Penn State Child Molestation Scandal...continuing discussion

[deep]

But I think Paterno knew the guy would be going to the 'higher ups' for a more thorough handing of the situation.

If I report an incident, identify the parties, and turn it over to 'investigators' I would assume they be responsible for the proper follow through.

 

[corianderstem]

The question that sticks in my mind is: then what do you do when time goes by and clearly nothing has been done?

If you reported some minor incident up the ladder per the proper procedure and nothing is done, maybe you'd be okay with "well, I did my part, it's not my problem now."

But how do you do that when this person was either molesting or raping a child, depending on which varying report you heard?

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

But I think Paterno knew the guy would be going to the 'higher ups' for a more thorough handing of the situation.

If I report an incident, identify the parties, and turn it over to 'investigators' I would assume they be responsible for the proper follow through.

I am a high school teacher. I would never assume this. Also, the AD is not an "investigator." Reporting abuse to an administrator is not part of mandated reporting in my state. I would need to call the authorities and report it myself. I understand that not all states are the same however.

 

[Danny Boy]

The question that sticks in my mind is: what do you do when time goes by and clearly nothing has been done?

You get promoted.

 

[gvox]

The question that sticks in my mind is: what do you do when time goes by and clearly nothing has been done?

It seems so patently obvious, yet time and time again and in many different types of organizations, this piece of common sense seldom seems to kick in.

 

[deep]

I participate in different organizations, where there is a chain of command.

when that happens, you either stay with the program or you leave.

Also, this isn't the type of thing where you would necessarily know.

Do you go up and ask him, Are you in court ordered therapy? etc.?

 

[PhilsFan]

The question that sticks in my mind is: then what do you do when time goes by and clearly nothing has been done?

If you reported some minor incident up the ladder per the proper procedure and nothing is done, maybe you'd be okay with "well, I did my part, it's not my problem now."

But how do you do that when this person was either molesting or raping a child, depending on which varying report you heard?

This is why I blame Paterno more than McQueary: Paterno had nothing to lose. There's no way he's losing his job over trying to do the right thing and make a big deal about child molestation. People talk of the hypothetical: what if McQueary wasn't right and you're accusing a man of something he didn't do? Horseshit. Paterno had nothing to lose, even if things were tense between him and Sandusky (they may have coached together, but they were never exactly good friends) and it could have been perceived as him trying to stir shit up.

Whereas with McQueary, you could see why he might have some fears that making too big a deal of it could lose him a lot of things. Obviously he should have done more, but you can at least understand that. With Paterno, there's nothing bad that could have come out of making a bigger fuss about it.

 

[corianderstem]

That's been my impression as well. (As a total outsider to both college football and Penn State; just my impressions based on what I've read.)

 

[gvox]

Also, this isn't the type of thing where you would necessarily know.

Of course you would in this type of situation: you'd be part of the child protective services / police investigation. If you are Paterno and it is reported properly, you are getting questioned by some legal authority. So then you'd know.

 

[gvox]

This is why I blame Paterno more than McQueary: Paterno had nothing to lose. There's no way he's losing his job over trying to do the right thing and make a big deal about child molestation. People talk of the hypothetical: what if McQueary wasn't right and you're accusing a man of something he didn't do? Horseshit. Paterno had nothing to lose, even if things were tense between him and Sandusky (they may have coached together, but they were never exactly good friends) and it could have been perceived as him trying to stir shit up.

Whereas with McQueary, you could see why he might have some fears that making too big a deal of it could lose him a lot of things. Obviously he should have done more, but you can at least understand that. With Paterno, there's nothing bad that could have come out of making a bigger fuss about it.

Bang on. He's the big fish, not the other way around. They're not going to touch him for going all the way with it, and that is why his inaction is all the more reprehensible imo.

 

[yolland]

This is why I blame Paterno more than McQueary: Paterno had nothing to lose. There's no way he's losing his job over trying to do the right thing and make a big deal about child molestation. People talk of the hypothetical: what if McQueary wasn't right and you're accusing a man of something he didn't do? Horseshit. Paterno had nothing to lose, even if things were tense between him and Sandusky (they may have coached together, but they were never exactly good friends) and it could have been perceived as him trying to stir shit up.

Whereas with McQueary, you could see why he might have some fears that making too big a deal of it could lose him a lot of things. Obviously he should have done more, but you can at least understand that. With Paterno, there's nothing bad that could have come out of making a bigger fuss about it.

eta...I just remembered something..somewhere along the way one or more media outlets reported that Paterno testified that McQuery never told him that it was anal sex. It's not directly mentioned in the findings of fact though. I guess there is more to the record than what's listed in that document, right? Isn't that just a summary of what facts they feel are relevant?

Right, it's not necessarily an exhaustive account of every last thing that was said. And pretty much every lawyer I've seen comment on this grand jury report has criticized it as really sloppily written.

 

[gvox]

I hear you yolland.

Fucking hell, I need to step away from this subject. I just realized that I'm typing out paragraphs on the difference between one disgusting act on a child and another.

:vomit:

 

[Danny Boy]

Breaking: McQueary was just placed on administrative leave "indefinitiely." Safe to say he should start looking for another line of work.

 

[PhilsFan]

He'll be negotiated out of his contract. They don't want to fuck with his whistleblower-status, but there's no way he coaches again. It can't happen.

 

[yolland]

PFan, do you think the fallout from this is likely to lead to calls for revisions to PA's reporting laws? I don't necessarily have the impression they're any "worse" than the national average (e.g., only a minority of states have a general requirement that any adult with reasonable cause to suspect child abuse directly report it), still, it's hard not to get the impression PA's system facilitated the all-around moral negligence here, even though it obviously didn't cause it.

 

[misfit toys]

Yes, it seems likely that PA's law will be changed.

State Rep. Kevin Boyle, a Philadelphia Democrat, told CNN's Anderson Cooper he plans to introduce a measure aimed at ensuring that people who witness or learn of the abuse of a child report it to the proper authorities.

"In light of the alleged child sex abuse scandal at Pennsylvania State University, it is clear that a loophole exists in our law," Boyle said in an earlier news release. "My legislation would close that loophole by requiring those who are aware of the abuse to report it to law enforcement authorities, rather than simply following an in-house chain of command."

source

This whole thing makes my heart hurt.

 

[DRay9911]

mcqueary in a safehouse

 

[PhilsFan]

PFan, do you think the fallout from this is likely to lead to calls for revisions to PA's reporting laws? I don't necessarily have the impression they're any "worse" than the national average (e.g., only a minority of states have a general requirement that any adult with reasonable cause to suspect child abuse directly report it), still, it's hard not to get the impression PA's system facilitated the all-around moral negligence here, even though it obviously didn't cause it.

Oh yes. Probably a number of changes. Corbett hates Penn State, too, he will love to make an example out of us for this. I'll bet he finds a way to cut more funding.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

In the state where I live you only have to report it directly to the police if you're a teacher or a physician. My mother is a senior citizen and she has to have CORI every year because she volunteers at a nursing home. So that is messed up and the laws need to change, it's not just PA.

The local sports radio here says that PA has a whistleblower law, if you make a "reasonable attempt" to report you can't be fired. So I assume that's why McQueary hasn't been fired. That and maybe he knows more than has even come out.

It was nice to see the students who had a vigil for the victims, good for them.

 

[corianderstem]

My mother is a senior citizen and she has to have CORI every year

What can I say - the senior citizens love me!

Seriously, though - what's CORI?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Seriously, though - what's CORI?

Criminal offender record information

 

[corianderstem]

Thanks.

 

[PhilsFan]

I am exhausted. Today was one of the strangest things I'll have ever been a part of.

 

[LemonMelon]

Lance's mom partook of stranger things in her blew period.

Credit to Penn State for actually showing some backbone today. Most teams would be envious of that defense, it kept the game reasonably close the whole way.

 

[PhilsFan]

Our defense is awesome, especially considering our second best player tore his knee a month ago and is out for the season. But McGloin sucks and so does the playcalling. They got the ball back with four minutes down by three, and what do they do? Run four straight off tackles, including an off tackle run on 4th-and-1. Turnover on downs. Ball game.

But yeah, that's not what was weird. They play video during the timeouts, and some of them are pump up videos and there was also a Senior Day video. All obviously pre-recorded. Some of them featured Joe. People were fixated on them, solely so they could cheer loudly every time there was a glimpse of Joe on the screen. People would randomly lead Joe Paterno chants throughout the game. I participated in none of this. So weird.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

There's everything to interpret there, and is the whole reason why Paterno is not charged.

if you believe that what was in the grand jury report is all that paterno knew, and that all he did was fail morally to report it to the police... then joepa has nothing to worry about from a legal standpoint.

if you believe that there's a whooooole lot more to this, and that paterno himself was involved in a massive coverup dating back at least to 1998, then paterno could eventually face legal problems.

i believe the second option to be true. i also think that the authorities could have pushed for perjury charges for joepa now, but didn't because of who he is.

 

[PhilsFan]

I don't disagree with any of that.

 

[deep]

that's a leap,

and this will only be a legal case now

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

that's a leap,

and this will only be a legal case now

what is a leap

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Bob Costas got the scoop... will interview Sandusky tonight on NBC.