Popmart Vs Elevation Tour

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Chizip

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This thread is a spinoff of another thread in ETYKIW, but I wanted to get STIING2's thoughts and he usually posts in here.

Which would be considered the more "successful" tour.

On one hand, Elevation "sold out" every show. On the other hand, Popmart played much larger venues and sold more tickets, but didnt sell out every show, sometimes only half capacity.

So which would be considered better, playing to a sold out show of 20,000, or playing to 35,000 people in a 60,000 stadium?
 
What is your opinion about it?
I mean, this question is really an open one in which there is no right or wrong answer. If you think that it looks better to have a sellout venue, then Elevation is more successful. If you look at the numbers and see that Popmart attracted more persons in the same cities, then Popmart is more successful.

Yeah, this is an answer which doesn't say anything, but I'm not into this 'more successful' stuff. :shrug:

C ya!

Marty (likes both apples and oranges)
 
With a large band like U2, you really don't get to see how big the demand is to seem them live until they go into the Stadiums.

POPMART is the 4th highest grossing tour of all time with 171 million dollars grossed worldwide back in 1997/1998. 4 million people saw POPMART. There were 93 POPMART shows.

Elevation had 113 shows and a gross of 145 million. About 2.3 million people were played to.

By the raw numbers, POPMART easily wins.

But Elevation did not fully reveal the true level of demand to see U2 like POPMART did because it played in smaller 20,000 seat arena's.

I would say though based on the higher ticket prices for the Elevation tour and the quick sellouts, that Elevation is the superior tour in terms of popularity.

I cannot absolutely prove it, but the evidence suggest that if there had been a Stadium option for the Elevation tour, that it would have done better (Stadium vs. Stadium) than the POPMART tour.

ATYCLB sold over 11 million copies worldwide with more than 4 million of that in the USA. In contrast POP sold 5.5 million copies worldwide with 1.5 million sold in the USA. Another clear indication of the stronger demand for all things U2 during the Elevation time frame.
 
How do you feel a U2 stadium tour would do now? Do you feel U2 should've played a stadium leg for Elevation?
 
Axver said:
How do you feel a U2 stadium tour would do now? Do you feel U2 should've played a stadium leg for Elevation?

I feel U2 should have played Arena's in the small market cities and Stadiums in the larger market cities on the Elevation tour.

For this new tour I think its important to remain flexible. Look at how the album and buzz are doing in the first few months of release and if things are good, U2 should book some stadium dates mixed in with Arena's.
 
Its weird that the #'s and $'s are getting mis-represented here.

Simple matter was that the Pop-Mart tour LOST money. That's the biggest indication of whether a tour was more successful or not.

* They were undercapacity on a lot of venues. Underselling is never good.
* Performing in third world countries required them to lower ticket prices meaning less income and a much higher expense to get the gear to the locations.
* Most importantly the "world's biggest tv screen ever" cost a LOT of money to make and they had to buy THREE of them just so they could have the time to set them up in advance before they performed. With three seperate crews setting up three screens and stages that was a huge cost.

So great tour but NOT profitable....
 
The Scientist said:
Its weird that the #'s and $'s are getting mis-represented here.

Simple matter was that the Pop-Mart tour LOST money. That's the biggest indication of whether a tour was more successful or not.

* They were undercapacity on a lot of venues. Underselling is never good.
* Performing in third world countries required them to lower ticket prices meaning less income and a much higher expense to get the gear to the locations.
* Most importantly the "world's biggest tv screen ever" cost a LOT of money to make and they had to buy THREE of them just so they could have the time to set them up in advance before they performed. With three seperate crews setting up three screens and stages that was a huge cost.

So great tour but NOT profitable....

The above is factually incorrect as I have the exact tour grosses from each show of the POPMART tour as well as the cost per day of being on tour. I also have the attendence figures for the shows as well.

#1 The band on average only had to sell 20,000 tickets per show just to break even. The tour average for each shows attendence was about 45,000.

#2 The bands biggest gross figures were actually in South America!

#3 The POPMART tour cost and average 214,000 dollars per day over the 11 month period that the tour lasted. The total Gross for the tour was 171 Million dollars. The bands net take home total was over 100 million.

#4 The POPMART tour is the 4th highest Grossing tour of all time. The tour played to over 4 million people worldwide.

#5 The only tour date that had less than 20,000 people was the Jacksonville FL show which had 15,000 people. This was the only show of the tour where the band did not break even.

#6 Even the lowest price show in Bosnia yeilded a small profit.

#7 U2 signed with tour promoter MICHAEL COHL under which the band received a guarenteed profit regardless of the performance of the tour. If money was lossed, Michael Cohl would take the hit and not U2. As it turns out, Michael Cohl made a nice profit and is more than willing to promote the next U2 tour.

#8 It is unfortunate that many media outlets made unsubstantiated claims about the success or failure of the tour without looking at the raw numbers. There were certainly many stadiums in the Southern United States and Australia and Germany that had poor attendence, but all of these shows still sold enough tickets to come out ahead except one. The vast majority of shows were very successful and U2 got the GROSS record for many Stadium venues on this tour.

#9 The largest paying Concert in History by a "SINGLE" band was performed by U2 on the POPMART tour at Reggio Emilia Italy. At that show U2 played to 150,000 fans for a sellout show that also grossed 5 million dollars. Not bad at all for one night and a world record that holds to this day. There have been festivals, free shows, and bands with opening acts that have played to more people, but no one has ever put on a paying show by themselves and drawn a crowd of the size that U2 did at Reggio.

#10 If more statistics and details are needed, I can provide them.
 
The Scientist said:
* Most importantly the "world's biggest tv screen ever" cost a LOT of money to make and they had to buy THREE of them just so they could have the time to set them up in advance before they performed. With three seperate crews setting up three screens and stages that was a huge cost.

While it was true that the "world's biggest tv screen ever" cost a lot of money, they did not have to buy/make three of then. There was only 1 Popmart screen. Yes, there were three stages, but because of the cost, there was only one screen, which traveled with the band on the plane. Although it had a much bigger surface than the Zoo TV screens, it's size was much smaller once packed in.

And while U2 lost some money in some markets (the fourth leg wasn't very profitable because of the huge transportation costs), overall they ended in the black.

C ya!

Marty
 
STING2 said:

#5 The only tour date that had less than 20,000 people was the Jacksonville FL show which had 15,000 people. This was the only show of the tour where the band did not break even.

What about the show in Perth, Western Australia?

Also, I'm curious about the attendance figures for Australia. I thought they would've sold out in a major hurry ...
 
These are the figures as reported by Sting in the Chart Sales/Statistics thread:

86. Perth February 17, 1998 Burswood Dome GROSS: $1,273,178 ATTENDANCE: 13,775

87. Melbourne February 21, 1998 Waverly Park GROSS: $1,366,510 ATTENDANCE: 23,810

88. Brisbane February 25, 1998 ANZ Stadium GROSS: $1,019,744 ATTENDANCE: 17,567

89. Sydney February 28, 1998 Football Ground GROSS: $2,236,123 ATTENDANCE: 37,976

I don't know what the capacity figures are of these dates, have to look those up in the U2 Live book.
 
The Elevation DVD was way more popular than the Popmart Video.......so at least we know which one the public prefered, right? :eyebrow:
 
Popmartijn said:
These are the figures as reported by Sting in the Chart Sales/Statistics thread:

86. Perth February 17, 1998 Burswood Dome GROSS: $1,273,178 ATTENDANCE: 13,775

87. Melbourne February 21, 1998 Waverly Park GROSS: $1,366,510 ATTENDANCE: 23,810

88. Brisbane February 25, 1998 ANZ Stadium GROSS: $1,019,744 ATTENDANCE: 17,567

89. Sydney February 28, 1998 Football Ground GROSS: $2,236,123 ATTENDANCE: 37,976

I don't know what the capacity figures are of these dates, have to look those up in the U2 Live book.

Back in 1993, the capacity of Football Stadium in Sydney was 52,000 per night (95,000 tickets sold with 9,000 unsold) and the capacity for Anz Stadium in Brisbane was 50,000 and was soldout.

Vox
 
Chizip said:
.So which would be considered better, playing to a sold out show of 20,000, or playing to 35,000 people in a 60,000 stadium?

Better? ZooTV!! Soldout arenas and stadiums! This tour sold almost 5,4 million tickets WITHOUT touring South America (PM combined figures: almost 500,000 tickets) and European countries like Poland, Israel, Greece, Finland and Rep Czech (PM combined figures for this countries: over 280,000 tickets).

Vox
 
Thanks for the stats, Marty. I think it's rather sad how U2's Popmart Australian attendance was so significantly lower than on ZooTV - didn't they play two sold out nights at the MCG? I've been there and that thing's HUGE. Biggest stadium I've ever been in, anyway. In any case, I can see why they didn't go to NZ on Popmart ... hopefully the next tour will see a major surge in popularity.
 
From atU2.com:

"We made perfectly good money in North America and Europe but we then overspent by taking the whole show to Japan, South Africa, Australia and South America. All those Southern Hemisphere territories lost money."

-- Paul McGuinness, on the PopMart Tour


"The Popmart tour suffered from poor financial controls, or, if you like, too much enthusiasm. We would sometimes have a great idea and proceed to execute it without necessarily budgeting it or seeing what the downside might be."

-- Paul McGuinness, 2001
 
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U2girl said:
From atU2.com:

"We made perfectly good money in North America and Europe but we then overspent by taking the whole show to Japan, South Africa, Australia and South America. All those Southern Hemisphere territories lost money."

-- Paul McGuinness, on the PopMart Tour


"The Popmart tour suffered from poor financial controls, or, if you like, too much enthusiasm. We would sometimes have a great idea and proceed to execute it without necessarily budgeting it or seeing what the downside might be."

-- Paul McGuinness, 2001

Indeed Japan and Australia may have lost money compared to the Gross amount of money made in those markets. South America on the other hand had most of the highest Gross and attendence figures of the entire tour. The cost of transportation down there though may have been very expensive.

Still, as a whole, the POPMART tour was the 4th highest grossing tour of all time and one of the most profitable tours over all as well.
 
Well, I just wanted to post this; seems McGuiness wasn't 100% happy with the financial aspect of the tour.

They may have made lots of money with the tour but the question is; how much did they really have after all the costs were payed for - what was the profit margin?
I mean, if every day - even when they were not playing - cost them a quarter of a million dollars, and if they had attendance problems, how did they break even, or made profit with such an elaborate and expensive tour? Were the tickets that expensive?
 
Found this from the review of U2's opening show in Las Vegas:

The tour reportedly stands to take in $225 million, with the group getting more than 50 percent. U2 also reportedly receives 45 percent of merchandise sold at its concerts.

Is that true? They get that much from tour renevue?

I think I remember reading somewhere they get 25% from album sales. Not bad either.
 
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McGuinness mentioned there were some problems outside of Europe and North America. That part of the tour only represented a total of 15 shows out of 93 and involved transportation to area's of the world that were thousands of miles away and involved dealing with currency's that were weak comparitive to Europe and North America at the time.

The POPMART tour Grossed 171 million dollars worldwide and the band received 100 million of that as was promised prior to the start of the tour by Promoter Michael Cohl. Michael Cohl is a rich promoter who has promoted The Rolling Stone and Pink Floyd Tours of the past couple of decades as well as U2's Joshua Tree Tour. Even if the tour had flopped, U2 were had a 100 million dollar guareentee from Michael Cohl. Yes, that is unusual, but its also why Michael Cohl beat out other competitors to promote the tour. He was the only one willing to take all the risk.

In any event, even Michael Cohl made money on the POPMART tour which is the 4th highest grossing tour in history. Only the Rolling Stones have had tours that Grossed more money than POPMART. While the tour cost on average 214,000 dollars a day, the average show would GROSS 1,800,000!
 
Interesting article:

"U2 Pull Plug On Live 'Mega Gigs'

by Michael Ross
The Sunday Times, 8.18.97

The rock band U2, famed for its ambitious stadium concerts, is to abandon large-scale live performances after its present tour ends.

Bono, the lead singer, says the 'mega-gigs', as popularised by Pink Floyd and The Rolling Stones, has reached the end of the road.

The Irish foursome, who have sold over 50m albums over 17 years, will arrive in Belfast on August 26 to play a concert, then play two gigs at Lansdowne Road in Dublin a week later. The group will complete their American tour in the autumn and will play about 100 shows in all.

The tour, called PopMart, mocks and exceeds the escalating excess of the stadium rock shows of the past decade. With it's motto "we believe in kitsch" the show features the largest video screen in the world, a familiar looking "golding arch" and a giant olive spiked on a 100 foot cocktail stick. It takes 250 people using 75 lorries and a Boeing 727 plane to move the 500 tons of equipment between venues.

Bono, speaking in Prague this weekend, said PopMart had already taken more money that the previous extravaganza Zoo TV, but U2 was tired of trying to top previous live achievements. He said: "I can't imagine us playing live again. I don't think we would be stupid enough to take this on again."

"I think it is as big as a live show can go. It's a shame but I can't imagine how we could advance a live show beyond PopMart. We will not bring another show the same size on the road again. The way we would like to go now is to start making some extraordinary records instead."

Bono said that to design PopMart the band became architects, film-makers and engineers to create a set which, on some nights, dwarfed the musicians in the way Hollywood effects can reduce an actor. He did not find the technology a comfort: "I'm still physically sick from nerves before going on stage."

The band appear to have decided to stop touring only last week. Last month their manager, Paul McGuinness, said U2 were already thinking about their next tour: "We have just learnt how to do this and you do not quit just after you have cracked the formula."

U2 started planning PopMart in 1995 before a wave of troubles hit their rivals. The Rolling Stones had to abandon the concluding dates on their last tour after falling out with promoters in the Far East while half the members of REM fell ill during their Monster tour two years ago.

PopMart too has been far more difficult than previous U2 tours. Volkswagen sponsored an earlier tour, sharing some enormous bills but this time Microsoft, the favoured sponsors, declined to underwrite a similar share of the ?600,000 a week running costs.

The technology has created its own nightmares, including rain seeping into the 150 foot video wall that caused some concern in Raleigh, North Carolina, to be scrapped. "The technology for the screen came into being four months before the tour began. It was still being developed while we were getting the tour into shape. It was not until one month before the start that we got a call to say that the screen worked. I just thought, "Do we really need to be doing this to ourselves?"

British journalists flown into Las Vegas to catch early shows described it as pretentious, confused and at up to ?40 ($60) a ticket, overpriced. U2 conceded that the concert was under-rehearsed. Paul Wasserman, U2's publicist, admitted that ticket sales for 20% of the dates on the North American tour had been "less than overwhelming" with one venue in Denver offering 60,000 seats only to attract fewer than 27,000 people.

Critics may say that Bono's suggestion that this will be the last big tour is either mid-tour blues or a calculated attempt to boost ticket sales.

There is another economic worry for bands such as U2: sponsor-aided tours may pay for themselves, but they are no longer enough to fulful the original aim of promoting an album. The Rolling Stones played to packed houses on their Voodoo Lounge tour, but the album failed to sell in sufficiently large numbers. Sales of Pop, the latest U2 offering, are lagging far behind previous hits such as The Joshua Tree. "
 
One more:

"U2 Does Vegas:
The band bets big as it pumps up the pageantry
Copyright ? 1997 The Boston Globe

By Steve Morse, Globe Staff, 04/25/97


Stadium tours are fast becoming an extinct species, but Irish stars U2 are defying that trend with "PopMart," a flashy, special-effects-filled super-show that opens in Las Vegas tonight. The tour has already generated more than $140 million in global ticket sales, says U2 manager Paul McGuinness, but has the rock world wondering if the band can possibly live up to the hype.

The stage includes a computerized video screen 56 feet high by 170 feet wide, a 100-foot-high golden arch above that, and a 40-foot, lemon-shaped mirror ball that moves to a second, smaller stage in the middle of the stadium. There are 500 tons of equipment that require 250 tour workers to set up and 75 trucks to transport.

"We think that drama and spectacle are absolutely part of rock 'n' roll," McGuinness said this week from Las Vegas. "And those people who thought we were going to strip things down and go back to basics are in for a big surprise."

U2's over-the-top philosophy is explored in an hour-long ABC-TV documentary tomorrow, airing at 10 p.m. on WCVB-Channel 5. Titled "U2: A Year in Pop," it will incorporate one or two songs from tonight's opening show ("Waiting for the Sun" and/or "Last Night on Earth," both from the band's new "Pop" album).

The rest of the documentary was made available to reviewers this week and, frankly, it's not that galvanizing. There's some eye-catching footage of the band on various concert tours, but the nerdy, tediously personalized narration by actor Dennis Hopper (a U2 friend) is grating. It seems like one long infomercial, not surprising since McGuinness served as executive producer.

But what jumps out from the documentary is just how confident the band is that "PopMart" will blow away any rock tour before it. That includes U2's own "Zoo TV" tour five years ago, which boasted multiple jumbo TV screens, a towering antenna, and even several automobiles hanging from the rafters.

"This show is going to walk all over `Zoo TV,'" says U2 singer Bono in the documentary. "It's not going to be as hyperactive. It's not going to be as smartass. It's going to be something the likes of which no one has ever seen before."

That kind of talk might be pushing the self-important-meter too much, but U2 has never been a bashful band. Ever since coming out of the spiritual zenith of 1987's "Joshua Tree" album (which sold 15 million copies to become the band's bestseller), band members have been on a mission to become the high-tech avatars of stadium rock. That they're a little cocky about it is part of the game.

Here's McGuinness on "PopMart" vs. "Zoo TV":

"This is bigger, better, faster, higher. I think it has a distinct difference from `Zoo TV.' This has more of a flow ... and is twice as spectacular."

Says Bono: "It doesn't seem that many people have taken up the challenge of `Zoo TV.' It feels like we're going out against ourselves in a weird way."

Adds McGuinness on the phone from Las Vegas: "The Rolling Stones are really the only other act who do anything on this kind of scale. I suppose Pink Floyd as well, but their case is a bit different because they don't even want to be seen on the stage. They are accompanying the visuals, and they admit that pretty freely."

Cynics are saying that the motive for U2's hype - and the reason the band is doing tomorrow's TV documentary - is to boost ticket sales that, while impressive, have not been as spectacular as those for "Zoo TV." That tour played three sold-out nights at Foxboro Stadium. "PopMart" is coming to Foxboro for two nights, July 1 and 2. Tickets still remain, though McGuinness says he's certain a third show will be added as momentum builds.

In the New York area, though, U2 did four stadium shows last time (two at Giants Stadium, two at Yankee Stadium), but this year the band is booked only for two at Giants Stadium, says Performance magazine senior editor Bob Grossweiner. "It still comes down to the music," Grossweiner says. "I don't think some U2 fans like their new album - and they know it's going to be rammed down their throats in concert."

Indeed, U2's new "Pop" has struggled on the charts and is currently sitting at No. 13 on Billboard's Top 200, though it rose one notch in the last week. It's a more somber, serious album than the band's glitzy, kitschy "PopMart" special effects would suggest. But McGuinness says he's still pleased with the way tickets have sold.

"Some markets are stronger than others, and some are really strong, like Chicago," he says. "I think we will clearly get three shows at Soldiers Field there. And I'm not worried about Boston, where I think we'll go to a third show. And Philadelphia will go to a second show, and New York to a third show.

"Because all the statistics are so freely available nowadays, people are in a way treating this as a test of whether or not the record industry and the music industry are in good shape," says McGuinness. "And U2, who used to just be required to save the world, are now being asked to save the industry. This is not what we signed up for."

U2 has reportedly been guaranteed $100 million-plus for the tour from Toronto promoter Michael Cohl, who also did the Stones' last two tours. It's evident, however, that U2 has spent lavishly on "PopMart." The real coup is the huge video screen, a definite advance on the smaller Nightstar screens (not Jumbotrons) that U2 used for "Zoo TV."

"The Nightstar screens were very hard to deal with, very cumbersome," says McGuinness. "They were 5 feet deep, and they were projection screens with internal projectors. What we've been able to do this time is build something that when you're standing up close to it is like a garden fence. And in its strips of steel are about a million pixels. Apparently something happened with the technology of the pixel in the last year that brought it under control and gave it true color. So we found these people who basically cracked the pixel in Montreal [Saco Controls Inc.], and they produced the control systems."

On this screen the band will flash computer graphics prepared over the past three months, along with excerpts of work by such godfathers of pop art as Roy Lichtenstein and Andy Warhol. One example is Lichtenstein's "Whaam!," about a fighter plane shooting down another fighter plane. Animation has been added to make it appear that a flame is chasing one of the planes to the back of the stadium, McGuinness says.

"When I visited Roy [Lichtenstein] and described what we'd like to do, he said, `Oh, I'd love to see that. I'd pay money to see that.' And I said, `Well, we were actually thinking of paying you some money, Roy, if this is agreeable to you."'

A controversial part of the "PopMart" stage is the golden arch that rises overhead (and to which the sound-speaker stack is attached). Some observers have wondered if it's a parody of McDonald's golden arches, but McGuinness says no.

"The McDonald's people are sort of sniffing around. They're aware of it - and they're notoriously litigious. They jump all over people who they think are infringing on their trademark," says McGuinness. "But I'm not worried about it. I don't think there's any question of that here. It looks more like the Arch of the West in St. Louis. It's just a parabolic curve."

The speaker system hanging from the arches is also unique, he says. "Instead of being in two stacks, side from side, the PA is hung from the arch. And because you're hearing the sound from one direction instead of two, it's extraordinarily clean and crisp. It's like a great big jukebox.

"All I can say is, prepare to have your mind blown."
 
I remember reading several articles like the above back in 1997. The first one has some of the negative stuff that U2 experienced unfairly back in 1997 from the media. The media also gets its facts wrong as well. The Denver show played to over 28,400 people, not under 27,000 as it claims. In addition, while the stadium in Denver can hold 60,000 people, U2 only put 45,000 tickets on sale.
 
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