Biggest Grossing Tours Of All Time

[alexvox]

Attendance = 111 000 yesterday in Mexico !

Bono y sus sueños de ser boxeador Exc?lsior

 

[Moggio]

Well, I suppose we'll see you spinning that the tour was not strategically scheduled enough to explain why Madonna did not outgross U2 360 on her next tour! LOL

Since you predicted $900 million for Madonna, she won't need openers to outgross 360 based on your 10% formula. That should put her at $810 million at a minimum.

AGAIN...

My prediction for Madonna's next tour is BASED ON THE CRITERIA WE AGREED ON. DO NOT take what I say out of context.

Bottom line, Live Nation will see to it that both artist maximize their gross on the road. So the result will determine whether they can stand up to U2 360 like you claim. No blurring, stretching, or special criteria needed.

AGAIN...THE BOTTOM LINE IS: THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY TRUE.

 

[Moggio]

Oh really, Live Nation will not maximize gross for Madonna and The Rolling Stones on their next tours. They will always do that for U2 though! WHY? Because MOGGIO said so!

I said that's NOT NECESSARILY TRUE.

 

[Moggio]

01. Snow Patrol
02. Kaiser Chiefs
03. Glasvegas
04. Damien Dempsey
05. Republic Of Loose
06. Bell X1
07. The Script
08. Elbow
09. The Hours
12. Kasabian
13. Razorlight
14. One Republic
15. Aviv Geffen
16. Interpol
18. Springbok Nude Girls
19. Amadou & Mariam
20. The Fray
21. Lenny Kravitz
22. Florence And The Machine
23. Carney
24. Arcade Fire

Ok, well show us the arena boxscores for the above acts in the markets they opened up for U2!

The fact is, NONE of the above artist are arena acts in the markets they opened for U2. Their all theater at best.


As for Muse, BEP, and Jay-Z:

Do you have arena boxscores for Jay-Z in Australia and New Zealand?

We both know Muse has yet to play any arena's in South America. They have broken out into more Arena's in North America SINCE they opened for U2 in 2009.

Say what you will about the Black Eyed Peas, but they only opened 5 shows for U2 on their 110 date tour.



The Stones openers are easily stronger! The only debatable strenth U2's openers had were with three of them, Muse, BEP and Jay-Z

But look at all the Stones openers that have played Arena's and Stadiums on their own!

01. Toots & the Maytals
02. The Black Eyed Peas
03. Alice Cooper
04. Maroon 5
05. Beck
06. Pearl Jam
07. The Smashing Pumpkins
08. Alanis Morissette
09. Christina Aguilera
10. Mötley Crüe
11. Metallica
12. Bonnie Raitt
13. Trey Anastasio
14. Dave Matthews Band
15. Living Colour
16. The Living End
17. Joss Stone
18. Nickelback
19. Buddy Guy
20. The Charlatans
21. Feeder
22. the John Mayer Trio
23. Wilco
24. Richie Kotzen
25. Our Lady Peace

You're COMPLETELY full of it. The majority of U2's openers are arena draws to some degree. Whereas, The Stones' openers aren't as strong overall. And I'm not going to post ALL the same info I've done for PAGES now. U2FanPeter and I have ALREADY provided compelling evidence (posting venues played, tour schedules, accumulative album sales formulas, etc.) and/or boxscores showing that U2's opener's are stronger than The Stones' openers.

Now, if you believe that to be wrong, it's YOUR job to prove otherwise. But I bet you can't do it. And we both know why that is, don't we?

 

[Vlad n U 2]

Get a room, both of you.

 

[Moggio]

The Police soldout two stadium shows at Fenway Park as well as a stadium show in nearby Hartford. They returned later in the year and played smaller venues in order to meet the demand that was still left in the market that had not been met by the previous shows.

No, The Police's return engagements on their 30th Anniversary tour, were mostly RECAPTURING a certain percentage of fans who already saw them earlier on the tour. This is standard procedure for most major tours, if the artist decides to play more shows. And it's interesting to note, several of those returns were VERY low. Lower than I expected. The lowest was Chicago's return. For example, if you compare the boxscore for both Wrigley Field shows in 2007 ($9,494,248) to the boxscore for their return visit, where they only played ONE night at the Allstate Arena in 2008 ($1,589,480), you'll see how low this return was. They really should have been able to gross $4-$5 million when returning to Chicago in 2008. REALLY shocking. And Boston (as well as others) suffered a similar fate...

 

[spookyz]

Attendance = 111 000 yesterday in Mexico !

Bono y sus sueños de ser boxeador Exc�lsior

En este segundo concierto la banda irlandesa logró romper el récord de 96 mil espectadores que había logrado en un show en Pasadena, al registrar en el Coloso de Santa Úrsula un total de 111 mil 200 espectadores, según cifras oficiales de la productora OCESA.

So 111,200 is the official figure for the second night?

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

What's the closest figures you have to the breakdown of ticket prices persentages for the Stones Stadium show on the licks tour?

Were all cheap Stones tickets available at the initial onsale or something done later to fill the place?

Some Europe 2009 360 dates had price tier seating maps with THOUSANDS of cheaps seats that were not behind the stage. Show me one 360 show that ONLY had cheap seaps "behind" the stage.

1. The only thing I have seen is in the link I posted above.

2. It was all from the initial on sale. Selling tickets at a reduced price after the initial on sale is somewhat new and not done by most of the big artist.

3. Well, then that means that there many seats BEHIND THE STAGE that were priced higher than $30 dollares which is impressive.

I don't remember off hand but that was somewhat of the standard for the $30 dollar ticket to be just for the behind stage area.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

Yeah...because that's what's important when calculating demand. Nothing else. Duh!



I wasn't way off FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME. It was only about $6 million off from what U2 actually grossed, considering their opener's draw. You on the other hand, were about $14 million off.

Moggio predictions for U2 360 in North America:

City/Venue/Capacity/Tickets Sold/Gross/Average Ticket Price

September

12, 13 Chicago - Soldier Field (2 shows...120,000/Sold Out/$11.5 million /$96)
16, 17 Toronto - Rogers Centre (2 shows...140,000/Sold Out/$13 million/$93)
20, 21 Foxboro, MA (Boston) - Gillette Stadium (2 shows...140,000/Sold Out/$11.5 million /$82)
24, 25, 27 E. Rutherford, NJ (NYC metro area) - Giants Stadium (3 shows...240,000/Sold Out/$19.5 million /$81)
29 Washington, DC - FedEx Field (92,000/Sold Out/$6.5 million/$71)

October

1 Charlottesville, VA - Scott Stadium (62,000/31,000/$2 million/$65)
3 Raleigh - Carter Finley Stadium (57,000/31,000/$2 million/$65)
6 Atlanta - Georgia Dome (67,000/Sold Out/$4.5 million/$67)
9 Tampa - Raymond James Stadium (65,000/54,000/$3.5 million/$65)
12 Dallas - Cowboys Stadium (80,000/28,000/$1.8 million/$65)
14 Houston - Reliant Stadium (70,000/31,000/$2 million/$65)
19 Norman, OK (Oklahoma City area) - University Memorial Stadium (82,000/31,000/$2 million/$65)
20 Glendale, AZ (Phoenix) - University Of Phoenix Stadium (63,000/Sold Out/$4.5 million/$71.50)
23 Las Vegas - Sam Boyd Stadium (37,000/Sold Out/$4.5 million/$122)
25 Pasadena, CA (LA metro area) - Rose Bowl (95,000/Sold Out/11.5 million/$121)
28 Vancouver - BC Place Stadium (60,000/Sold Out/$5.5 million/$92)

This leg should gross over $105 million.



Maoilbheannacht predictions for U2 360 tour in North America:

City/Venue/Capacity/Tickets Sold/Gross/Average Ticket Price

September

12, 13 Chicago - Soldier Field (2 shows...120,000/Sold Out/$12 million /$100)
16, 17 Toronto - Rogers Centre (2 shows...140,000/Sold Out/$14 million/$100)
20, 21 Foxboro, MA (Boston) - Gillette Stadium (2 shows...140,000/Sold Out/$14 million /$100)
24, 25 E. Rutherford, NJ (NYC metro area) - Giants Stadium (2 shows...160,000/Sold Out/$16.1 million /$100.68)
29 Washington, DC - FedEx Field (92,000/Sold Out/$9.2 million/$99.53)

October

1 Charlottesville, VA - Scott Stadium (62,000/55,000/$5.4 million/$97.70)
3 Raleigh - Carter Finley Stadium (57,000/45,000/$3.6 million/$80)
6 Atlanta - Georgia Dome (67,000/Sold Out/$6.3 million/$95)
9 Tampa - Raymond James Stadium (65,000/55,000/$5.2 million/$95)
12 Dallas - Cowboys Stadium (80,000/55,000/$5.4 million/$97.70)
14 Houston - Reliant Stadium (70,000/45,000/$4.3 million/$95)
19 Norman, OK (Oklahoma City area) - University Memorial Stadium (82,000/50,000/$4 million/$80)
20 Glendale, AZ (Phoenix) - University Of Phoenix Stadium (63,000/Sold Out/$6 million/$95)
23 Las Vegas - Sam Boyd Stadium (37,000/Sold Out/$4.5 million/$122)
25 Pasadena, CA (LA metro area) - Rose Bowl (95,000/Sold Out/9.5 million/$100)
28 Vancouver - BC Place Stadium (60,000/Sold Out/$6 million/$100)


Total gross $125.5 million from 20 shows.





RESULTS FOR U2 360 NORTH AMERICA 1ST LEG

City/Venue/Capacity/Tickets Sold/Gross/Average Ticket Price

September

12, 13 Chicago - Soldier Field (2 shows...135,872/Sold Out/$13,860,480/$102.01)
16, 17 Toronto - Rogers Centre (2 shows...115,411/Sold Out/$9,571,672/$82.94)
20, 21 Foxboro, MA (Boston) - Gillette Stadium (2 shows...138,805/Sold Out/$12,859,778/$92.65)
24, 25 E. Rutherford, NJ (NYC metro area) - Giants Stadium (2 shows...161,810/Sold Out/$16,128,950/ $99.68)
29 Washington, DC - FedEx Field (84,754/Sold Out/$6,718,315/$79.27)

October

1 Charlottesville, VA - Scott Stadium (52,433/Sold Out/$4,738,695/$90.38)
3 Raleigh - Carter Finley Stadium (55,027/Sold Out/$4,962,240/$90.18)
6 Atlanta - Georgia Dome (61,419/Sold Out/$5,746,430/$93.56)
9 Tampa - Raymond James Stadium (72,688/Sold Out/$6,399,375/$88.04)
12 Dallas - Cowboys Stadium (70,766/Sold Out/$6,664,880/$94.18)
14 Houston - Reliant Stadium (58,328/Sold Out/$5,985,101/$102.61)
19 Norman, OK (Oklahoma City area) - University Memorial Stadium (50,951/Sold Out/$4,395,085/$86.26)
20 Glendale, AZ (Phoenix) - University Of Phoenix Stadium (50,775/Sold Out/$4,912,050 /$96.74)
23 Las Vegas - Sam Boyd Stadium (42,213/Sold Out/$4,641,280/$109.95)
25 Pasadena, CA (LA metro area) - Rose Bowl (97,014 /Sold Out/$9,960,036/$102.67)
28 Vancouver - BC Place Stadium (63,802/Sold Out/$5,748,919 /$90.11)

Total gross: $123,293,286
Total attendance: 1,312,068
Shows: 20
Sellouts: 20

1. Maoilbheannacht prediction for North American GROSS for U2 360 LEG 1 was $125.5 million! That is ONLY 2.2 million off from the exact result of $123,293,286! I have NEVER been closer in accurately predicting a the gross for any tour leg by any artist than I was here! Again, I was only off by $2.2 million for the entire tour leg!

2. By contrast, you predicted a a gross of $105 million! That means you were off by $18.3 million! So its MOGGIO off by $18.3 million VS Maoilbheannacht off by just $2.2 million. If your honest, you'll admit you lost that prediction by a considerable margin.

3. Yes, I predicted that the Toronto gross would be $14 million. YOU PREDICTED IT WOULD BE $13 MILLION! The majority of the reason my prediction and your prediction were both off was because of our predicted ticket price. The ticket price in Toronto was only $82 dollars which is a rare exception on this tour which has generally averaged about $100 dollars. I went with the typical average of $100 dollars. You predicted $93 dollars. That, and attendance being 115,000 instead of 140,000 was why we were both wrong by essentially the same margin! Its also NOTHING compared to the degree of how far off you were with the Dallas Prediction. The result in Toronto was about 2/3's of what I predicted. Your predicted gross in Dallas was less than 1/3 of the actual result! So, you were way off by DOUBLE of what YOU and myself were in Toronto!

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

You already know that answer to that question. So why are you asking me and going over it AGAIN?

ONCE AGAIN, EVERY Dallas U2 show from PopMart through Vertigo U2 grossed about $1.7 million - $1.9 million. So, that's why my prediction for the 360 tour was $1.8 million, genius. It was obviously underbooked...but one of the few that actually were.

None of that matters. This is an expensive tour. To elect to play a market when you would only be able to gross $1.8 million means you would lose money! Its the reason why Arthur Fogal would not book U2 in West Virginia.

I tried to explain to you that U2's playing of just one arena show in Dallas on Vertigo was not representitive of their true popularity there but you would not listen. You kept on insisting that if the demand was, there U2 would have played another show. I told you that the scheduling and tour length at that point explain why only one show was played there. I was right.

With comparisons to the Elevation tour and POPMART, the bands popularity since those two tours in the Dallas area has massively increased. Yes, being forced to underbook Dallas on the Vertigo tour contributes some to the increased GROSS on 360, but not all. On Elevation, the band played two shows in Dallas, one in the spring, and one in the fall. The Fall show did not completed sellout. They sold about 38,000 tickets on Elevation at $80 dollar average ticket price. They also sold 38,000 tickets on POPMART. So, the bands popularity since those two tours has nearly doubled, although that was aided by the underbooking on Vertigo.

Finally, its not just Dallas that you were way off on, but also your 31,000 prediction for Houston, Norman, Raleigh, and Charlotesville. Those tour stops would have lost money as well based on your predictions. Live Nation does not book its biggest artist into markets to lose money. But that is what you predicted.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

ALL I'm saying is that if you view Nickelback's boxscores, you'll notice they were NOWHERE near the draw in 2005-2007 compared to the draw they are now. And boxscores PROVE that. Stop messing around. YOU ALREADY KNOW THAT.

NOW is irrelevant. They are not opening for the Stones or U2 NOW. I'm only looking at their concert drawing strength in 2005 to 2007 when they DID open for the Stones.

Here are Nickleback's 2006 North American tour results:

GROSS: $30,322,886
ATTENDANCE: 755,914
SHOWS: 79
Average Attendance: 9,569
Average Gross: $383,834

At least in North America, Nickleback were already a stronger concert draw than the Black Eyed Peas or Muse back in 2005-2007

Their gross in 2006 in North America placed that at #21 on the year end chart for total gross!



Dave Matthews Band also supported the Stones in El Paso Texas!

10/20/06 The Rolling Stones Dave Matthews Band 38,653 3,106,995
Sun Bowl Stadium 38,653
El Paso, TX 100%
Concert Productions International 60.00 - 350.00

Can't explain away this one by saying the Dave Matthews Band played there just a few weeks earlier!

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

In Fact, Dave Matthews Band's first concert EVER in El Paso Texas was opening for the Stones in October 2006! LOL Maybe the Stones should have opened for the Dave Matthews Band!

Here are Nickleback's 2007 North American tour results:

GROSS: $33,244,962
ATTENDANCE: 740,409
SHOWS: 53
Average Attendance: 14,518
Average Gross: $651,862

Once again, a bigger concert draw than either Muse or Black Eyed Peas.


Here are Nickleback's 2009 Noth American tour results:

GROSS: $47,400,015
ATTENDANCE: 999,578
SHOWS: 66
Average Attendance: 15,378
Average Gross: $729,231

Well, their 2009 results are certainly higher, but I would not say that they are "No Where Near" where they were in 2006-2007!

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

AGAIN...

My prediction for Madonna's next tour is BASED ON THE CRITERIA WE AGREED ON. DO NOT take what I say out of context.

AGAIN...THE BOTTOM LINE IS: THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY TRUE.

Bottom line, its a business. Live Nation does not schedule tours in such a way as to make LESS MONEY for the artist they are working for!

Oh and Madonna would be lucky if she grossed $600 million on her next tour which is FAR AWAY from the $900 million your predicting.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

You're COMPLETELY full of it. The majority of U2's openers are arena draws to some degree. Whereas, The Stones' openers aren't as strong overall. And I'm not going to post ALL the same info I've done for PAGES now. U2FanPeter and I have ALREADY provided compelling evidence (posting venues played, tour schedules, accumulative album sales formulas, etc.) and/or boxscores showing that U2's opener's are stronger than The Stones' openers.

Now, if you believe that to be wrong, it's YOUR job to prove otherwise. But I bet you can't do it. And we both know why that is, don't we?

01. Snow Patrol
02. Kaiser Chiefs
03. Glasvegas
04. Damien Dempsey
05. Republic Of Loose
06. Bell X1
07. The Script
08. Elbow
09. The Hours
12. Kasabian
13. Razorlight
14. One Republic
15. Aviv Geffen
16. Interpol
18. Springbok Nude Girls
19. Amadou & Mariam
20. The Fray
21. Lenny Kravitz
22. Florence And The Machine
23. Carney
24. Arcade Fire

None of these artist that have opened for U2 on 360 have played an arena sized venue, 15,000 to 20,000 capacity, in the markets where they opened for U2.

The biggest artist on the list above, which is ommitting BEP, Muse and Jay-Z for the moment, are Snow Patrol, The Fray, Lenny Kravitz and Arcade Fire. Snow Patrol are a theater act in all the markets they have opened for U2 on 360! Based on what I have seen, the Fray and Lenny Kravitz are the same. Arcade Fire is opening one show for U2 in Moncton.

Is JAY-Z an arena level act in Australia? I've yet to see any evidence that he is. You could argue of course that BEP is, but they only opened FIVE shows for U2. Muse is in North America at this point, but in 2009, you could argue they were not really there yet, especially in the southern markets where they opened for U2. BEP is NOT an arena act in South America and has never played to arena sized crowds in South America.

Your claims about Nickleback have just been shown to be inaccurate with factual boxscore stats. You have yet to show any boxscore stats which show that the majority of these artist are anywhere near being arena draws in the markets they opened for U2. You can only make the arena draw argument with BEP and Muse. You have not shown a single BOXSCORE for ANY other artist on U2's list that would show they are an arena act in the market where they opened for U2. NOT ONE!

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

No, The Police's return engagements on their 30th Anniversary tour, were mostly RECAPTURING a certain percentage of fans who already saw them earlier on the tour. This is standard procedure for most major tours, if the artist decides to play more shows. And it's interesting to note, several of those returns were VERY low. Lower than I expected. The lowest was Chicago's return. For example, if you compare the boxscore for both Wrigley Field shows in 2007 ($9,494,248) to the boxscore for their return visit, where they only played ONE night at the Allstate Arena in 2008 ($1,589,480), you'll see how low this return was. They really should have been able to gross $4-$5 million when returning to Chicago in 2008. REALLY shocking. And Boston (as well as others) suffered a similar fate...

Its not a shock at all because your formula is BS! If Live Nation thought there was any chance to gross another $4 to $5 million in Chicago with a return date they would not be booking the All State Arena, they would be returning to Wrigley Field!!!!!

The Police tour by the standards of other MEGA tours, (AC/DC, U2, Stones), was very compact in its time frame lasting from May 30, 2007 to August 7, 2008. Thats just 14 months. Their return to Chicago came just 10 months after their two stadium dates in July 2007.

The fact is, as an artist tours, the demand in each city will fall with each additional date on the tour. If the Wrigley Field shows had been instant sellouts, then the arena show 10 months later would have been a surprise, but that was not the case. It took a while for the 2nd stadium show to fill up showing that demand in the Chicago market was getting close to being met and that any return to the market would only be justified with playing an arena. They probably should have expected to sellout out completely in a 270 configeration for the arena, and they came very close to that.

Arthur Fogul was extremely proud with what he did with the Police, although it was difficult to determine the demand for the band after being away for a quarter of a century, it turns out that the vast majority of his estimates for what the band could do at every part of the tour turned out to be correct.

Also, the Police played BOSTON 4 times!

July 5 & 6, 2007
Chicago, IL
Wrigley Field
Capacity: 79,458
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $9,494,248
Average Ticket Price: $119.49

November 11, 2007
Boston, MA
TD BankNorth Garden
Capacity: 14,256
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $1,804,535
Average Ticket Price: $126.58

July 31, 2008
Mansfield, Massachusetts
Comcast Center
Capacity: 13,523
Attendance: Soldout
Gross: $1,352,730
Average Ticket Price: $100.03

The fact is, that unless you under play the first time your in a market on a single tour, your return results will be considerably less! If the Rolling Stones had played two stadium shows in Chicago and Boston in 2005, their return results in 2006 would have been similar to what The Police experienced!

The Fact is, the initial Rolling Stones individual stadium shows in Chicago and Boston on A Bigger Bang UNDERPLAYED the market, which allowed them to have results upon return that were not so distant from the initial shows.

 

[robbrecon72]

Bottom line is if The Rolling Stones opened for U2, it would not help U2's gross or attendance very much at all...

 

[robbrecon72]

What predictions of yours were very close as well?



If there are tickets left for most of the shows and there are, it doesn't take a genius to figure that with the 45-90,000 capacity stadiums U2 are playing...that overall, tens of thousands of tickets are still left to be sold.




Yes you are naive about this. I have no hatred or bias against U2. Though, their past three studio albums really suck ass and they're total sellouts. No offense...but do you realize what you're saying is the equivalent of a master chief (me) telling you the way it is and you (the student) are still trying to figure out how to make a hamburger correctly...

1. I predicted $130 million for U2's first USA leg, and $190 million for U2's first Euro leg.

2. I am not denying there might be tens of thousands of tickets left. I've been trying to make a point that its speculation or guessing. That's all.

3. Ok, I have to admit this one made me laugh Moggio. Are you trying to say you are a master chief or master chef cause i'm the Seabees and have served in the navy for over 15 years, so I can definitely tell you what a master chief is.. wonder who would really be telling who what to do if you are claiming to be a master chief...

 

[robbrecon72]

So 111,200 is the official figure for the second night?

probably not the official figure but close to it.

 

[robbrecon72]

Yes but 93 000 according to several other sources

yeah i've seen several sources say 93,000/100,000/120,000. U2.com said 100,000. I'm guessing it's anywhere between 100,000-115,000.

 

[Moggio]

1. Maoilbheannacht prediction for North American GROSS for U2 360 LEG 1 was $125.5 million! That is ONLY 2.2 million off from the exact result of $123,293,286! I have NEVER been closer in accurately predicting a the gross for any tour leg by any artist than I was here! Again, I was only off by $2.2 million for the entire tour leg!

2. By contrast, you predicted a a gross of $105 million! That means you were off by $18.3 million! So its MOGGIO off by $18.3 million VS Maoilbheannacht off by just $2.2 million. If your honest, you'll admit you lost that prediction by a considerable margin.

3. Yes, I predicted that the Toronto gross would be $14 million. YOU PREDICTED IT WOULD BE $13 MILLION! The majority of the reason my prediction and your prediction were both off was because of our predicted ticket price. The ticket price in Toronto was only $82 dollars which is a rare exception on this tour which has generally averaged about $100 dollars. I went with the typical average of $100 dollars. You predicted $93 dollars. That, and attendance being 115,000 instead of 140,000 was why we were both wrong by essentially the same margin! Its also NOTHING compared to the degree of how far off you were with the Dallas Prediction. The result in Toronto was about 2/3's of what I predicted. Your predicted gross in Dallas was less than 1/3 of the actual result! So, you were way off by DOUBLE of what YOU and myself were in Toronto!

ONCE AGAIN, I wasn't way off FOR THE TEN MILLIONTH TIME. I was only about $6 million off from what U2 actually grossed, CONSIDERING THEIR OPENER'S DRAW. You on the other hand, were about $14 million off.

 

[Moggio]

None of that matters.

Yes, it does. Because I was explaining to you why I made that prediction.

This is an expensive tour. To elect to play a market when you would only be able to gross $1.8 million means you would lose money! Its the reason why Arthur Fogal would not book U2 in West Virginia.

I tried to explain to you that U2's playing of just one arena show in Dallas on Vertigo was not representitive of their true popularity there but you would not listen. You kept on insisting that if the demand was, there U2 would have played another show. I told you that the scheduling and tour length at that point explain why only one show was played there. I was right.

With comparisons to the Elevation tour and POPMART, the bands popularity since those two tours in the Dallas area has massively increased. Yes, being forced to underbook Dallas on the Vertigo tour contributes some to the increased GROSS on 360, but not all. On Elevation, the band played two shows in Dallas, one in the spring, and one in the fall. The Fall show did not completed sellout. They sold about 38,000 tickets on Elevation at $80 dollar average ticket price. They also sold 38,000 tickets on POPMART. So, the bands popularity since those two tours has nearly doubled, although that was aided by the underbooking on Vertigo.

Finally, its not just Dallas that you were way off on, but also your 31,000 prediction for Houston, Norman, Raleigh, and Charlotesville. Those tour stops would have lost money as well based on your predictions. Live Nation does not book its biggest artist into markets to lose money. But that is what you predicted.

ALL I was explaining to you was why I made those predictions. So you continually bringing up the FEW markets that were underbooked is pointless, since we already know a HANDFUL were underbooked. Yet, it seems like you're trying to make it look like there were more than a few markets underbooked, but there weren't. REGARDLESS...OVERALL, I was closer than you were. Admit that and GET OVER IT.

 

[Moggio]

NOW is irrelevant. They are not opening for the Stones or U2 NOW. I'm only looking at their concert drawing strength in 2005 to 2007 when they DID open for the Stones.

Here are Nickleback's 2006 North American tour results:

GROSS: $30,322,886
ATTENDANCE: 755,914
SHOWS: 79
Average Attendance: 9,569
Average Gross: $383,834

At least in North America, Nickleback were already a stronger concert draw than the Black Eyed Peas or Muse back in 2005-2007

Their gross in 2006 in North America placed that at #21 on the year end chart for total gross!

Thanks for posting Nickelback's 2006 North American tour stats. LIKE I SAID, NICKELBACK WERE NOWHERE NEAR THE DRAW THEY WERE THEN COMPARED TO THE DRAW THEY ARE NOW. So, when they opened for the Stones, they weren't contributing more than 10% to their gross, unlike the FACT that Muse and The Black Eyed Peas were contributing at least 10% to U2's gross when they opened for them.

Dave Matthews Band also supported the Stones in El Paso Texas!

10/20/06 The Rolling Stones Dave Matthews Band 38,653 3,106,995
Sun Bowl Stadium 38,653
El Paso, TX 100%
Concert Productions International 60.00 - 350.00

Can't explain away this one by saying the Dave Matthews Band played there just a few weeks earlier!

Wow! ONE market! Congratulations!

 

[Moggio]

Bottom line, its a business. Live Nation does not schedule tours in such a way as to make LESS MONEY for the artist they are working for!

Oh and Madonna would be lucky if she grossed $600 million on her next tour which is FAR AWAY from the $900 million your predicting.

ONCE AGAIN...THE BOTTOM LINE IS: THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY TRUE. There are too many factors to consider.

 

[Moggio]

01. Snow Patrol
02. Kaiser Chiefs
03. Glasvegas
04. Damien Dempsey
05. Republic Of Loose
06. Bell X1
07. The Script
08. Elbow
09. The Hours
12. Kasabian
13. Razorlight
14. One Republic
15. Aviv Geffen
16. Interpol
18. Springbok Nude Girls
19. Amadou & Mariam
20. The Fray
21. Lenny Kravitz
22. Florence And The Machine
23. Carney
24. Arcade Fire

None of these artist that have opened for U2 on 360 have played an arena sized venue, 15,000 to 20,000 capacity, in the markets where they opened for U2.

The biggest artist on the list above, which is ommitting BEP, Muse and Jay-Z for the moment, are Snow Patrol, The Fray, Lenny Kravitz and Arcade Fire. Snow Patrol are a theater act in all the markets they have opened for U2 on 360! Based on what I have seen, the Fray and Lenny Kravitz are the same. Arcade Fire is opening one show for U2 in Moncton.

Is JAY-Z an arena level act in Australia? I've yet to see any evidence that he is. You could argue of course that BEP is, but they only opened FIVE shows for U2. Muse is in North America at this point, but in 2009, you could argue they were not really there yet, especially in the southern markets where they opened for U2. BEP is NOT an arena act in South America and has never played to arena sized crowds in South America.

Your claims about Nickleback have just been shown to be inaccurate with factual boxscore stats. You have yet to show any boxscore stats which show that the majority of these artist are anywhere near being arena draws in the markets they opened for U2. You can only make the arena draw argument with BEP and Muse. You have not shown a single BOXSCORE for ANY other artist on U2's list that would show they are an arena act in the market where they opened for U2. NOT ONE!

AGAIN...you're COMPLETELY full of it. The majority of U2's openers are arena draws to some degree. Whereas, The Stones' openers aren't as strong overall. And I'm not going to post ALL the same info I've done for PAGES now. U2FanPeter and I have ALREADY provided compelling evidence (posting venues played, tour schedules, accumulative album sales formulas, etc.) and/or boxscores showing that U2's opener's are stronger than The Stones' openers.

Now, if you believe that to be wrong, it's YOUR job to prove otherwise. But I bet you can't do it. And we both know why that is, don't we?

 

[Moggio]

Its not a shock at all because your formula is BS! If Live Nation thought there was any chance to gross another $4 to $5 million in Chicago with a return date they would not be booking the All State Arena, they would be returning to Wrigley Field!!!!!

The Police tour by the standards of other MEGA tours, (AC/DC, U2, Stones), was very compact in its time frame lasting from May 30, 2007 to August 7, 2008. Thats just 14 months. Their return to Chicago came just 10 months after their two stadium dates in July 2007.

The fact is, as an artist tours, the demand in each city will fall with each additional date on the tour. If the Wrigley Field shows had been instant sellouts, then the arena show 10 months later would have been a surprise, but that was not the case. It took a while for the 2nd stadium show to fill up showing that demand in the Chicago market was getting close to being met and that any return to the market would only be justified with playing an arena. They probably should have expected to sellout out completely in a 270 configeration for the arena, and they came very close to that.

Arthur Fogul was extremely proud with what he did with the Police, although it was difficult to determine the demand for the band after being away for a quarter of a century, it turns out that the vast majority of his estimates for what the band could do at every part of the tour turned out to be correct.

Also, the Police played BOSTON 4 times!

July 5 & 6, 2007
Chicago, IL
Wrigley Field
Capacity: 79,458
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $9,494,248
Average Ticket Price: $119.49

November 11, 2007
Boston, MA
TD BankNorth Garden
Capacity: 14,256
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $1,804,535
Average Ticket Price: $126.58

July 31, 2008
Mansfield, Massachusetts
Comcast Center
Capacity: 13,523
Attendance: Soldout
Gross: $1,352,730
Average Ticket Price: $100.03

1. The Police played Boston on THREE separate trips on their 30th Anniversary tour, not four.

2. Regardless of the fact that they returned to Chicago in 2008 only 10 months later, they STILL should have grossed $4-$5 million when returning, after grossing nearly $10 million there in 2007. But demand wasn't there and their return Chicago gross in 2008 was VERY low. It was REALLY SHOCKING. And several other markets suffered the same fate. In fact, it implies to me that if The Police were to reunite again and tour, while they'd definitely make millions, they wouldn't come close to what they made in 2007-2008...

The fact is, that unless you under play the first time your in a market on a single tour, your return results will be considerably less!

Not necessarily.

If the Rolling Stones had played two stadium shows in Chicago and Boston in 2005, their return results in 2006 would have been similar to what The Police experienced!

The Stones DID play two stadiums shows in Boston in 2005 (and one in Hartford). And while The Stones' Chicago demand would've been a bit lower than it was on their return dates in 2006 if they hadn't played underplayed Chicago in 2005, there's NO way The Stones' returns in Chicago in 2006 would've been as low as The Police's.

The Fact is, the initial Rolling Stones individual stadium shows in Chicago and Boston on A Bigger Bang UNDERPLAYED the market, which allowed them to have results upon return that were not so distant from the initial shows.

Boston (or New England) was not underplayed. But Chicago was, yes. And The Stones' return stats were impressive. Whereas, most of The Police's weren't.

 

[Moggio]

1. I predicted $130 million for U2's first USA leg...

You were even further off than Maoil was.

2. I am not denying there might be tens of thousands of tickets left. I've been trying to make a point that its speculation or guessing. That's all.

Then you arguing about it is a moot point, since there obviously ARE tens of thousands of tix left.

3. Ok, I have to admit this one made me laugh Moggio. Are you trying to say you are a master chief or master chef cause i'm the Seabees and have served in the navy for over 15 years, so I can definitely tell you what a master chief is.. wonder who would really be telling who what to do if you are claiming to be a master chief...

You know what I meant.

 

[Moggio]

In Fact, Dave Matthews Band's first concert EVER in El Paso Texas was opening for the Stones in October 2006! LOL Maybe the Stones should have opened for the Dave Matthews Band!

Hardly.

Here are Nickleback's 2007 North American tour results:

GROSS: $33,244,962
ATTENDANCE: 740,409
SHOWS: 53
Average Attendance: 14,518
Average Gross: $651,862

Once again, a bigger concert draw than either Muse or Black Eyed Peas.


Here are Nickleback's 2009 Noth American tour results:

GROSS: $47,400,015
ATTENDANCE: 999,578
SHOWS: 66
Average Attendance: 15,378
Average Gross: $729,231

Well, their 2009 results are certainly higher, but I would not say that they are "No Where Near" where they were in 2006-2007!

Actually, Nickelback didn't open for The Stones in 2007. They apparently only opened for them on the A Bigger Bang tour in Auckland, New Zealand for ONE show in 2006. So, you'd have to compare their 2005-2006 stats...

 

[spookyz]

AGAIN...you're COMPLETELY full of it. The majority of U2's openers are arena draws to some degree. Whereas, The Stones' openers aren't as strong overall. And I'm not going to post ALL the same info I've done for PAGES now. U2FanPeter and I have ALREADY provided compelling evidence (posting venues played, tour schedules, accumulative album sales formulas, etc.) and/or boxscores showing that U2's opener's are stronger than The Stones' openers.

Now, if you believe that to be wrong, it's YOUR job to prove otherwise. But I bet you can't do it. And we both know why that is, don't we?

nWhat are you talking about?! You did not prove ANYTHING.

 

[CosmoKramer]

nWhat are you talking about?! You did not prove ANYTHING.

He never does. For the past 15 pages or so, Maoil will write that Muse are not an arena draw in South America. He/ other have even posted what boxscores are available as proof of this statement. Then, like clockwork, Moggio will respond to that with "Muse are a stadium/arena draw in some markets". Instead of providing some facts to back this claim, he will write that they have sold X albums since X year, which means that their demand is that of an arena act in South America .....LOL

Then Maoil entertains this, for some reason, and will point out the FACT that their album was nowhere to be found on the South American charts. How does Moggio respond to this FACT......with something along the lines of it doesn't matter. With Moggio it's always Facts vs his theories. It really is pretty funny because he is wrong most of the time but will always write that he is almost always right. All of his predictions come with several "but if" clauses to cover his butt when it turns out he was wrong....see his $105 million predictions for NA leg 1 as an example ( apparently he was predicting just U2's gross and not the "tours" gross......LOL

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

Thanks for posting Nickelback's 2006 North American tour stats. LIKE I SAID, NICKELBACK WERE NOWHERE NEAR THE DRAW THEY WERE THEN COMPARED TO THE DRAW THEY ARE NOW. So, when they opened for the Stones, they weren't contributing more than 10% to their gross, unlike the FACT that Muse and The Black Eyed Peas were contributing at least 10% to U2's gross when they opened for them.

Wow! ONE market! Congratulations!

Well, Nickleback grossed over $30 million on tour in the United States and Canada in 2006. In 2010, Muse's gross was LESS than 70% of that figure without adjusting for inflation! Muse have yet to reach the level Nickleback were in the United States/Canada back in 2006!