several complaints from different users were received and a warning to given prior to the other thread being closed. If you read the FAQ it specifically says that threads should not be opened on the same topics of previously closed threads. That was why I posted a sticky so that at least members could get the information after your original thread was closed.

That is the point. If you're still unclear PM me and we can discuss the matter further.