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Old 08-08-2016, 09:47 PM   #106
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Good god, our backstrokers are hot.
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Old 08-08-2016, 09:51 PM   #107
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Saw a great little thing on the CBC today - they had Biedermann swim in Mark Spitz's Speedos (and not the suit he usually wears). They then superimposed Spitz in a lane next to him and Spitz couldn't even beat the 1972 WR in the suit (200m). This kind of has always bugged me about swimming, that the technology is almost singularly responsible for all the WRs that are set constantly now.

Very similar to how long track speed skating records fell when they came up with the detachable blades.
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Old 08-08-2016, 10:07 PM   #108
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i know fuck all about rugby, but damn if that wasn't fun as hell to watch.

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Saw a great little thing on the CBC today - they had Biedermann swim in Mark Spitz's Speedos (and not the suit he usually wears).
good lord how crusty those things must have been after 44 years
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Old 08-08-2016, 11:02 PM   #109
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Yeah I kinda wish it went for a bit longer though. But awesome for our girls.
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Old 08-08-2016, 11:36 PM   #110
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Saw a great little thing on the CBC today - they had Biedermann swim in Mark Spitz's Speedos (and not the suit he usually wears). They then superimposed Spitz in a lane next to him and Spitz couldn't even beat the 1972 WR in the suit (200m). This kind of has always bugged me about swimming, that the technology is almost singularly responsible for all the WRs that are set constantly now.

Very similar to how long track speed skating records fell when they came up with the detachable blades.


Link? I don't understand your summary as presented.

The super suits of 2008 and especially 2009 have been banned for years now. Generally rapid improvements in swimming have much to do with training and especially technique -- how human beings manipulate and move through water is always changing, and genuine innovations like the underwater dolphin kicks reward the brave and the bold. It's also fascinating to watch strokes evolve from say 1984 Olympics to today. It keeps the sport dynamic, and underscores the difficulty of staying on top in the sport.

Many supersuit (50% polyurethane in '08, and some, like Biederman, 100% in '09) records have been broken in textile suits, which seems to demonstrate the opposite of what you're saying: technology has less to do with it than we think. Even better, every GDR steroid record from the 70s and 80s is gone. The most important technological innovation of the past 40 years has been goggles -- you can now swim 5 hours a day and not go blind.

Lastly, I don't believe Hosszu and her man-bunned husband.
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Old 08-09-2016, 12:18 AM   #111
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The Chinese are fucking giving it to us left right and centre.

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Actually we think Australia should feel embarrassed with Horton's remarks. Otherwise, we would be surprised by some Australians' sense of collective self-esteem.

If it was Sun who did the same, bragging about his little tricks after the win, Chinese media would by no means encourage him by spreading his words.

We don't know if it is Horton who is silly or it's the Australian media that is evil, or perhaps Australia just has a different moral standard. The message sent is abnormal and aberrant.

It's not a big deal to us. In many serious essays written by Westerners, Australia is mentioned as a country at the fringes of civilization. In some cases, they refer to the country's early history as Britain's offshore prison. This suggests that no one should be surprised at uncivilized acts emanating from the country. We should think the same way.
It's so fucking funny. Like fucking CHINA of all countries can hold court on another country's perceived injustices.
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Old 08-09-2016, 10:12 AM   #112
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Link? I don't understand your summary as presented.
It was on their live show last night, no idea how I'd find a link.

Basically they had Biedermann put on the same Speedo that Spitz swam in back in 1972. Then they filmed him swimming a race (on his own) in one of the middle lanes of an Olympic pool. They then computer imposed Spitz from his WR race in 1972 in a lane right next so that it appeared as if they were racing head to head and that way you could visualize the splits. Was pretty neat.

Separately, the doping in swimming is really totally out of control. I have no doubt that the Chinese are almost universally doping and the Russians are not far behind. Real stain on the sport.
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Old 08-09-2016, 11:48 AM   #113
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i'll look around for it -- though it seems disingenuous to suggest (if this was the suggestion) that the suit is the only difference between Spitz and Beiderman, since Spitz was swimming in an Olympic final and Beiderman was swimming for the CBC cameras. i assume they were talking about the 200 free? Spitz swam a 1:52 to win gold, and Beiderman swam 1:45 to come in 6th last night. there's no way a suit alone makes 7 seconds difference over a race that lasts under 2 minutes.

for an interesting comparison on how swimming has evolved, check out these two women's relay races, one from 1976 and the other from 2012. note especially starts, turns, how the entire body is engaged, hips to core, in the stroke, whereas in the 70s it was about turnover, cupped hands, etc.




don't know what to say about the doping, though it was very satisfying to watch Lilly King beat Efimova last night. it really comes down to FINA growing a pair and actually cracking down on countries like Russia and China, especially Russia. it's galling that Efimova was even at the Olympics (she trains in Los Angeles yet still got the same drugs as the other Russian athletes).

all countries have dopers, but most countries don't dope the way we know Russia does and the way it's likely China does (although one guesses it's systemic at the regional level).

Hosszu is becoming the story of the Olympics, and to many she's a reminder of Michelle Smith from 1996, right down to the husband-coach.

this was published last year (Hosszu is suing):

Is It Fair To Suspect That Katinka Hosszu's Performances Are Being Aided?

and this article is concerning. i know NBC has caught some flak for sexism by crediting her husband, but given the relationship as sketched out here, it seems inarguable that something not-quite-right is going on.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/04/sp...usup.html?_r=0
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Old 08-09-2016, 01:31 PM   #114
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i'll look around for it -- though it seems disingenuous to suggest (if this was the suggestion) that the suit is the only difference between Spitz and Beiderman, since Spitz was swimming in an Olympic final and Beiderman was swimming for the CBC cameras. i assume they were talking about the 200 free? Spitz swam a 1:52 to win gold, and Beiderman swam 1:45 to come in 6th last night. there's no way a suit alone makes 7 seconds difference over a race that lasts under 2 minutes.
Those are cool YouTube links, thanks!

And yes, that seemed to be the whole point of the video, that the nearly 10 seconds are purely due to the suit (in fact Biedermann himself seemed to suggest as much at the outset). May have been a BBC original based on the accent of the guy in the piece. I also did think it's not the same as a race though one would think that Biedermann would have at least some incentive to go as fast as possible given that the alternative is that his achievements are tied solely to the suit?

Anyway, on to Hosszu, frankly she doesn't pass my smell test either. She didn't show up to the butterfly heats this afternoon, I haven't heard an explanation yet...
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Old 08-09-2016, 02:00 PM   #115
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I don't know much about rugby, either, and am not generally a sports fan, but love the Olympics. I am pretty sure that rugby sevens is my new favourite sport. Very fun to watch, even with little working knowledge of the rules.

I agree it was most satisfying to see Lily King win.

Irvine, if you thought the backstrokers were something to see, did you see any of the platform diving?????
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Old 08-09-2016, 02:41 PM   #116
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Those are cool YouTube links, thanks!

And yes, that seemed to be the whole point of the video, that the nearly 10 seconds are purely due to the suit (in fact Biedermann himself seemed to suggest as much at the outset). May have been a BBC original based on the accent of the guy in the piece. I also did think it's not the same as a race though one would think that Biedermann would have at least some incentive to go as fast as possible given that the alternative is that his achievements are tied solely to the suit?

Anyway, on to Hosszu, frankly she doesn't pass my smell test either. She didn't show up to the butterfly heats this afternoon, I haven't heard an explanation yet...


that doesn't seem to be a fair setup to either Spitz or Biederman.

interesting that they chose Biederman, because he broke two freestyle records (200 and 400, held by Phelps and Thorpe, respectively) in 2009 that many think prompted FINA to ban the rubber suits. now they are back to textile, and while certainly different than 1972 suits, they aren't *that* different. in the 200, Biederman went 1:42.00 in 100% rubber in 2009, and swam 1:45-mid last night. he also seemed to be one of the swimmers most advantaged by the supersuits -- they seemed to benefit some swimmers more than others (and some, like Phelps, raced in the 50% poly but not the 100% poly).

it was a strange period, most people are glad to see them gone, and you'll often hear references to "best in textile" or "textile world record" to distinguish times from the 2008/9 suits.

Hosszu, yeah. it just seems all too familiar. late-career dramatic improvement (she's 27) that doesn't follow the more typical path of an Olympic champion, and her very muscular build. as the article noted, she's earning real money by swimming. this wasn't possible 20 years ago. when there's money to be earned, there's much more incentive to cheat. and, historically, PEDs have advantaged female swimmers much more than male swimmers.

i think she scratched the fly because of the lights-out awesome swim by Sibohan-Marie O'Connor -- she needs the rest.

i'll be rooting for O'Connor tonight.

also, Canadian women are swimming fantastically. Penny Oleksiak is looking like a rising superstar.
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Old 08-09-2016, 02:47 PM   #117
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Irvine, if you thought the backstrokers were something to see, did you see any of the platform diving?????


i did! it was quite aesthetically pleasing.

however, speaking only for myself, i find divers a bit too slim and slender -- tend to prefer men with muscle. even some swimmers are too skinny for me, but not Murphy and Plummer.
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Old 08-09-2016, 02:48 PM   #118
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Thanks for all of the fascinating information about the swim supersuits and textiles and so forth. I shall join you in cheering O'Connor on this evening.
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Old 08-10-2016, 02:35 AM   #119
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Aly!
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Old 08-10-2016, 08:30 AM   #120
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Phelps! Ledecky!
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