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Old 07-20-2012, 04:14 PM   #511
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Or you can keep standing above it all, holier-than-thou, acting as if Penn State is populated by mindless inbreds who only care about football and would prefer everyone just leave us alone and let us decide how to police ourselves when children are getting raped. Sure, go with that. I'm sure it'll make you feel more satisfied at the end of the day to think, "God, at least we're not like those people."

If that's not satisfying enough, I'm sure a snarky reply to this post will do the job just fine.
From the guy telling the other guy to calm down.....

You're right about one thing: I'm not like the people who would protect that statue. I'm not anything like the people that don't mind it staying there, either.

I'm ok with that
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:22 PM   #512
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I believe coaches should be punished when their program is caught doing things that are wrong. John Calipari disgusts me.

I believe any student, athlete or otherwise, who wants to transfer should be able to do so without penalty, and any costs paid for, and any help needed given, by the university.

I still believe that institutions can and should be punished. Harshly, when necessary. I actually think it's disgraceful that Baylor didn't get the death penalty.

How deep did it go? The janitors knew, the president knew. How many in between? We don't know yet. Nobody does. But do we really think the rest of the athletic administration didn't have an idea? I know this... there's no way I'd allow a student athlete I'm associated with to go to Penn State.

I do think that in the best interest of student athletes who weren't involved that they should let them play this season, with a post season ban. It's too late for them to transfer now. But after that, I think they should be shut down. Not permanently, but for at least a season.
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:26 PM   #513
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I think the worst part of this for me is that if this never happened, and we were over in the NCAA thread talking about recruiting violations or point shaving or any number of other so-called gross violations, the same parties to this discussion saying "no don't make Penn St football collateral damage" would be calling for at least a temporary ban on the program(s) involved.
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:36 PM   #514
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I find it bizarre that the two are being compared so closely. That one is somehow on the same path as the other, higher and lower points on the same ladder.

The precedent argument falls apart every time because this is on a different plane from all other scandals we've seen. I facepalm every time someone says "well two years to SMU for one thing so two years to Penn State for something else entirely derp." If you're going to punish Penn State, don't dole out the same penalty for a radically different crime. I have no idea what they should do, but SMU = Penn State doesn't fly with me.

Whereas I was anti-death penalty before, I'm increasingly neutral on the topic, because I've come to realize the root of the problem extends far beyond Penn State. In a way, I think punishing them is one step towards a greater good. Making an example of them sets a precedent in this situation that will make dealing with similar scandals a great deal simpler. But I hope we go further than that and start to evaluate the role of the NCAA in these situations, and on an individual basis begin to regard athletics properly. There's a whole bunch of shit we have to fix that has very little to do with Penn State specifically. To that end, the penalty is nothing personal. But of course it is, because we're fucking over a whole university.
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:52 PM   #515
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I get what you're saying, but isn't that the very essence of the problem? That the entire culture of the school basically depends on the football program? That hitting the football program cripples the university entirely? Is it a school, or a football camp?
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:55 PM   #516
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A member and former chairman of the Penn State board of trustees resigned on Thursday, becoming the first board member to do so in the wake of the Jerry Sandusky child sex abuse scandal.

...

After the report's release, trustees accepted responsibility for a failure of oversight and said they were "deeply ashamed." Board Chairwoman Karen Peetz, who announced Garban's resignation in a letter on the board's website, said at the time that no trustee would step down, however.
This is an excellent example of institutional failure. Why is he the first to quit? The rest are siting around biding their time and hoping that they end up getting re-elected at a later point? Why did they all not take responsibility and immediately say that they would be resigning, in an orderly fashion in order to permit the University to find competent replacements? Instead they took the position that nobody is stepping down. Just another symptom of institutional failure.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:01 PM   #517
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That hitting the football program cripples the university entirely? Is it a school, or a football camp?
Peef makes it sound like the latter, tbh.

Which by no means requires intervention, until it starts to put others in harm's way. I certainly get the death penalty argument. It's just some of the logic being thrown around that I get hung up on.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:32 PM   #518
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It's one of the top public universities in the fucking country. Of course it's a school.

But the economy of the surrounding areas: the hotels, the restaurants, the clothes shops, the taxi drivers ... they all depend on having huge numbers of people seven or eight times every year.

Students get jobs working for the football team. Like me. My career depends on being able to cover Penn State athletics for media outlets.

That's what I'm saying.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:39 PM   #519
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My career depends on being able to cover Penn State athletics for media outlets.
I don't mean to minimize it but surely other people end up having careers in your field without the benefit of having covered Big 10 athletic teams? I mean I know some of those people so obviously it does happen. And you've had 3 years of experience there - you can't possibly think that your career is over before you've even walked out the door, even if a death penalty happens this September (probably unlikely)? I just think that's an unwarranted pessimistic view.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:02 PM   #520
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But the economy of the surrounding areas: the hotels, the restaurants, the clothes shops, the taxi drivers ... they all depend on having huge numbers of people seven or eight times every year.
Yes, a thousand times yes to this. This is exactly why you cannot pull the rug out from the program, because all of these people will suffer, in the middle of a bloody economic crisis no less. I am all for gradually reducing the influence of collegiate sports on colleges themselves (not just at Penn State, but everywhere), but doing it with one stroke of the sword will not accomplish anything worthwhile.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:24 PM   #521
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I don't mean to minimize it but surely other people end up having careers in your field without the benefit of having covered Big 10 athletic teams? I mean I know some of those people so obviously it does happen. And you've had 3 years of experience there - you can't possibly think that your career is over before you've even walked out the door, even if a death penalty happens this September (probably unlikely)? I just think that's an unwarranted pessimistic view.
What I mean is: if the season is canceled I lose almost four months of work, replaced by essentially nothing. And my experience in my first two years was limited because seniority rules. They tell you to wait for your senior year to get the big opportunities. Now it is here, and it is in jeopardy.

I can't go elsewhere. This is where I can work. I can't try and transfer. I can't replace it with more of other sports: I am already doing as much as I can with other sports.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:33 PM   #522
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What I mean is: if the season is canceled I lose almost four months of work, replaced by essentially nothing. And my experience in my first two years was limited because seniority rules. They tell you to wait for your senior year to get the big opportunities. Now it is here, and it is in jeopardy.

I can't go elsewhere. This is where I can work. I can't try and transfer. I can't replace it with more of other sports: I am already doing as much as I can with other sports.
Welcome to the real world.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:57 PM   #523
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I'm done.
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:34 PM   #524
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I'd say I was sorry for you... and I am... but you've made it abundantly clear that you don't want said sympathy.

I still think Penn State football should get as harsh a penalty as the NCAA is capable of handing down.

You are an innocent victim of the crimes of Sandusky, Paterno, Curley, etc.etc.etc. The are at fault here, for everything.

And if the NCAA drops the hammer on Penn State? Yea... it's not the NCAA's fault, or the media's fault, or those of us who want it to happen's fault...

It's Sandusky's fault. Paterno's fault. The administration's fault.

Much like it wasn't fault of the average schmo at Enron or Goldman Sachs who lost everything... it was the fault of those in charge... but it still happened none the less.

I do feel for you, whether you want that sympathy or not I really don't give a shit. I do. It still doesn't change my opinion on what should happen to Penn State. I think that the experiences you've had at PSU will do nothing but help you in the future... there's much more to be said for the experience of going through real tragedy than there is from interviewing a 19 year old in a towel about what his thoughts were on third down. I think, and I hope, that you'll realize this some day.

But Penn State football should receive the death penalty. Somebody earlier said that there shouldn't be a direct comparison between what happened to SMU and what will happen to Penn State. And I agree... Penn State should get more than what SMU got. But I am a realist and know that will not happen.
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:18 PM   #525
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What a fascinating saga. Only in America.

One thing that confuses me: are people asking for the whole university to get shut down or just Penn State's involvement in all things football?
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