NFL 2016 Thread

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I don't even like the Giants and it hurts to watch them get ran all over by a team that obviously doesn't have a running game.
 
The New York Giants are one of the worst teams I've ever seen.

And I remember when the dolphins beat the Baltimore ravens on a Greg Camarillo TD in OT from Cleo Lemon to avoid losing every game of the season.

I'll be surprised if the Giants win a game at this pace.
One of the worst teams you've ever seen and going 0-16 is a bit of a stretch. It's not as if they were blown out in either of these games.

Don't get me wrong, they've been terrible, but it all boils down to the offensive line, which is absolutely atrocious and has guys starting (looking at you Ereck Flowers) who don't even belong in the league. It disrupts the entire flow of the offense, and causes the defense to be on the field longer than they have to, leading to breakdowns and injuries. You can go even further and point towards one fucking person as the cause of the majority of their problems, the aforementioned Ereck Flowers.

If they had one fucking shred of common sense they'd have kicked Flowers to the curb and signed a handful of veteran linemen.

But hey, who needs a competent left tackle protecting the blind side of a slow QB in a timing based offense?

Fucking idiots.

So instead a team that's pretty talented can't get out of their own damn way.

Ereck Flowers is the worst player in the NFL.
 
I don't think it's one of the worst teams ever. I'm just comparing it to recent history (ie the last 10 years, stuff I can remember).

That's the thing. Their O-line is amazingly bad. They secretly have an amazing receiver corps, but absolutely no offensive line, no running game, overall just poor blocking in general, average kicking and punting at best, a mediocre d-line (Detroit was getting a running game going on them!). And it's Eli. He's never really been more than average at best during the regular season. They seem so hopeless, mostly because of every single player surrounding Eli that isn't a WR. Their only strongpoint is wholly inaccessible.
 
As for 0-16, sure that probably won't happen, but I won't be surprised if it does. How can you fix that glaring problem on offense? I don't think you can.
 
I don't think it's one of the worst teams ever. I'm just comparing it to recent history (ie the last 10 years, stuff I can remember).

That's the thing. Their O-line is amazingly bad. They secretly have an amazing receiver corps, but absolutely no offensive line, no running game, overall just poor blocking in general, average kicking and punting at best, a mediocre d-line (Detroit was getting a running game going on them!). And it's Eli. He's never really been more than average at best during the regular season. They seem so hopeless, mostly because of every single player surrounding Eli that isn't a WR. Their only strongpoint is wholly inaccessible.
Average at best is just wrong in regards to Eli's career.

And the defensive line is not at all the issue. The defensive line being on the field for way too long? Yea, that's an issue. There's only so many times you can keep throwing Snacks out there before he fatigues, but he's normally one of the best run stoppers in the entire league.

Aside from that, I can't argue any of the rest of your points other than to again say that if they replaced one fucking person the line would go from atrocious to passable, and passable might just be enough.
 
As for 0-16, sure that probably won't happen, but I won't be surprised if it does. How can you fix that glaring problem on offense? I don't think you can.
I mean... really? 0-16? It was a one possession game for most of the second half despite the Giants offense being non existent. They've been awful, but that's awesome bit of an overreaction.
 
They lost by a combined 30 points to two teams that were in the playoffs last season. I definitely wouldn't call them an 0-16 candidate. They have a tough schedule, but with two meetings with the Skins, as well as games against the Rams, Chargers and 49ers, they can pick up some wins.
 
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Average at best is just wrong in regards to Eli's career.

And the defensive line is not at all the issue. The defensive line being on the field for way too long? Yea, that's an issue. There's only so many times you can keep throwing Snacks out there before he fatigues, but he's normally one of the best run stoppers in the entire league.

Aside from that, I can't argue any of the rest of your points other than to again say that if they replaced one fucking person the line would go from atrocious to passable, and passable might just be enough.



For the regular season, he tends to have an average TD/INT ratio, of median count, and tends to have a QB rating in the 80s. A few seasons in his career he's been above that, and a few seasons he's been below that. FWIW his career QB rating is 83.7, and that follows with the average QB rating in the league during his career. I don't know what you have to say about Eli being anything more than average. He is a champ, that's for sure. But his play on the field is pretty average for his position.

You're right with the defensive line - it's a product of the offense. Perhaps calling them mediocre was a bit much, but they certainly looked worse than they actually are yesterday.
 
I mean... really? 0-16? It was a one possession game for most of the second half despite the Giants offense being non existent. They've been awful, but that's awesome bit of an overreaction.



Perhaps it is, perhaps it isn't. The angle I'm coming at is that there isn't an escape from the critical flaw they have. It's really easy to exploit, and it's really difficult to fix mid-season. The only reason why I think it could get ugly is because I can only see that situation getting worse as the season goes along. If Manning can't get 5 seconds to go downfield on any play at all(quite literally what was happening), shutting down their only assets on offense will be basic training.
 
Perhaps it is, perhaps it isn't. The angle I'm coming at is that there isn't an escape from the critical flaw they have. It's really easy to exploit, and it's really difficult to fix mid-season. The only reason why I think it could get ugly is because I can only see that situation getting worse as the season goes along. If Manning can't get 5 seconds to go downfield on any play at all(quite literally what was happening), shutting down their only assets on offense will be basic training.
Replace one person on the line with a player of aveage ability and the line gets better.

They haven't done that because it would be Reese admitting that he wasted a first round draft pick on a total and complete bum.

Eventually he'll have no choice.
 
If the Giants' defenses of 2007 and 2011 hadn't played out of their minds in those Super Bowls against some of the best offenses of the modern era, no one would give a flying fuck about Eli Manning. His last name doesn't hurt either.

In 2017, forget it. Too slow for that awful line, accuracy too inconsistent to make the most of his opportunities, and with no running game it's Eli shouldering the burden game after game. He's been a very lucky man throughout his career, but I feel a little sorry for him these days.
 
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I don't, aside from the eye test. Yea, statistically he's in the middle of the pack. I'm sure there's something aside from accumulation statistics that I could find to prove him better than average, but I simply don't care to. But through his career (probably not now) I've seen him perform in the clutch where other guys have failed miserably enough to slide him up above "merely mediocre."

The "he's lucky" and "if not for the defense" game is a silly one that we could play out with any number of players and teams. The 2011 NFC title game comes to mind right off the bat - he played out of his mind against a great, punishing defense - took hit after hit - and the Giants never get out of San Francisco without him playing the way he did; stout defense or not.

EVERYONE is lucky. Would the Patriots be in the Super Bowl every damn year if that didn't have as easy a path to the playoffs as they do by playing in the god awful AFC East? No, but I don't take anything away from them because of it.

He also gets shit on over his last name just as often, because no, he's not Peyton, never was and never will be. If his last name was Smith, yea - he wouldn't have as many endorsements, and healso wouldn't get bashed as often as he is. It's a two way street.

I never said the guy was in the upper echelon of quarterbacks, neither today, nor all time, nor in his prime (save for maybe a 2-3 year stretch after 2007).

He's had a better than "average" career.

And no QB could survive behind Ereck Flowers.
 
Well, I didn't call him lucky and I did differentiate his play in the season versus playoffs. And I did note his champ nature.

Bottom line though - he's never been someone to turn something out of nothing. He relies on a team effort and has never offered superstar power during his regular season play.
 
Of course Eli is lucky. He was born a Manning. He was able to pick what team he would spend his career with instead of making the most out of garbage like most top tier college quarterbacks. He's faced few serious injuries in his career. During the Giants' best years, he was blessed with amazing defenses and stout running backs. The most successful, well known plays of his career involved a profound degree of luck. And now that his legacy is being discussed, he's receiving the benefit of the doubt in part because of his situation.

Eli is an extremely fortunate man, uniquely so in a league of men that are here today and gone tomorrow, and it would be pretty silly to suggest otherwise. One last note:

Would the Patriots be in the Super Bowl every damn year if that didn't have as easy a path to the playoffs as they do by playing in the god awful AFC East? No, but I don't take anything away from them because of it.

This advantage hasn't helped the Texans or Luck's Colts. You've still got at least three straight games against legit competition to win it all.
 
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. Would the Patriots be in the Super Bowl every damn year if that didn't have as easy a path to the playoffs as they do by playing in the god awful AFC East? No, but I don't take anything away from them because of it.

.

Just to note.

Tom Brady vs. AFC East: 71-19, .789 Win Pct.
Tom Brady vs. everyone else: 113-36, .758 Win Pct.

Carry on with the 0-16 Giants discussion.
(When you lose on a 61 yard FG, your season may be snake bit. They won't go 0-16, but playoffs are pretty much history already).
 
Just to note.

Tom Brady vs. AFC East: 71-19, .789 Win Pct.
Tom Brady vs. everyone else: 113-36, .758 Win Pct.

Carry on with the 0-16 Giants discussion.
(When you lose on a 61 yard FG, your season may be snake bit. They won't go 0-16, but playoffs are pretty much history already).

To be fair, Brady has been uncommonly lucky that he hasn't had to face the Patriots in the playoffs ever.
 
I'm glad the whole NFC West is a dumpster fire this year. At least means there's a chance to sneak into the postseason. Offensive Line is the foundation of a good team and my guys have a nice turnstile going on.
 
Just to note.

Tom Brady vs. AFC East: 71-19, .789 Win Pct.
Tom Brady vs. everyone else: 113-36, .758 Win Pct.

Carry on with the 0-16 Giants discussion.
(When you lose on a 61 yard FG, your season may be snake bit. They won't go 0-16, but playoffs are pretty much history already).
The point was that everyone is lucky, and luck doesn't take anything away from their accomplishments.

Perhaps Mo Lewis or the tuck rule would have been better examples?

But if we're here, you would expect the inter-division win percentage to be worse due to familiarity, not better. This is in no way an insult to Brady or the Pats, and I think you're well aware of my feelings on what they've accomplished.

And fuck that kicker.
 
Offensive Line is the foundation of a good team and my guys have a nice turnstile going on.

How many teams out there are actually happy with their OL? Dallas, KC...anyone else? I would have said Oakland until yesterday.
 
How many teams out there are actually happy with their OL? Dallas, KC...anyone else? I would have said Oakland until yesterday.
When Kyle Long and Josh Sitton are healthy, I'm actually pretty happy with the Bears line.

We've actually got some good shit going for us but the big problem is that Mike Glennon isn't very good and he is throwing to what might be the worst Wide Receiver corps in NFL history.
 
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