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In 2002, after a trial game, Johns and either 1 or 2 other players picked up a waitress. She went willingly to their room to participate in an act of group sex.

However it happened (no-one knows yet) other players found out and began arriving. At this point Johns left, and up to 6 players joined in, with up to 6 more players and staff watching. At no stage did she try and get out, she was fully consenting (the act is disgusting, but NOT illegal).

In around 2004/5 she came forward and threatened to name the initial 3 players, and Matt Johns admitted one was him, refusing to name the others. Now it has come out that it was much more involved than initially thought.

It has been made quite clear that he hasn't done anything illegal. Obviously, it is hard for a person to leave a group of up to 12 men, but it was consensual, and she was there of her own free will. The fact that she is having trouble coping is entirely a product of her own bad decisions.

Johns issues or for him and his family to work out. He has now been fired from his job as a commentator and host on a number of variety programs, he has been fired as his job as a specialist coach for different teams, and he has been banned from any an dall positions available within the NRL administration system.

While his actions were abhorrent, it is immoral and borderline a violation of human rights to fire someone and ruin their life based on actions he took entirely within the framework of the law, and that were mistakes made by another human being.
 
yeah, given the circumstances i can see where one can argue it started out consenting but she got less willing the more people joined in. but if johns left before things got out of hand, i don't see how it's his fault or why he should have his career ruined over this.
 
KhanadaRhodes said:
yeah, given the circumstances i can see where one can argue it started out consenting but she got less willing the more people joined in. but if johns left before things got out of hand, i don't see how it's his fault or why he should have his career ruined over this.
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that's the crux of the issue, imo.

i want the other players named. they're the ones who are really in the wrong here, if it's gone down the way we think it has.
 
also, another reason this stuff bugs me is because it makes everyone involved with the code look like shit, just because of the actions of a few assholes. even a relatively clean club like auckland gets tarred with this, as do the fans and anyone else involved.

just look at something like the superthread, where when the show was airing everyone related to league were labelled as knuckle draggers and other intelligent comments, simply because of a few assholes.
 
The problem is that all johns has to hold on to in his life apart from his family are his memories from football, and his friends. He will lose all of those if he names people.

9 made the wrong decision. They should have made a deal for the naming of the other players involved and the full story.

At least Johns should make a statement urging the others to come forward.

It seems strange; he lost everything he should logically and lawfully have kept, and kept what he morally should have lost
 
i don't want him to name them, for sure. that would not be cool.

why he alone was singled out by fork awners while everyone else involved gets off scot-free, especially if he was all consensually involved and the rest weren't is really rough.
 
coolian2 said:
i don't want him to name them, for sure. that would not be cool.

why he alone was singled out by fork awners while everyone else involved gets off scot-free, especially if he was all consensually involved and the rest weren't is really rough.
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Teaches the kids a great lesson doesn't it "don't admit to things when you think you've done something wrong. You'll get in trouble, and everyone else won't"
 
dan_smee said:
While his actions were abhorrent, it is immoral and borderline a violation of human rights to fire someone and ruin their life based on actions he took entirely within the framework of the law, and that were mistakes made by another human being.
Click to expand...
:up::up::up:

Was he married with kids at the time of the incident? He's visibly upset by this in interviews etc.

Whilst I completely agree with you, I can see Channel 9's position as well, becuase it would be hard to keep its credibility in tact if they kept him on the show and pretended as if nothing happened.

But if you really think about this, it has completely wrecked Johns' life, and that's not fucking right.

If people heard even half the shit that really goes on, there would be no sport played in this country.
 
coolian2 said:
just look at something like the superthread, where when the show was airing everyone related to league were labelled as knuckle draggers and other intelligent comments, simply because of a few assholes.
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why didn't you bring this up with me? seriously, you've been to western sydney suburbs football games, how many times? i live in rugby league country. the scum who follow this sport are everywhere. the players themselves are largely idiotic. i would never, and clarified as much the other night, say that all who follow the league are the equivalent of the missing link. you are among those who i don't view with this contempt because you're like my family who are not walking stereotypes of this very real thug aspect of this sport. you cannot deny it exists in others en masse. if only the clubs here in sydney were half as decent as your kiwi lads, there would never be shit like this johns story in the media. i'm not being sarcastic. unfortunately for the league, johns' story is not the first of its kind.


seriously ian, bring it up with me if you have a problem. i'm not uninformed of the problems which exist in the nrl. my unashamed bias aside, i can quite clearly differentiate between the types i was describing and people like you. most people who know what they are railing about can do this.
 
Whether Johns is in the right or wrong is up to how sacred marriage is to the individual who is judging. If he was with his missus back then, he betrayed and cheated on her and that's not cool. That's Careyesque. That's the scandal.

He seems quite adamant that it was just a session of consensual group sex. It seems as if it really is a case of the sexual act going too far. Group Sex, the girl in a severely compromised position, out of control of where the sexual act was going, and it turned into rape, whether the participants know they've committed an act of rape, who knows.

I don't like it how the issue has to be left unresolved. Poor girl.
 
Sam Newman did an honourable job tonight on our Footy Show.

I will continue to say however that players get victimised, I know all about the role model and public stuff etc, but take Carey for example, who got in shit for grabbing a woman's boobs outside a nightclub, and still today, years on and past retirement, e still cops it. No, it wasn't the right thing to do, but it's an example of what i mean.
 
Angela Harlem said:
why didn't you bring this up with me? seriously, you've been to western sydney suburbs football games, how many times? i live in rugby league country. the scum who follow this sport are everywhere. the players themselves are largely idiotic. i would never, and clarified as much the other night, say that all who follow the league are the equivalent of the missing link. you are among those who i don't view with this contempt because you're like my family who are not walking stereotypes of this very real thug aspect of this sport. you cannot deny it exists in others en masse. if only the clubs here in sydney were half as decent as your kiwi lads, there would never be shit like this johns story in the media. i'm not being sarcastic. unfortunately for the league, johns' story is not the first of its kind.


seriously ian, bring it up with me if you have a problem. i'm not uninformed of the problems which exist in the nrl. my unashamed bias aside, i can quite clearly differentiate between the types i was describing and people like you. most people who know what they are railing about can do this.
Click to expand...

i apologise anna, that was a lazy example on my behalf.

the point i was trying to make still stands, however, where for way too long anyone associated with the game look like shit because of it. i'll try to reply more at length later.

The Sad Punk said:
Harden the fuck up.
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don't think i'd be the only one who needs to :rolleyes:
 
coolian2 said:
i apologise anna, that was a lazy example on my behalf.

the point i was trying to make still stands, however, where for way too long anyone associated with the game look like shit because of it. i'll try to reply more at length later.
Click to expand...



it's all cool, mate. sorry if i was a little agitated to you :) i got to thinking more about this last night and this morning, especially as the media are still drenched in the johns thing (of which i don't have a strong opinion of - but do think his sacking is a bit pointless. my small opinion is of the incident itself and what it says of the players who were involved and every single guy there that night who did not say, "uh, guys, she's just a 19 year old girl and consenting or not, is this really a top notch choice?" the fact this didn't happen is quietly alarming and the nrl are failing to ensure players act to a certain standard - not an impossible one, but one where they endeavour to promote respectable behaviours). where was i? lol. the johns thing is a bit of a non-story, i feel. it pales into insignificance compared to some things.

the labelling of fans like yourself must be annoying - but truly you are not one i am speaking of. i really get the shits when people mock afl. i can only comment on the sydney clubs, the roosters, tigers, rabbitohs, panthers, sea eagles, sharks, etc. not even the storm or knights and especially the warriors, as they're nowhere near me and largely not reported on in the same way local clubs are. as for the stereotypical fan who is born of the suburbs around here, nothing can be done about them. the standards of the players and clubs can be improved, however. anyways.. :)
 
Angela Harlem said:
it's all cool, mate. sorry if i was a little agitated to you :) i got to thinking more about this last night and this morning, especially as the media are still drenched in the johns thing (of which i don't have a strong opinion of - but do think his sacking is a bit pointless. my small opinion is of the incident itself and what it says of the players who were involved and every single guy there that night who did not say, "uh, guys, she's just a 19 year old girl and consenting or not, is this really a top notch choice?" the fact this didn't happen is quietly alarming and the nrl are failing to ensure players act to a certain standard - not an impossible one, but one where they endeavour to promote respectable behaviours). where was i? lol. the johns thing is a bit of a non-story, i feel. it pales into insignificance compared to some things.

the labelling of fans like yourself must be annoying - but truly you are not one i am speaking of. i really get the shits when people mock afl. i can only comment on the sydney clubs, the roosters, tigers, rabbitohs, panthers, sea eagles, sharks, etc. not even the storm or knights and especially the warriors, as they're nowhere near me and largely not reported on in the same way local clubs are. as for the stereotypical fan who is born of the suburbs around here, nothing can be done about them. the standards of the players and clubs can be improved, however. anyways.. :)
Click to expand...

there's just so many angles with this, it's just an absurd mindfuck to try to make any sense of it whatsoever. the whole group sex thing is unpleasant enough anyway....the 2nd, 3rd, 4th guys in...what is the appeal there? this is so much more than what needs to be discussed in a sports thread, it's fym material if i wanted to post seriously in there.


it's a simple case of not thinking the majority of the fans of any club (except scumnulla) aren't all like the worst members. there are a few warriors fans that fit some of the descriptions you've said - trust me, i know - but it's not extrapilating that out to label everyone that. some may have more dickheads and wankers than others, but it's generally not universal (except for cronulla).

ultimately it's up to the clubs and players to sort their shit out - some clubs are doing a better job of this than others. part of the four corners show, as i understand, was covering what newcastle are doing since the bathurst incident a few years ago. it's definitely not just a league thing, as danny said, there's more than enough evidence of that. but it doesn't change the fact that they should be getting their shit together faster than anyone else, and it shouldn't fall on the fans to cop the shit from the public and followers of any other sport.

fuck, if only i could write my radio research essay as quickly as this post.
 
Angela Harlem said:
it's all cool, mate. sorry if i was a little agitated to you :) i got to thinking more about this last night and this morning, especially as the media are still drenched in the johns thing (of which i don't have a strong opinion of - but do think his sacking is a bit pointless. my small opinion is of the incident itself and what it says of the players who were involved and every single guy there that night who did not say, "uh, guys, she's just a 19 year old girl and consenting or not, is this really a top notch choice?" the fact this didn't happen is quietly alarming and the nrl are failing to ensure players act to a certain standard - not an impossible one, but one where they endeavour to promote respectable behaviours). where was i? lol. the johns thing is a bit of a non-story, i feel. it pales into insignificance compared to some things.

the labelling of fans like yourself must be annoying - but truly you are not one i am speaking of. i really get the shits when people mock afl. i can only comment on the sydney clubs, the roosters, tigers, rabbitohs, panthers, sea eagles, sharks, etc. not even the storm or knights and especially the warriors, as they're nowhere near me and largely not reported on in the same way local clubs are. as for the stereotypical fan who is born of the suburbs around here, nothing can be done about them. the standards of the players and clubs can be improved, however. anyways.. :)
Click to expand...

The fact is, they didn't know she was 19, and ive known 19 year olds that look 40, so I don't think the assumption can be made. That is in no way excusing the behaviour. It is sickening to think that people could do that. It is only a minority that behave in this way though, absolutely. People may have bias against league players for whatever reason, but it is a vast minority. Some of the nicest, cleanest and most honourable people I know I met through rugby league. I still have contact with NRL players, and they are just as sickened by these events as I am.

Blaming the NRL is pointless, because unless they cross elgal lines, it is immoral and impossible to legislate against free will. If they want to engage in disgusting acts, as long as they are legal, you get into a lot of problems telling them they can't. At least they are being strong now. The unfortunate thing in this situation is that, while these players may have done the wrong thing, so did this girl, but because she is famous, and because she is now suffering trauma, her role in the whole debacle isn't even acknowledged. To be honest, if she went back to a room with more than one footballer, she is an idiot. Plain and simple. She may not have intended what actually happened, but to cry foul now is pathetic. I can't excuse their behaviour, but if she is a consenting adult of sound mind is ok with it, then there is nothing to do. The media, and unfortunately the general public can be so unforgiving in situations like this that they ignore the facts. Johns should not have been fired. There is no logical explanation for his dismissal.

If she wants to retract her decision as a consenting adult to a sexual encounter with more than one man, she should be removed from society. I feel very sorry for her that it happened, but I'm sorry intedomine, she can't have a fleeting thought that she doesn't want it during the act, not verbalise it, and it still be called rape. It is consensual until she indicates otherwise. In my opinion she is insane for even going there.

The real criminals in all this are those too cowardly to come forward.
 
coolian2 said:
there's just so many angles with this, it's just an absurd mindfuck to try to make any sense of it whatsoever. the whole group sex thing is unpleasant enough anyway....the 2nd, 3rd, 4th guys in...what is the appeal there? this is so much more than what needs to be discussed in a sports thread, it's fym material if i wanted to post seriously in there.


it's a simple case of not thinking the majority of the fans of any club (except scumnulla) aren't all like the worst members. there are a few warriors fans that fit some of the descriptions you've said - trust me, i know - but it's not extrapilating that out to label everyone that. some may have more dickheads and wankers than others, but it's generally not universal (except for cronulla).

ultimately it's up to the clubs and players to sort their shit out - some clubs are doing a better job of this than others. part of the four corners show, as i understand, was covering what newcastle are doing since the bathurst incident a few years ago. it's definitely not just a league thing, as danny said, there's more than enough evidence of that. but it doesn't change the fact that they should be getting their shit together faster than anyone else, and it shouldn't fall on the fans to cop the shit from the public and followers of any other sport.

fuck, if only i could write my radio research essay as quickly as this post.
Click to expand...

The problem here is that you can't label fans. There are fans of every type of sport, of every team in every country that are deviant. It's a fact of life.

It shits me no end when people say that I am a 'leaguey' so therefore I am a rapist, or I am uncouth or whatever.

People are people. Some are deviant. The law should deal with them. Labelling people and creating rediculous and unfair biased opinions of them is just as bad as some of the things they do.

I mean, think about this removed from personal opinions are prejudice....

"A person is a bad person because he follws (x) sport"

I mean, there is no logic!!!

"A person is gay because he like netball" wrong

"A person is upper class because they like horse-racing" wrong

"A person is a thug because they like league" wrong

I hate people. People are fucked
 
dan_smee said:
The problem here is that you can't label fans. There are fans of every type of sport, of every team in every country that are deviant. It's a fact of life.

It shits me no end when people say that I am a 'leaguey' so therefore I am a rapist, or I am uncouth or whatever.

People are people. Some are deviant. The law should deal with them. Labelling people and creating rediculous and unfair biased opinions of them is just as bad as some of the things they do.

I mean, think about this removed from personal opinions are prejudice....

"A person is a bad person because he follws (x) sport"

I mean, there is no logic!!!

"A person is gay because he like netball" wrong

"A person is upper class because they like horse-racing" wrong

"A person is a thug because they like league" wrong

I hate people. People are fucked
Click to expand...
i'll forgive you for saying rediculous because otherwise, that's a quality post.
 
Not going to comment on the Johns thing, other than to say I would hope that the personal choices made that night and the responsibility for the consequences of those choices are being taken into account . . .but I fear they are not . . . the whole ugly mess just makes me sad for all involved

Now, can I have a what the re the video refs decision to disallow that final bulldogs try last night?

Not a big league fan by any stretch of the imagination but am married to one (die hard souths supporter, quiet a nice fellow despite this :D) . . .and I will admit to having only a passing understanding of the rules . . . but that decision last night in the dying minutes of the game was dodgy at best . . .
 
^ true, I tipped St George, and as that decision was pending, I was blowing up, because there was no way it should have been disallowed

So far 4 from 4 for this round. Only need Cowboys, manly, Tigers and STorm
 
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