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Old 01-23-2007, 03:42 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2FanPeter
The capacity of concerts at BC Place can clear 45,000, so I doubt the 35,000 figure.

I can aquire the seating/staging floorplan for BC Place Vancouver Popmart that was used by Ticketmaster.

Does the 12/09/97 fan-cam video give indication of how full the venue?

This link has a decent crowd shot: www.dropd.com/issue/82/U2/index.html(also includes 2 rare shots of a shaved-head Bono)

u2fp
U2 played to 54,254 people at the BC Place on the Joshua Tree in 1987, although I don't know if that was general admission the field or seats on the field. Yes, the BC Place can hold more than 35,000 people for a concert, but U2 only put 35,000 tickets on sale for their show and they sold 29,468 of them! Same with Mile High Stadium in Denver where they sold a little over 28,000 tickets and capacity was set at 45,000. They played the same place on ZOO TV and sold 54,000 tickets with seats on the field.

When amusement business reports capacity levels for concerts as well as whether the concert soldout or not, it is refering to the number of tickets that were put on sale, which may or may not equal the total maximum capacity for a concert in that venue. Multiple factors such as the size of the stage, lighting, sound systems, general admission or seats on the field, seats behind the stage or not, obstructed view seating or not, the number of tickets the artist wants to put on sale based on the above factors as well as demand for the artist, ALL impact how the capacity is set for each artist that plays a concert at the venue.
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Old 01-23-2007, 03:48 PM   #62
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I agree with Sting2. Another example:

U2, Primus, Disposable Heroes Of Hiphoprisy - Nov. 3-4, 1992 - B.C. Place Stadium - attendance 77 448 - capacity 83 000 (2 shows)
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Old 01-23-2007, 04:17 PM   #63
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Originally posted by STING2
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U2 played to 54,254 people at the BC Place on the Joshua Tree in 1987, although I don't know if that was general admission the field or seats on the field.
1987 Was a GA Floor. Fire regulations mean there can only slightly more people on the floor than a seated set-up.

Quote:
Yes, the BC Place can hold more than 35,000 people for a concert, but U2 only put 35,000 tickets on sale for their show and they sold 29,468 of them!
Why did they not move the stage up for a "intimate" 35,000 capacity set up, rather than having 10,000 visible empty seats that were never put onsale? The Vancouver onsale was 3 weeks after other US markets. If sales went well, they can move the stage back.

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Old 01-23-2007, 04:20 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by alexvox
I agree with Sting2. Another example:

U2, Primus, Disposable Heroes Of Hiphoprisy - Nov. 3-4, 1992 - B.C. Place Stadium - attendance 77 448 - capacity 83 000 (2 shows)
It was actually The Sugarcubes and Public Enemy.
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Old 01-23-2007, 04:27 PM   #65
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Originally posted by U2FanPeter


1987 Was a GA Floor. Fire regulations mean there can only slightly more people on the floor than a seated set-up.



Why did they not move the stage up for a "intimate" 35,000 capacity set up, rather than having 10,000 visible empty seats that were never put onsale? The Vancouver onsale was 3 weeks after other US markets. If sales went well, they can move the stage back.

u2fp
Well, you could ask that about any stadium or arena show that fails to sellout. The stage is always put at the back end of the stadium or the arena, or the back of one of the sides of the stadium or arena, unless some rare "in the round" set up is being used.

One factor may be that one might notice the fact that the massive stage has been moved up rather than the fact that a few thousand tickets here and there through out the seating went unsold. Its all a matter of what looks better, and I suppose it would be better to look like you failed to sell a few thousand tickets in a normal configuration, than to move the stage up to midfield and have people claiming you only played to half of the stadium.
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Old 01-23-2007, 08:31 PM   #66
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Originally posted by STING2
Well, you could ask that about any stadium or arena show that fails to sellout. The stage is always put at the back end of the stadium or the arena, or the back of one of the sides of the stadium or arena, unless some rare "in the round" set up is being used.


You were aware that Arenas and Stadiums have 3/4 and "Theater" set-ups, right? Some arenas/Stadiums also completely close off the balcony - like they did when Bono performed at the 1999 Net-Aid gig in NYC.

Quote:
One factor may be that one might notice the fact that the massive stage has been moved up rather than the fact that a few thousand tickets here and there through out the seating went unsold. Its all a matter of what looks better, and I suppose it would be better to look like you failed to sell a few thousand tickets in a normal configuration, than to move the stage up to midfield and have people claiming you only played to half of the stadium.
I would think a 3/4 set-up would have been preferrable for 2 reasons. The place would look full rather than acres of empty seats and 80% of the fans attending would have better sightlines.

Also, the promoter could just aquire a giant curtain to block visibility of all the unused seats behind the stage.

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Old 01-24-2007, 02:12 AM   #67
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Originally posted by U2FanPeter


You were aware that Arenas and Stadiums have 3/4 and "Theater" set-ups, right? Some arenas/Stadiums also completely close off the balcony - like they did when Bono performed at the 1999 Net-Aid gig in NYC.



I would think a 3/4 set-up would have been preferrable for 2 reasons. The place would look full rather than acres of empty seats and 80% of the fans attending would have better sightlines.

Also, the promoter could just aquire a giant curtain to block visibility of all the unused seats behind the stage.

u2fp
The movement of the stage up towards mid-field for stadium shows, or have the stage facing one of the long sides of the stadium, is rarely ever used. Moving the stage up would make sense if the attendance was really light and impossible to make it look full by spreading the sale of tickets through the venue.(example selling one row of tickets skipping the next etc) Its a balance between what looks better. Everyone will notice the movement of the stage up the field reducing the natural capacity of the venue. But its rather easy for promoters to make 50,000 capacity stadium look almost completely full with the sell of 40,000 tickets, by spreading the sell of those tickets around the stadium, so there are not large blocks of seats completely empty.

Obviously there were several stadiums shows on POPMART where moving the stage up would have made sense, especially Jacksonville where the stadium was just as large as the BC Place, but attendance there was only 14,991 , half of what it was in Vancouver.

U2 should have played just one show at the Tangerine Bowl in Orlando instead of two shows, one in Tampa and one in Jacksonville. Orlando is located in between both cities and with one show attracting fans from perhaps all three cities, they probably could have played to over 30,000 people.
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Old 01-24-2007, 02:11 PM   #68
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U2 initially only booked a 3/4 Stadium(baseball configuration) for the original Spring 2006 Hawaii concert. They went full house(football configuration) when the show was delayed 8 months and Pearl Jam was added. This would have changed sightlines for those that bought seated tickets when it was first annouced would come to Hawaii.

U2 may have changed plans for the OZ leg of Popmart. Move Perth to the Arena and perhaps skip NZ altogether.

My point is, was some of the empty seats on Popmart caused by over-ambitious and "irresponsible" promoters rather than a so-so reaction to the actual POP album and tour itself?

Do you think U2 could have sustained a full stadium show each in Vancouver/Seattle/Oregon if it were 1987 or 1992?

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Old 01-24-2007, 05:03 PM   #69
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Originally posted by U2FanPeter
U2 initially only booked a 3/4 Stadium(baseball configuration) for the original Spring 2006 Hawaii concert. They went full house(football configuration) when the show was delayed 8 months and Pearl Jam was added. This would have changed sightlines for those that bought seated tickets when it was first annouced would come to Hawaii.

U2 may have changed plans for the OZ leg of Popmart. Move Perth to the Arena and perhaps skip NZ altogether.

My point is, was some of the empty seats on Popmart caused by over-ambitious and "irresponsible" promoters rather than a so-so reaction to the actual POP album and tour itself?

Do you think U2 could have sustained a full stadium show each in Vancouver/Seattle/Oregon if it were 1987 or 1992?

u2fp
Well, there was only one promoter for the POPMART tour and that was Michael Cohl. Prior to that U2 had used a different promoter in each market they played. But U2 found that they could make huge sums of money and have a better managed tour overall if they went with a single promoter giving them a huge guarantee up front.

The fact is, by 1997, demand for U2 had dropped considerably in the United States from where it had been prior to the release of Zooropa. Zooropa was the album that actually caused U2's popularity level in the United States to fall off considerably. It only sold 2 million copies and many of the people who did buy, did not like it, at least not back then. The drop off in sales outside the United States was not as bad, and the album was more popular and respected with those who did buy it.

The next thing that contributed to the decline was the long time off between tours. The time between ZOO TV North America and POPMART North America was the longest time away in U2's history. If Zooropa had been an album that sold better and was popular and respected by the fans, this may not have been a factor at all, and may have even increased demand for a tour in 1997, but it was the opposite, and the long time off just compounded the problem.

Despite all this, if U2 had released an album that the fans and general public supported and respected like Joshua, Rattle, or Achtung, the already decreased levels of popularity and demand could have been turned around. Instead, POP was released and sold worse than Zooropa and had at least 50% who actually bought it at the time, not liking it at all. Those that were hoping that Zooropa was just a one time division, felt the band was now moving headlong in a direction that simply did not like and were unlikely to support.

So in retrospect, the band was already in trouble from a popularity standpoint prior to the release of POP, at least in the United States. The POP album continued that decline. In the United States in 1997, no one had ever charged $52.50 for a nose blead seat in a football stadium. At each show, roughly 95% of the tickets were sold at the $52.50 price. Only a few sections at the back of the stadium were sold at the $37.50 price. So with there already being huge decrease in demand, U2 came in with the highest average priced ticket for a stadium tour ever, at that point.

The tour promoters did the best they could with the situation, and I actually think they did an excellant job considering the odds that were against them. The overall tour played to almost 4 million people and was the 2nd highest grossing tour in history at that time worldwide and the 5 highest grossing tour in North American history.


I do think that U2 could have played a full stadium show in Vancouver, Seattle, and Oregon back in 1987 and 1992. In 1992, the band played two soldout shows at the Tacoma Dome as well as an arena show and two stadium shows in Vancouver. In 1987, U2's popularity in Canada was probably at its peak. They should have played shows Washington State and Oregon, as the Vancouver show would have soldout without fans from Seattle or the rest of the Northwest traveling there for the show.
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Old 01-24-2007, 05:06 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by alexvox
I think that Billboard does archive boxscore results (results are available, but requests are not free...)


Where did you obtain the concert statistic information you have posted?
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Old 01-24-2007, 08:47 PM   #71
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Originally posted by STING2


Well, there was only one promoter for the POPMART tour and that was Michael Cohl. Prior to that U2 had used a different promoter in each market they played. But U2 found that they could make huge sums of money and have a better managed tour overall if they went with a single promoter giving them a huge guarantee up front.

The fact is, by 1997, demand for U2 had dropped considerably in the United States from where it had been prior to the release of Zooropa. Zooropa was the album that actually caused U2's popularity level in the United States to fall off considerably. It only sold 2 million copies and many of the people who did buy, did not like it, at least not back then. The drop off in sales outside the United States was not as bad, and the album was more popular and respected with those who did buy it.

The next thing that contributed to the decline was the long time off between tours. The time between ZOO TV North America and POPMART North America was the longest time away in U2's history. If Zooropa had been an album that sold better and was popular and respected by the fans, this may not have been a factor at all, and may have even increased demand for a tour in 1997, but it was the opposite, and the long time off just compounded the problem.

Despite all this, if U2 had released an album that the fans and general public supported and respected like Joshua, Rattle, or Achtung, the already decreased levels of popularity and demand could have been turned around. Instead, POP was released and sold worse than Zooropa and had at least 50% who actually bought it at the time, not liking it at all. Those that were hoping that Zooropa was just a one time division, felt the band was now moving headlong in a direction that simply did not like and were unlikely to support.

So in retrospect, the band was already in trouble from a popularity standpoint prior to the release of POP, at least in the United States. The POP album continued that decline. In the United States in 1997, no one had ever charged $52.50 for a nose blead seat in a football stadium. At each show, roughly 95% of the tickets were sold at the $52.50 price. Only a few sections at the back of the stadium were sold at the $37.50 price. So with there already being huge decrease in demand, U2 came in with the highest average priced ticket for a stadium tour ever, at that point.

The tour promoters did the best they could with the situation, and I actually think they did an excellant job considering the odds that were against them. The overall tour played to almost 4 million people and was the 2nd highest grossing tour in history at that time worldwide and the 5 highest grossing tour in North American history.


I do think that U2 could have played a full stadium show in Vancouver, Seattle, and Oregon back in 1987 and 1992. In 1992, the band played two soldout shows at the Tacoma Dome as well as an arena show and two stadium shows in Vancouver. In 1987, U2's popularity in Canada was probably at its peak. They should have played shows Washington State and Oregon, as the Vancouver show would have soldout without fans from Seattle or the rest of the Northwest traveling there for the show.
Why did German dates have numerous unsold tickets on POPMART? One show was 18,000 in a venue that holds 70,000.

I read U2 Concert Chronology book and all it says is venue choice, ticket price and some bad press. Most other Euro shows seem to do well, even if less added dates were needed.

What about the claim that Europeans embraced both Zooropa and POP much more than Americans?

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Old 01-25-2007, 02:20 PM   #72
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Originally posted by U2FanPeter


Why did German dates have numerous unsold tickets on POPMART? One show was 18,000 in a venue that holds 70,000.

I read U2 Concert Chronology book and all it says is venue choice, ticket price and some bad press. Most other Euro shows seem to do well, even if less added dates were needed.

What about the claim that Europeans embraced both Zooropa and POP much more than Americans?

u2fp
I'm not sure. It seems the effect of Zooropa and POP was even worse in Germany than in the United States, plus Germany was never one of U2's stronger markets in Europe. Germany and Japan as well seem to embrace hard rock/ heavy metal music or less serious more party rock n' roll music. Metallica, Bon Jovi, The Rolling Stones always do fantastic in Germany and Japan, while U2's results are sometimes mixed. Genesis is very successful in Germany, but thats an unusual exception.

Still, U2 did fantastic with just 3 shows on the Vertigo Tour in Germany. All 3 shows soldout within hours of going on sale. U2 sold 206,000 tickets in Germany on the Vertigo tour and could have sold a lot more. They Grossed nearly 15 million dollars from the three German shows. Compare that with POPMART that played to 135,000 people and only grossed 5 million dollars, with only 1 of 5 shows selling out at a reduced capacity.

U2 did well in a lot of places on POPMART Europe. All of the Scandinanvian(Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark) shows were soldout, as well as shows in Spain, Portugal, Italy, Austria, Ireland, The Netherlands, and Poland. The Europeans were indeed more receptive to Zooropa and POP, with the exception of Germany.
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Old 01-28-2007, 06:15 PM   #73
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Originally posted by alexvox
July 27, 1997 U2 Butzweilerhof Koln, Germany $1 059 067 27 662 35 000 1 0 $46.19, $38.04

July 29, 1997 U2 Festwiese Leipzig, Germany $702 396 18 463 25 000 1 0 $38,04

July 31, 1997 U2 Maimankt Mannheim, Germany $716 281 18 828 25 000 1 0 $38,04

Aug. 18, 1997 U2 Zeppelinfeld Nuremberg, Germany $1 153 149 29 916 35 000 1 0 $38,54

Aug. 26, 1997 U2 Botanical Gardens Belfast, Northern Ireland $1 669 372 39 362 39 362 1 1 $42,40

Nov. 21, 1997 U2, Third Eye Blind Louisiana Superdome New Orleans, La. $911 528 21 465 25 000 1 0 $52.50, $26.25

Nov. 23, 1997 U2, Third Eye Blind Alamodome San Antonio, Texas $1 277 250 26 022 30 000 1 0 $52.50, $37.50

Nov. 26, 1997 U2, Smash Mouth Georgia Dome Atlanta, Ga. $1 325 288 26 491 32 500 1 0 $52.50, $26.25 TNA USA/Cellar Door Concerts

Nov. 28, 1997 U2, Smash Mouth Houston Astrodome Houston, Texas $1 156 155 22 981 30 000 1 0 $52.50, $32.50

Dec. 9, 1997 U2, Smash Mouth B.C. Place Stadium Vancouver, British Columbia $1 136 592 29 468 35 000 1 0 $55, $40

I think you have all Popmart figures
Can you please let us know your source for the missing POPMART shows and the corrected Vertigo Atlanta Boxscore? You asked what the POPMART figures were on the 21st, and then started reporting these figures were on the 22nd which indicates you found a source that had the figures. Do you contact something like Billboard? Did you pay money for the figures?

Also, the higher attendance figure for the Atlanta Vertigo show, without and adjustment in the GROSS figure, produces an unsually low average ticket price of $86 dollars?! Are you sure your figures for that particular show are correct in both attendance and GROSS?

I as these questions because some people are questioning the accuracy of the information and want to confirm for themselves the information. So it would be much appreciated if you could provide your source.

THANKS!
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Old 01-29-2007, 02:52 PM   #74
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What has pondered me for nearly 10 years now, is why was the November 19 1997 concert in Indianapolis cancelled? I was going to go to that concert, I was going to have my mom buy me tickets (I was only 15), but when she went to, it was cancelled. WHY??
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Old 01-29-2007, 02:59 PM   #75
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What has pondered me for nearly 10 years now, is why was the November 19 1997 concert in Indianapolis cancelled? I was going to go to that concert, I was going to have my mom buy me tickets (I was only 15), but when she went to, it was cancelled. WHY??
Had tickets already gone on sale yet? If tickets had gone on sale, they may not have sold enough tickets in the first few days to justify having a show there. If tickets had not gone on sale yet, they may have cancelled the show as a way of strengthening demand somewhat for other markets nearby, like Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis etc. The second Philadelphia show was cancelled do to low advanced ticket sales after 10 days of the initial on sale date.
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